Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomCube.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleSmartattack
C'mon man
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,776
Loc: A thought
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Forrester]
    #26987316 - 10/15/20 03:41 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:

Whereas, people get contaminated grows all the time and freak out that their grow room / house is ruined from spore load.  'nam sayin?





To be clear. This is the only thing I'm really intending to target here. People can go all off the rails all they want and head down the rabbit hole of the intricacies of contamination. My hopes are to get into the ears of people who likely waste a shitload of time and resources "sanitizing" their air and workspace after a bad damn tub.

I used to be way more anal, and had more trich than when bombing my shit on purpose with the stuff. I can only conclude that I got better at making spawn and all the rest was not an actual variable all along. Or a small enough variable that my brainpower and time is better used on almost any other given aspect of cultivating.


--------------------
* Smarts videos :teacher:
* :thumbup: Planet of the APES:thumbup:
 
I'm a fungal white supremacist.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Smartattack]
    #26987338 - 10/15/20 03:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Smartattack said:
My hopes are to get into the ears of people who likely waste a shitload of time and resources "sanitizing" their air and workspace after a bad damn tub.




Eh... This statement below from earlier, brought to us by someone reading scientific research papers, has already done more to validate concerns with environmental contaminants than experiments like yours could ever do to invalidate them for reasons stated earlier, and we have other additional reasons to clean the air in mushroom cultivation anyway.

Quote:

Munchauzen said:
Just to add to this... trich will aerosolize mycelium particles along with the spores. In fact, there may be as much as 390 times the amount of mycelium versus spores in the air if you've got some green growing. And living fragments latch on and grow much more readily than spores. Just some additional info I was reading in the research paper "Fungal Fragments as Indoor Air Biocontaminates."




For sure though, getting better at making spawn and thoroughly sterilizing it is important. For a while I went on about trying to minimize my sterilizer cook times when using plastic containers for energy efficiency and learned pretty quickly not to by very much due to bacteria, and early on in learning cultivation if I didn't hydrate grains fully it practically wouldn't matter if I sterilized them for 2 hours. So yeah, getting spawn improved is definitely far far far more important than cleaning the air, and "wasting a shitload of time and resources sanitizing their air and workspace" wouldn't be the place to start, nor would most of those resources and efforts pay off anyway, like bleaching which only kills things on a smooth non-porous surface and actually kinda "feeds" mold otherwise.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePsicomb
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,662
Loc: the womb
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
    #26987369 - 10/15/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I feel like what smartattack is saying isnt out of the realm of possibility when speaking as a more universal truth rather than anecdote.  That's a pretty decent clandestine experiment imo. I perceive it as a testament to the contam resistance of coir/verm in conjunction with clean spawn, but mainly focusing on the spawn since I've seen people here have coir contam in buckets after a few weeks or so. 

Munch, I heard somewhere you used to grow in a barn or farmhouse or something? What kind of themes did you notice, if any, with contams there? I feel like that could also be some valuable information too

Also, what about certain molds being more powerful against clean myc than others? We are talking only about da green but i wonder certain molds that can consistently overpower a colonized clean tub


--------------------

When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


Edited by Psicomb (10/15/20 04:25 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMunchauzen
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,343
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Forrester]
    #26987427 - 10/15/20 05:22 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

Munchauzen said:
What would putting a chunk of green shit on a healthy sub do?  Cool to see for science I guess, but in practice who does that?






its just me thinking back to a thread yesterday of a cube farm that had pvc piping connected all the tubs. user claimed it was a contamination nightmare... and I was just thinking about all the mold mycelium that gets aerosolized and blown from one tub to another. I said something about putting a piece of moldy bread on a healthy tub would be bad news bears. just wanna see how well the cube myc holds up against the trich myc. i know that answer tbh, but ya.

I don't really subscribe to the sporeload issue as far as cube growing goes. I've traditionally let moldy tubs sit longer than I should and its never really affected anything. When I'm being lazy, I just move them out of the growing area and toss em in my laundry room.

My current theory is that the sporeload from mold isn't an issue, its the living mold itself. Its like when we see noobs cutting mold out of monos, then they act surprised when the mold shows up 1-2 days later in even greater fashion. We've always told ppl cutting the myc fragments it, which then colonizes subs super easy and goes to town.

From what I've been reading, you don't even have to cut it, just let it sporulate, and it'll send tons of fragments out into the air itself without any cutting. So perhaps this is why the salt method has been effective at keeping the mold from spreading too drastically. It prevents the airborne distribution of fragments.

I did bad in science, guys. And I'm super stoned right now. I hope this isn't all ridiculousness.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMunchauzen
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,343
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Psicomb]
    #26987431 - 10/15/20 05:24 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psicomvb said:
Munch, I heard somewhere you used to grow in a barn or farmhouse or something? What kind of themes did you notice, if any, with contams there? I feel like that could also be some valuable information too

Also, what about certain molds being more powerful against clean myc than others? We are talking only about da green but i wonder certain molds that can consistently overpower a colonized clean tub



:confused: naw not me. apartment dweller here.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOne of Us
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 1,140
Last seen: 25 days, 10 hours
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
    #26987433 - 10/15/20 05:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

Smartattack said:
My hopes are to get into the ears of people who likely waste a shitload of time and resources "sanitizing" their air and workspace after a bad damn tub.




Eh... This statement below from earlier, brought to us by someone reading scientific research papers, has already done more to validate concerns with environmental contaminants than experiments like yours could ever do to invalidate them for reasons stated earlier, and we have other additional reasons to clean the air in mushroom cultivation anyway.

Quote:

Munchauzen said:
Just to add to this... trich will aerosolize mycelium particles along with the spores. In fact, there may be as much as 390 times the amount of mycelium versus spores in the air if you've got some green growing. And living fragments latch on and grow much more readily than spores. Just some additional info I was reading in the research paper "Fungal Fragments as Indoor Air Biocontaminates."




For sure though, getting better at making spawn and thoroughly sterilizing it is important. For a while I went on about trying to minimize my sterilizer cook times when using plastic containers for energy efficiency and learned pretty quickly not to by very much due to bacteria, and early on in learning cultivation if I didn't hydrate grains fully it practically wouldn't matter if I sterilized them for 2 hours. So yeah, getting spawn improved is definitely far far far more important than cleaning the air, and "wasting a shitload of time and resources sanitizing their air and workspace" wouldn't be the place to start, nor would most of those resources and efforts pay off anyway, like bleaching which only kills things on a smooth non-porous surface and actually kinda "feeds" mold otherwise.





I don't  know if you can discount smartattacks (or the picture's) actual experimental data with the facts munch posted.

It reminds me of  the idea of theoretical yield vs percent yield in chemistry.  I'll explain:

If you are carrying out a particular chemical reaction, the theoretical yield is what you get when you balance a chemical reaction like you probably did in school. You look at the reactants and the atoms contained in them and determine that for x number of reactants you have the atoms needed to produce y amount of product. This looks good on paper but doesn't actually happen in the vast majority of cases. Many reactions won't occur at all. It is only when you actually carry out the reaction, that you learn the percent yield, that is, what percentage of the theoretical yield that will actually happen.

Munch showed that there is another reactant to consider. The aerosolized mycelium. But actually carrying out the experiment, as shown in the picture and smarts experience, we see that the aerosolized mycelium has little effect on the substrate. Does that make sense?

Experimental data is more valuable than theoretical data. You would assume that aerosolized mycelium would wreck havoc on a grow. Yet in actual practice, this is not the case.

Edit: Also, I don't believe the word trichoderma appears anywhere in the research paper mentioned


--------------------
LAGM 2021
LAGM 2020
Trade List


Edited by One of Us (10/15/20 05:31 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMunchauzen
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,343
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: One of Us]
    #26987451 - 10/15/20 05:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Well they looked at 3 different mold species and from what I gathered, all were aerosolizing. My own logic is that the sporulation is such an explosive event, it causes the fragmentation of the spore producing body and surrounding area. I'm trying to find some microscope footage of sporulation right now.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMunchauzen
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,343
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Munchauzen]
    #26987457 - 10/15/20 05:47 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

btw I found that article just last week cause I helped my friend move a fishtank to a new stand after it had leaked a little bit. The old wooden stand had a towel between it and the tank. I lifted the towel a little bit, and saw nothing but mold mycelium. and the towel was all kinds of greens, browns, and blacks. Also of note, is that my friend has been having increased asthma issues in the past few months as well. was pretty shocked to see the tidbit about mycelium getting airborne at up to 320 times the amount of spores and how that has health effects.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Munchauzen]
    #26987503 - 10/15/20 06:38 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

It says "In contrast to spores, the release of fragments from smooth surfaces was not affected by air velocity, indicating a different release mechanism."

I found the research as well just a bit ago and posted it in the other thread, I'll put it here too
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC126767/


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePsicomb
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,662
Loc: the womb
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Munchauzen]
    #26987507 - 10/15/20 06:41 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Ah shit my bad, I thought you grew in some ancient farmhouse or something haha I wonder who I am thinking of now ???


--------------------

When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMunchauzen
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,343
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Psicomb]
    #26987513 - 10/15/20 06:47 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

oh sweet thanks I hadn't had the chance to read over it to well, just pulled it up on my phone after moving that fish tank last week trying to prove a point 

different release mechanism :takingnotes:


Edited by Munchauzen (10/15/20 06:56 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSmartattack
C'mon man
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,776
Loc: A thought
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
    #26987589 - 10/15/20 07:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

Smartattack said:
My hopes are to get into the ears of people who likely waste a shitload of time and resources "sanitizing" their air and workspace after a bad damn tub.




Eh... This statement below from earlier, brought to us by someone reading scientific research papers, has already done more to validate concerns with environmental contaminants than experiments like yours could ever do to invalidate them for reasons stated earlier, and we have other additional reasons to clean the air in mushroom cultivation anyway.

Quote:

Munchauzen said:
Just to add to this... trich will aerosolize mycelium particles along with the spores. In fact, there may be as much as 390 times the amount of mycelium versus spores in the air if you've got some green growing. And living fragments latch on and grow much more readily than spores. Just some additional info I was reading in the research paper "Fungal Fragments as Indoor Air Biocontaminates."




For sure though, getting better at making spawn and thoroughly sterilizing it is important. For a while I went on about trying to minimize my sterilizer cook times when using plastic containers for energy efficiency and learned pretty quickly not to by very much due to bacteria, and early on in learning cultivation if I didn't hydrate grains fully it practically wouldn't matter if I sterilized them for 2 hours. So yeah, getting spawn improved is definitely far far far more important than cleaning the air, and "wasting a shitload of time and resources sanitizing their air and workspace" wouldn't be the place to start, nor would most of those resources and efforts pay off anyway, like bleaching which only kills things on a smooth non-porous surface and actually kinda "feeds" mold otherwise.





Im at ease in being on the side of the fence Im on, given the whole proving a negative conundrum. If presence of trich in the grow space is an issue, luckily the burden of proof is on those who state so.


--------------------
* Smarts videos :teacher:
* :thumbup: Planet of the APES:thumbup:
 
I'm a fungal white supremacist.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesmalltalk_canceled
Babnik
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/13/20
Posts: 2,872
Last seen: 21 hours, 55 minutes
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Smartattack]
    #26987628 - 10/15/20 08:32 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

am i supposed to read this and think that its okay to leave molding tubs inside?


Edited by smalltalk_canceled (10/15/20 08:34 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOne of Us
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 1,140
Last seen: 25 days, 10 hours
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: smalltalk_canceled]
    #26987633 - 10/15/20 08:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

No, you are supposed to take away that, if your tubs are always failing, its probably not spores in the air causing it


--------------------
LAGM 2021
LAGM 2020
Trade List


Edited by One of Us (10/15/20 08:38 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: smalltalk_canceled]
    #26987636 - 10/15/20 08:38 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Smartattack said:
Im at ease in being on the side of the fence Im on, given the whole proving a negative conundrum. If presence of trich in the grow space is an issue, luckily the burden of proof is on those who state so.




Well between the work of scientists and professional mushroom farmers, that hasn't appeared very difficult for us to do, not that anonymous forum randos will necessarily take note accordingly.

So that's what "proving the negative" means now? Herm.
In a paper called "You Can Prove a Negative," which I just googled again to find was written by Steven D. Hales, he explains how "you can't prove a negative" is a principle of folk logic, not actual logic.
I won't get much into it myself, but at least note that "you can't prove a negative" is itself a negative, so if it were true it would itself be unprovable.

Anyways, rather it's not having substrates near contams also contam that doesn't "prove the negative" in the way I believe you meant it. Something not happening in a thousand incidents of anecdotal experience won't prove it can't happen in the next much less in a different scenario entirely.

But I suppose whenever your knee-jerk reaction to seeing contamination is "bad spawn, I'm never wrong" then you can always easily convince yourself that opposing evidence is supporting evidence.

Especially when the nature of your initial contam is in question in the first place....



"Then after successfully harvesting a few tubs, I let the remnants go green."

Oh they went green did they :sherlock:
no second flush or anything? one blow-out and then came the green?
I wonder if that might be worth noting otherwise or if it can just stay in the pile with the rest of the confirmation biases.


Besides, the best solution to suppress the successes of environmental contams is frequent air exchange and occasional humidity fluctuations, as outlined by Stamets in GGMM and as known by, like, every real cultivator worth more salt than forum randos that let their grow space get disgusting and still manage to grow Cubensis of all things.  It seems from your OP you're doing those things just fine, so if anything you're indicating that environmental contam problems can often be dealt with simply via good technique, not that they are never a problem.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


Edited by Violet (10/15/20 08:46 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOne of Us
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 1,140
Last seen: 25 days, 10 hours
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
    #26987650 - 10/15/20 08:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said: so if anything you're indicating that environmental contam problems can be dealt with via good technique, not that they are never a problem.




Exactly what I've been saying. I don't think anyone is saying different. If you have a problem, you need to fix your sterile technique or grain prep or choice in cultures. Filtering the air won't help much for tubs that contam before flushing


--------------------
LAGM 2021
LAGM 2020
Trade List


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSmartattack
C'mon man
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,776
Loc: A thought
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet] * 1
    #26987656 - 10/15/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Ok. Perhaps the proof of negative isn't the best way to put it. What I was getting at is that if somebody says that lots of sporeload does make a difference then the burden is on them to prove that the spawn was truly clean in the first place.


My best analogy would be something like this. If I say that walking into the ocean makes you wet, and I then walk in and back out of the water - returning wet, you would be wise to ask me to prove that I was not wet before I went in. However If I stated that going into the ocean will not make me wet, and i come out dry, There is no point in me proving whether I was dry or not prior to doing so. Had I been dry before, the ocean did not change that fact, and had I been wet, it only proves my position even further. Ill assume that's clear as mud  :lol:


--------------------
* Smarts videos :teacher:
* :thumbup: Planet of the APES:thumbup:
 
I'm a fungal white supremacist.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Smartattack]
    #26987701 - 10/15/20 09:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

One of Us said:
Quote:

Violet said: so if anything you're indicating that environmental contam problems can be dealt with via good technique, not that they are never a problem.




Exactly what I've been saying. I don't think anyone is saying different. If you have a problem, you need to fix your sterile technique or grain prep or choice in cultures. Filtering the air won't help much for tubs that contam before flushing




Maybe not quite exactly what you've been saying.
I had a problem where "fixing" my sterile technique, grain prep, and choice in cultures was not the solution.
I had to eliminate open-air spawning and the colonization of substrates in unclean environments (both of which meant no monos) to eliminate colonization contams, as well as make a point to increase airflow and program humidity drops in my greenhouses as per Stamets to reduce surface contaminations in fruiting. It helped a ton at least; it was the first thing that really did.

That's closer to what I meant by "good technique" (many of my posts are so long because I have come to regret times I under-explain myself in the interest of staying brief).
Not the everyday meaning it's meant around here of doing the basics correctly, but rather the process of providing conditions that help push back against specific problems you're having, with the intent to express that OP might as well be thought of as having unknowingly simultaneously stifled the problem he was trying to see existed.  Someone who wasn't treating their grow room the same way but didn't have a bloom of mold contams until one initially hung around in the grow environment might take the effect of environmental contaminations more seriously and find things like constant fans running as a solution, a solution OP implemented before experiencing the problem that it could help solve, therefore personally minimizing his belief in the problem itself due to that experience.


Tho it's true that running a flow hood in the area didn't really improve my issue enough to be happy, so just like in the other thread I'm definitely not saying filtering air is THE solution to end all.
But even then you won't get me to say that reducing environmental contams doesn't.... reduce the threat... of environmental contams...

And I cannot emphasize enough how different environments could possibly change everything. The disparity that will appear on this topic between people living in Siberia and Brazil may be huge. Just for one instance, if you have a 90% ambient humidity you can't really create the humidity drops I mentioned above that would kill surface mold before they establish themselves, and you might end up thinking an environmental contamination is a bigger issue than some North American bro that runs a fan constantly and thinks his outcome means clean spawn is more than just the thing of initial importance but the magic to the whole shebang top to bottom.


I don't exactly have my finger to the pulse of all the factors I might bring much less all the ones that might exist, but absolutely neither do people who think threads like this "prove" conclusions like this.


Besides, "healthy spawn = healthy tubs" is assuming all other factors are perfect too. "Healthy spawn + properly prepared substrate + well-tuned conditions = healthy tubs" is at least infinitely closer to the truth in a complicated world like this one.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


Edited by Violet (10/15/20 10:13 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOne of Us
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 1,140
Last seen: 25 days, 10 hours
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
    #26987722 - 10/15/20 10:08 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

But what you are describing is just dialing in your fruiting chamber to your environment. Evaporation (humidity drops) is a pinning trigger and is emphasized in every modern mono tek. If you live in Brazil, increase FAE to encourage evaporation, maybe point a fan towards the tub in extreme cases.  If you live in Siberia close up some holes to slow too much evaporation and the drying of your substrate. Standard stuff.

As for the first part of your post, look at josex's (former?) situation. He said his aerial spore count in his area was so high he couldn't use an SAB in the traditional sense, at least not at acceptable success levels.  Check out his LC lids, they are remarkable. But the point is, once he had clean spawn, he had no problems spawning in open air. Despite the extra steps he had to take to get the clean spawn.


--------------------
LAGM 2021
LAGM 2020
Trade List


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleViolet
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: One of Us]
    #26987769 - 10/15/20 11:13 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Na yo, you're still trying really hard to corral me into what you mean.  Please hear me when I say I'm trying to draw a clear distinction.
Maybe SOME of what I described could be read and reworded as "dialing in your fruiting chamber" to not reflect my intents, but doing the things that this forum usually means by that are not what solved my problem, as I described.

What you just talked about is meant as a "pinning trigger" not a "mold inhibitor" and they're on two totally different levels.
That "pinning trigger" (in quotes bc I've gotten into a share of these kinds of talks about those too) is actually as simple as something like cutting the bag open or opening the lid/removing hole tape for the first time etc.. "Pinning trigger" evaporation happens even at incredibly high humidity - it takes full on fog-like saturation to stop it, and even hyphal knots really don't mind that since they're incredibly vulnerable to drying yet at the first place that drying would occur. If the humidity is high enough to where those knots are at 99%+ humidity anyway, they can't much tell the difference between that and what would otherwise remain their humid microclimate that's caused by the substrate's own moisture ***slowly*** evaporating.

Whereas I mean something of a whole other degree when I refer to "humidity drops." I'm talking blowing air at below 70% humidity into my chamber for relatively long periods of time where you would absolutely be worrying about the tiny pins of Cubensis. When I do this, essentially every surface in my chamber dries (which is actually pretty frickin nice btw). I never do what I'm referring to during pinning (except for shiitake) at least without a specific reason and being wary of the consequences. It's not something I'd dare recommend to Cubensis home growers *at all* unless they had major issues and were prepared to dry out and flatten their pinning surfaces while they're learning what to do.



Like what you said about josex, I was never less than frustrated beyond belief with SABs and considering my experiences overall I bet josex's reason certainly applied to me too. I learned quickly that both for personal tolerance and to start getting any consistent success I had to go sterile airflow.

Though switching to sterile airflow to run away from environmental contams in clean techniques IS a bit more similar in comparison to how I eliminated all open-air spawning/colonization by sterile inoculating and colonizing heat-treated substrates inside the containers they were heat treated in, that actually validates me too, because he had to delete a whole aspect of cultivation that is *supposedly* perfectly effective regardless of environmental contams, because it wasn't as perfectly effective in his experience as so many here here assert....

Yet even I wouldn't be so bold as to blame my SAB failures on just heavy environmental contams like that!, so honestly that makes me surprised that josex isn't at least a teensie weensie bit more open to environmental contams causing problems on vulnerable subs he incidentally doesn't experience for one reason or another. Once again I suspect it's mostly a product of this environment.

meowjinx said: "if we could all, as a community acknowledge that this is a functional approach that we take because it works extremely well, then I wouldn't have bothered to comment in this thread at all. But one side of the "debate" was being unfairly ridiculed because what was once a general rule of thumb has practically become a dogmatic pillar of truth and as long as you parrot this truth you're allowed to be as toxic as you want"

Just like he aggressively asserts that the problem with environmental contams is unequivocally the sole fault of the cultivator's spawn, I could choose to refute his excuse and say that he simply didn't know what he was doing and something like sterile airflow made up for his shortcoming so that he could pretend like it didn't exist. In fact, I might actually go ahead and say so just because he was a dick to some people in a way didn't warrant it. Fair turnaround? No matter whether you have ten or a trillion spores in there, they'll all settle to the bottom, right? Or now are we willing to admit that *more* spores (and especially airborne live mold now apparently) might cause *more* problems?


Didn't expect to spend so much time on the forum today and honestly I'm tired of it already, so don't be surprised if I don't pop back up too soon


Edited by Violet (10/15/20 11:53 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* trich and muchies are almost done myCo_psyCo 879 1 09/07/05 01:31 PM
by MAIA
* The use of salt in fighting trichoderma mold
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Hippie3 66,319 86 03/01/23 08:28 PM
by 6The6Despised6One
* Local environment questions SchrodingersDog 612 1 03/05/02 02:50 PM
by puscle
* what kind of contamination is this ? (PIC) ragadinks 2,187 6 12/22/03 06:03 PM
by ragadinks
* Trich is Rediculous, and Everywhere! c_mathimatics 1,874 3 06/20/03 04:34 PM
by MAIA
* A few thoughts/questions on contaminants... trendalM 1,492 3 03/06/02 07:16 PM
by CynicalMagician
* Spore production from contaminated cakes. Slipstream 1,768 4 12/29/03 08:06 AM
by MAIA
* First time casing, small dark green fuzzy spots...trich? LSDilocybin 2,028 3 09/29/05 02:43 AM
by LSDilocybin

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
2,809 topic views. 31 members, 220 guests and 42 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 14 queries.