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Psilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,120
Last seen: 10 hours, 19 minutes
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25]
#26999596 - 10/23/20 11:57 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hell, police cars have no seatbelts in the back seats, and neither do school buses... So I have examples now of Government forcing you not to protect yourself with seatbelts... You don't have a choice but to ride in a cop car, so you have no choice to wear a seatbelt.
Allot of states don’t require adults to wear seatbelts in the back . Why would want it in the police car if the law doesn’t require it ? Isn’t that kinda what you want ? I’m not even sure what your mad about but I recognize the irony of being pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt and then going to jail over a drug warrant , in the back of a cop car unbelted . That would be annoying it’s not a good reason to adopt anarchy though .
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
Posts: 329
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Psilynut2]
#26999623 - 10/23/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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No, I understand that what's legal is not always moral or right and visa versa. What if someone wants to wear a seatbelt in the back seat? Cops also arrest kids in schools and stuff, because that's the system we have now, I doubt they have special police cars for that.
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
Posts: 329
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25]
#26999626 - 10/23/20 12:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I want people to be free to make their own choices, not to follow their masters will to the T, you are misrepresenting my views now, as your own. I don't want redundant laws. I don't want a Mommy Government as Liberals do and I don't want a Daddy Government like Republicans do. All Government infringes on freedom and creates the same type of criminal empire you're all so afraid of Anarchy creating.
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,498
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25] 4
#27000031 - 10/23/20 04:24 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
STPLSD25 said: Freedom doesn't mean you're only "free" to make good decisions. That's not really freedom. You're only free if you're free to make all choices, even bad ones.
Whose freedom are we talking about? Yours? If that's all we're worried about, then it's easy. If, however, we're talking about maximizing freedom for everyone, then you're going to have to have a little less freedom. This is true, because your freedom to murder me is in direct contradiction to my freedom not to be murdered by you.
That's the purpose of law. It isn't to restrict freedom. It is to maximize freedom for everyone. Now, we can argue that some laws fail to do that and/or have the opposite effect, but to make blanket statements that drug laws or traffic laws are a restriction on freedom isn't necessarily useful. Any specific law may or may not result in an overall increase or decrease in freedom, but you can't really support the notion that every drug law or every traffic law does.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,498
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Psilynut2]
#27000035 - 10/23/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said:
Quote:
Hell, police cars have no seatbelts in the back seats, and neither do school buses... So I have examples now of Government forcing you not to protect yourself with seatbelts... You don't have a choice but to ride in a cop car, so you have no choice to wear a seatbelt.
Allot of states don’t require adults to wear seatbelts in the back . Why would want it in the police car if the law doesn’t require it ? Isn’t that kinda what you want ? I’m not even sure what your mad about but I recognize the irony of being pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt and then going to jail over a drug warrant , in the back of a cop car unbelted . That would be annoying it’s not a good reason to adopt anarchy though .
Every police car I ever had the misfortune of riding in had belts and shoulder straps in the back, and the officers always buckled me in.
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
Posts: 329
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Enlil]
#27000239 - 10/23/20 06:38 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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So. let's give one group of men the "authority" to rape, kidnap, kill and steal so that people don't rape, kidnap, kill and steal. Sound logic there.
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 20 days
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25] 1
#27000252 - 10/23/20 06:44 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
STPLSD25 said: So. let's give one group of men the "authority" to rape, kidnap, kill and steal so that people don't rape, kidnap, kill and steal. Sound logic there.
at least in theory, that's not how its supposed to work. While there's been some level of corruption (often extensive) in any government we've conceived, I think Enlil's point stands that in order to have ensure some level of freedom, we need to suppress certain behaviors.
The fact we haven't realized a perfect system doesn't mean we have to throw up our hands and say "OK, freedom now just means whoever has the most guns (produced under the previous stable system) gets to live
In order to do that you will need some level of government -although you don't necessarily need a state- but in my opinion, even if we had anarchy, we would still have governments.
It's absurd to think that you could have billions of humans living without government. Not only would it not work, it isn't even possible, humans will form governments, if left to their own devices. That is after all, how this all started
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
Posts: 329
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25]
#27000254 - 10/23/20 06:46 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Every drug law does indeed infringe on your freedom. The greater good is a poor excuse when so many are victimized over nonviolent "crimes."
The Government does not and can not protect people from themselves, again, laws do not change behavior... Do you know a single person that said "No, I can't hit that joint! It's against the law!!!" No? Well, rapists and murderers don't think that way either. People sick enough to perpetrate violent acts will do it with or without a law against it, just like drug users.
Calling the cops and waiting 20 minutes to an hour, is not going to protect you from bad people... And certainly, bad people (Government) wont defend you from bad people... Cops usually escalate violence, if and when they finally show up..
Besides that, the actual definition of terrorism is UNOFFICIAL political violence, but OFFICIAL political violence, well, that's just A-OK
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,498
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25] 2
#27000277 - 10/23/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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STPLSD25 said: So. let's give one group of men the "authority" to rape, kidnap, kill and steal so that people don't rape, kidnap, kill and steal. Sound logic there.
Sounds like shit you're making up.
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
Posts: 329
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Ezuma]
#27000302 - 10/23/20 07:12 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ezuma said:
It's absurd to think that you could have billions of humans living without government. Not only would it not work, it isn't even possible, humans will form governments, if left to their own devices. That is after all, how this all started
I've travelled extensively throughout the country, and I have never once required a cop to do business or interact with anyone, including in NYC.. Now, I did walk in on a burglary, by myself. The cops were already called (by my friends who owned the place.) I walk in- no weapons, I think I maybe grabbed something little like a wood stick. I yell in "Who's in there?" this guys comes out with his hands up and says "My name's Danny" barefoot, he had kicked the back door in.. Had TV's and everything stashed around the side of the house. (which I find out later.) Anyway, I tell him to wait that the cops were on their way, and although he looked like he wanted to run, he didn't... I kept him there.. Anyway, cops get there, and do nothing at all about it. Turned out the guy worked for the slumlord/landlord, and the cops were powerless to do anything because of that. I have many more stories like that in NY, where a weapon would've protected me a million more than the cops, who do virtually nothing.
We are beyond needing people to rule us. Anarchy is the next step in the evolution of man. It's scare tactics to say that it would be worse.. "But without Government, who would break into the homes of EMT's and murder them?"
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
Posts: 329
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Enlil]
#27000317 - 10/23/20 07:22 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
STPLSD25 said: So. let's give one group of men the "authority" to rape, kidnap, kill and steal so that people don't rape, kidnap, kill and steal. Sound logic there.
Sounds like shit you're making up.
It'd really be nice if I was making it up, but no... Cops have stuck fingers in girls assholes looking for marijuana... That's rape.. Cops shot Breonna Taylor... And Devin Guildford... and sooo many others.. They steal under civil forfeiture laws, where if they so much as suspect property has been used in a crime they can steal it for their department. They stolen money that people have got from their parents to put a down payment on a house. You can be ignorant to what's going on if you want but don't accuse me of lying or "making shit up." Again, I'm from New York... Word is bond.
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,498
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25]
#27000327 - 10/23/20 07:27 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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You're just talking nonsense rhetoric though. When you are hyperbolic like that, you lose credibility.
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
Posts: 329
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Enlil]
#27000344 - 10/23/20 07:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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It was exaggerated by any means, it was literal. No hyperbole. I'm sure if some guy stuck a finger in your ass you would call it rape to.. Non consensual sexual contact is rape. It's only that people like you make exceptions for them (being government.) That's only one case btw, there's other actual cases of rape by police, and some truly disgusting ones.
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,498
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25]
#27000350 - 10/23/20 07:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, just bullshit. I'll save the energy for discussions with more rational people.
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,529
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25]
#27000351 - 10/23/20 07:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wouldn’t all rapes be considered disgusting acts? 🧐
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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 10 months, 20 days
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25] 1
#27000353 - 10/23/20 07:38 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
STPLSD25 said:
Quote:
Ezuma said:
It's absurd to think that you could have billions of humans living without government. Not only would it not work, it isn't even possible, humans will form governments, if left to their own devices. That is after all, how this all started
I've travelled extensively throughout the country, and I have never once required a cop to do business or interact with anyone, including in NYC.. Now, I did walk in on a burglary, by myself. The cops were already called (by my friends who owned the place.) I walk in- no weapons, I think I maybe grabbed something little like a wood stick. I yell in "Who's in there?" this guys comes out with his hands up and says "My name's Danny" barefoot, he had kicked the back door in.. Had TV's and everything stashed around the side of the house. (which I find out later.) Anyway, I tell him to wait that the cops were on their way, and although he looked like he wanted to run, he didn't... I kept him there.. Anyway, cops get there, and do nothing at all about it. Turned out the guy worked for the slumlord/landlord, and the cops were powerless to do anything because of that. I have many more stories like that in NY, where a weapon would've protected me a million more than the cops, who do virtually nothing.
We are beyond needing people to rule us. Anarchy is the next step in the evolution of man. It's scare tactics to say that it would be worse.. "But without Government, who would break into the homes of EMT's and murder them?"
I didn't say anything about cops or their effectiveness.
The social order maintained in part by government direction is a more subtle thing than simply being limited to the physical force exerted by officers. The very fact we have roads, health and safety standards, regulated electrics, public utilities, hospitals... so many aspects of society work to establish and maintain a semblance of order, beyond coercion and violence. Again, I didn't say we need the current version of states in order to have civilization, but I do think, no matter what political ideology is espoused, people will form governments, of some form (this is necessary on some level, whether its local governments in a broader coalition of self-determining counties or a top-down state, there will always be governments.
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
Posts: 329
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25]
#27000370 - 10/23/20 07:51 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I see why you're so offended now, Enlil,you make your living off the law and all.
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,498
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25]
#27000373 - 10/23/20 07:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Offended? Bored, maybe.
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
Posts: 329
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Ezuma]
#27000386 - 10/23/20 08:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Local and tribal hierarchies though are usually based on things like merit and courage, and people function better in smaller tribal settings. I don't know if that really represents a Government as we know them today.. That is to say, I think in a small tribal classless area a "Government" is possible, but being that Government today means taking the hard earned money of 313 million people and using that money to control and extort them... That Government, does not work.
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
Posts: 329
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Enlil]
#27000387 - 10/23/20 08:07 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Offended? Bored, maybe.
Oh, come on! Usually someone trying to put you out of a job is going to offend you. It's nothing personal though, I just see the State for the violent mafia it is.
“To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be placed under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality.” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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