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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25] 1
#26988647 - 10/16/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I agree that the state has a monopoly on violence, and I think that's a problem. However, I think comparing our present situation to the wild west is leaving out a lot of significant details. For example, assault rifles weren't available back in the wild west, making a mass shooting in a church, school, or theater far less likely to occur. My point is: the government isn't the only thing that changed over the years when it comes to violence.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Psilynut2
Stranger

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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25]
#26988650 - 10/16/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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If there are no police how will you go on vacation ? Are your neighbors going to shoot people for you ?
Edited by Psilynut2 (10/16/20 03:28 PM)
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Psilynut2]
#26988744 - 10/16/20 04:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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My neighbors probably would. But, there are other means of home defense as well, including cameras and in NY, they fence off closed stores anyway...It's more efficient then the cops evidentially in actually STOPPING the crime from occurring in the first place.
It seems like you guys don't really know what cops actually do.. You seem to be accepting the fictionalization that they're just out catching bad people... No, they are out harassing,arresting, raping and stealing from people over drug use... America has the most overcrowded prisons in the entire world.. HALF of the ENTIRE WORLDS prison population- and over half of those individuals are nonviolent drug users like all of you.
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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STPLSD25
Shaman


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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25]
#26988751 - 10/16/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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IE
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Kryptos
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25]
#26988767 - 10/16/20 04:12 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was just thinking...in a society with no social contract, there would be no laws against booby traps. We would be one stray cat poking around in one very overprotective individual's house while they're away from your city block turning into Baghdad.
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Psilynut2
Stranger

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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25]
#26988773 - 10/16/20 04:14 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
It seems like you guys don't really know what cops actually do.. You seem to be accepting the fictionalization that they're just out catching bad people...
There’s plenty of video evidence to support that they are .
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Psilynut2
Stranger

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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Psilynut2]
#26988806 - 10/16/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
But, there are other means of home defense as well, including cameras and in NY, they fence off closed stores anyway...It's more efficient then the cops evidentially in actually STOPPING the crime from occurring in the first place.
Those things only work because it’s slows criminals down long enough for cops to show up . If no one comes what’s to stop me ? I have shit in my garage that will easily cut a hole in that door . I have battery powered shit that will make that door irrelevant.
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Tulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,109
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25] 3
#26988840 - 10/16/20 04:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
STPLSD25 said: My neighbors probably would. But, there are other means of home defense as well, including cameras and in NY, they fence off closed stores anyway...It's more efficient then the cops evidentially in actually STOPPING the crime from occurring in the first place.
It seems like you guys don't really know what cops actually do.. You seem to be accepting the fictionalization that they're just out catching bad people... No, they are out harassing,arresting, raping and stealing from people over drug use... America has the most overcrowded prisons in the entire world.. HALF of the ENTIRE WORLDS prison population- and over half of those individuals are nonviolent drug users like all of you.
You don't seem to understand the function of police in this country. Police aren't here to " stop crimes.". Rather they function as the enforcers of the judicial side. They facilitate and maintain the system as courts see fit.
Protect and serve is a myth that a minority of departments actually believe in or strive for. Not far-off from the myth of *pulling up your bootstraps." It's propaganda.
Channel your anger and frustration in less directions and in a more productive manner than spouting generalized anti-government buzz-phrases any college sophomore may be rattling off.
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STPLSD25
Shaman


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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Tulipslave]
#26988901 - 10/16/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Avtually, no, because I had a friend whose house got robbed in NY, and the cops didn't want to do a damn thing. So, they're not some heroes running around stopping crimes. As a matter of fact, whereas you show 1 video of cops allegedly catching the bad guy, there are COUNTLESS videos of cops killing innocent, including mentally ill 16 year olds for having a knife.. Besides that, any teenager or black person who lives south of the mason dixon line can tell you cops spend their days harassing them for drugs, searching their cars and persons, and exercising their fictional "Authority" arbitrarily
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Tulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,109
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25] 1
#26988903 - 10/16/20 05:27 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
STPLSD25 said: Avtually, no, because I had a friend whose house got robbed in NY, and the cops didn't want to do a damn thing. So, they're not some heroes running around stopping crimes. As a matter of fact, whereas you show 1 video of cops allegedly catching the bad guy, there are COUNTLESS videos of cops killing innocent, including mentally ill 16 year olds for having a knife.. Besides that, any teenager or black person who lives south of the mason dixon line can tell youd cops spend their days harassing them for drugs, searching their cars and persons, and exercising their fictional "Authority" arbitrarily
Please re-read my words, as you did not understand them if this was your reply.
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STPLSD25
Shaman


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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Tulipslave]
#26989659 - 10/17/20 07:03 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Idk how that replied to you, I was talking to the poster just before you. Government is a violent mafia, therefore it is only appropriate to take Government as a whole, not break it into tyrannical sections. The Police only enforce the arbitrary will of the State for money... We all need money to survive, and many times cops think they're doing the right thing... In other words, cops are victims of the Capitalist power structure like all of us are.. It is politicians and Government who pass laws, like the Drug War, which are solely made to go after dissidents and make the Prison industrial complex loads of money. There are structural problems that can't be resolved through police reform or "changing it from the inside." As long as prison labor is cheaper than free labor, the drug war, and by extension, our over populated revolving door prisons will exist. Furthermore, any time you give one group of men the "authority" to kill, steal, rape, rob, extort and kidnap, you can bet dollars to donuts they will abuse that power. That is to say, the Government is the problem.
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
Posts: 329
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Tulipslave]
#26989674 - 10/17/20 07:19 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tulipslave said:
Please re-read my words, as you did not understand them if this was your reply.
Tulip... In your opinion,how does Government take an immoral action and turn it into a moral one?
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Tulipslave
Homo sapiens sapiens, lol

Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,109
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25] 1
#26989730 - 10/17/20 08:32 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
STPLSD25 said:
Quote:
Tulipslave said:
Please re-read my words, as you did not understand them if this was your reply.
Tulip... In your opinion,how does Government take an immoral action and turn it into a moral one?
I don't hold delusions over inherent morality and right\wrong. Morality is up to the individual to figure out for themselves. "What's right with one is wrong with another" - Pete Seeger, "All Mixed Up"
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Tulipslave]
#26990288 - 10/17/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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But you would likely agree murder, rape and, theft are immoral, and presumably don't practice them (since you're here talking to me..) So if it is immoral as an individual, how is it okay to vote for people to institute such oppression?
I think your answer is really more of a deflection than an answer. I thought you would use a typical "Greater Good" excuse or something, but instead you just say there's no such thing as morality. There is a general consensus though of what is moral, immoral and even amoral, the people who have different opinions are probably the sociopaths you are all so scared of, you put them in charge to protect you from them... Yeeeaaaahhhhh, and you accuse ME of "delusions."
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25] 2
#26990396 - 10/17/20 05:27 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
STPLSD25 said: but instead you just say there's no such thing as morality.
I don't think that's a very fair representation of Tulip's argument.
He didn't argue that "there is no such thing as morality." He said that morality is up to the individual to figure out for themselves. In other words: he's arguing for the case that morality is subjective, rather than objective. Subjective morality is a significantly less controversial position, philosophically, than the absurd claim that morality doesn't exist.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Kyngwhatt
presbyter


Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 272
Loc: The pharcyde
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25] 1
#26996440 - 10/21/20 01:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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if you don't know about Mark Passio he advocates for natural law and the end of slavery, exactly what you are talking about i agree with you 100 percent.check his lectures out and his website at whatonearthishappening.com
love and respect
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Whatt
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
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Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
#26999462 - 10/23/20 10:45 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
STPLSD25 said: but instead you just say there's no such thing as morality.
I don't think that's a very fair representation of Tulip's argument.
He didn't argue that "there is no such thing as morality." He said that morality is up to the individual to figure out for themselves. In other words: he's arguing for the case that morality is subjective, rather than objective. Subjective morality is a significantly less controversial position, philosophically, than the absurd claim that morality doesn't exist.
I apologize if I misrepresented his argument. Perhaps I was a bit too black-and-white. But my counter-argument still stands that there is a general consensus of morality... Just because some sociopath might think rape and murder is okay, doesn't mean the general public will or does. My solution to revolving door prisons is instant death for the active perpetrators in violent crimes and the abolishment of nonviolent "crimes" (Drug crimes and silly laws to extort money)and I think this would actually build a far safer society than giving one group of men the authority to kill, steal, rape and hope they can "solve" the crime after it occurred, while also making people wear their seatbelt, harassing teens and blacks to find drugs, fill the prisons for the prison industrial complex etc etc etc...
The thing is, we've tried things the Governments way, and it has been an utter failure.
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Psilynut2
Stranger

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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25] 1
#26999515 - 10/23/20 11:07 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Making people wear their seatbelts saves lives . It will keep you from leaving your vehicle and flying into mine like a ballistic missile . The seatbelt thing hasn’t been a failure at all . Can you demonstrate how it has ?
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
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Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: Psilynut2]
#26999534 - 10/23/20 11:16 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Freedom doesn't mean you're only "free" to make good decisions. That's not really freedom. You're only free if you're free to make all choices, even bad ones. Pulling people over ticketing them (many times leading to illegal searches or other harassment) isn't what makes people wear their seatbelt. Yes, wearing your seatbelt is a good healthy choice... Just as not doing drugs or smoking cigarettes, but freedom is the ability of one to decide for themselves what to put in their body, and also safety measures they wish to employ to protect their bodies.
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
Posts: 329
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The Government does NOT have a higher moral authority over your life than you do. [Re: STPLSD25]
#26999545 - 10/23/20 11:22 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't want to go flying into your car anymore than you want me to, but Government can't protect people from themselves. People still don't wear seatbelts, even with the threat of extortion, and many government agents get away with it anyway. I saw it firsthand when my cousin who is in the Coastguard got out of a seatbelt ticket in NYC just because she worked for the Government. Hell, police cars have no seatbelts in the back seats, and neither do school buses... So I have examples now of Government forcing you not to protect yourself with seatbelts... You don't have a choice but to ride in a cop car, so you have no choice to wear a seatbelt.
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi “It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!” ― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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