|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
LC Testing + Grow Log 1
#26987240 - 10/15/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I'll try to update this grow log frequently with pics of different LC's and pics of the colonization process of grain and cakes and finally I'll be posting pics of the fruiting results to see if there can be established a clear connection between successful grows and the 'clean look' appearance of the LC broths used.
I started off with this broth made from 0.1% LME and inoculated with an agar wedge on Oct 1st. I will call this the 'Master LC' and here's the looks of it as it was finishing on Oct 10th.

On October 12th this Master was aspired into syringes and used to inoculate 12 new broths via Ship's with 1ml each. (except one qt har that was injected with 5ml) I used nine 250ml jars containing 100ml broth and three qt jars containing 300ml broth. These new broths were made of 0.05% LME and this is of the qt jars 48h after being inoculated with 1ml Master. Before and a after a swirl.
 
On Oct 12th 9 rye jars we're also each one inoculated with 5ml through the SHIP. This is the look of a 72h recovery in 3 of the jars that weren't shook upon inoculation.
  
For this experiment I'm incubating both LC's and jars at around 28C (82f). The reson for this is that I want as prolific growth of potential nasties as possible to easier/sooner be able to detect their presence. Idk what anyone else thinks of this approach I'm open to hearing opinions about perceived pros/cons but for now this is how I'm going about it.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 24 days, 16 hours
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#26987245 - 10/15/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
|
Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Forrester]
#26987279 - 10/15/20 03:14 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
That's a nice recovery on grain man. I'll be monitoring this shit!
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Josex]
#26987301 - 10/15/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
|
Day 5 offers some interesting observations. I notice turbidity in some of the jars and to varying degrees. Upon inspecting these two jars I observed some turbidity in both, and IMO broth on the left seems slightly more turbid.

Here I compare both of those LC's to a sterilized broth that wasn't inoculated and that doesnt display any turbidity.
 
Here is another couple of LC's that appear to show the same thing, namely the broth on the left being slightly more turbid.

And here they are compared to the sterile broth
 
Here is a broth in which I couldn't notice any turbidity. Pics of that LC before and after a swirl.
 
And here is that LC compared to the sterile broth

The coming days will reveal more clearly what's going on with these LC's and I believe that when I start testing these on agar and grain in a few days it will both be easier to make predictions about the outcome as well as results ending in more definite conclusions. (Or not lol)
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 24 days, 16 hours
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#26989532 - 10/17/20 04:05 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
So just to make sure I understand correctly what's going on here...
The (inoculated) jars that you're showing next to each other where one is more clear than the other - those were all inoculated the same and there's no (known) difference other than their appearance at this time, correct?
And you're eventually going to run them across agar to see if there's any contamination showing?
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Forrester]
#26989580 - 10/17/20 04:56 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Forrester said: So just to make sure I understand correctly what's going on here... The (inoculated) jars that you're showing next to each other where one is more clear than the other - those were all inoculated the same and there's no (known) difference other than their appearance at this time, correct?
All 12 broths are the same 0.05% LME broth. 9 of these are 250ml jars and 3 of them are 'qt' jars. All 9 of the 250ml jars and 2 of the qt jars were inoculated with 1ml of Master except for one of the qt jars which was inoculated with 5ml of Master to see how growth rate would be affected. After only a couple of days of incubation there was no longer any noticeable difference in myc mass between that one qt jar that was inoculated with 5ml and the other two qt jars that were injected with 1ml. The 250ml jars are these with the flat, angled, segmented body

And the qt jars in the pics are the ones with a round body (two of the three qt jars are identical with the one uninoculated jar (the sterile broth) these jars have the writing 'mason' on them) and the one 'odd' qt jar is identical to the grain qt jars in these pics. I hope this provides clarity!
So to answer your question fully, in this one here comparison pic that I posted earlier depicts one of the qt jar LC's that was inoculated with 5ml and the other one that was inoculated with 1ml. This is the only variable that breaks the consistency of the parameters but for the purpose of this experiment this variable shouldn't really affect the assessment of this experiment since we're mainly focusing on identifying turbidity, the varience of turbidity between LC's and comparison to the sterile broth which acts as the 'control' jar in this case. These are the two qt jars mentioned that were inoculated with 1ml and 5ml tho from this pic I don't remember which is which, but that shouldn't matter.

Quote:
And you're eventually going to run them across agar to see if there's any contamination showing?
Yes, I will run tests on two types of agar, LME and GWA as well as on rye qt jars and 1/2 pint Oatmeal-Coir cakes.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
Edited by Mateja (10/17/20 05:01 AM)
|
Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 24 days, 16 hours
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#26989582 - 10/17/20 04:59 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Ok cool that clears it up a bit. I was mostly just making sure there was no difference in method that made the more and less clear jars
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Forrester] 1
#26989591 - 10/17/20 05:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Well actually not all of the jars were inoculated with the same method. All of the qt jars and 6 of the 250ml jars were inoculated through the SHIP and 3 of the 250ml jars were inoculated by lifting the lid and injecting through the opening. I also purposefully inoculated some jars more sloppy than others. All of this was done to try to create some variance that would hopefully result in some jars getting clean inoculation and some jars getting contaminated upon inoculation so that I'm actually able to observe contaminating broths and compare them to clean ones
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 24 days, 16 hours
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#26989594 - 10/17/20 05:12 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Ah, ok, now that makes a difference. That's what I was looking for. Will be interested to see the results!
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Forrester]
#26989616 - 10/17/20 05:58 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Btw thanks for asking for clarifications, that helps this thread to be expressed more clearly, and also helps me to remember to include all the data from all the different tests going on in this experiment  So with that said here comes an update on the colonizing rye jars that were inoculated with the Master as well, and to further clarify all 9 jars were inoculated through the ship and 5 of them were shaken upon inoculation and 4 weren't. This also as an attempt to determine how possible contamination can be detected on grain that was shook upon inoculation vs grain that wasnt.
So on day 5 this is the look of two of the rye jars that weren't shaken upon inoculation.
 
This is the only one out of the 5 'shaken upon inoculation' jars that shows recovery at this moment.

And these are the three Oatmeal-Coir cakes that were inoculated with 5ml Master each with the standard PFTek inoculation procedure. They were inoculated on Oct 14th, 2 days after the broths and rye jars were inoculated. So this is how recovery looks on cakes on day 3.
 
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
eLeSDenes
Mycelium Expander




Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 955
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#26989665 - 10/17/20 07:09 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
what is the point of master LC? why not just make a new LC from wedges? I think it carries way more risk and does not take less time than dropping a wedge.
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: eLeSDenes]
#26989697 - 10/17/20 07:51 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
eLeSDenes said: what is the point of?
Basically is just an experiment testing if/how visual cues can be interpreted when it comes to determining quality of colonizing broths and substrates. In other words looking to see if there's a sure way to tell the quality of the sterile processes at all times and especially during production of inoculate. But to adress your question yes I could have used agar cultures as well to inoculate the broths, it wouldn't matter so much in this case, tho I probably will continue this grow log indefinitely for now and will make many more broths which will even be inoculated with specific bacterial colonies that I have saved on plates. This will be an unusual grow log I guess with no clear plan of path, the insentive at least is to possibly debunk or confirm some widely debated topics. Like visual inspection of a LC for example.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
Edited by Mateja (10/17/20 07:53 AM)
|
BrownBear
Warrior-Traveler



Registered: 06/05/20
Posts: 1,539
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: eLeSDenes]
#26989706 - 10/17/20 08:02 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I am really digging this thread as I have always been a LC enthusiast. The grain test on shake vs no shake is really intersting also. I am excited to see how it all progresses.
|
eLeSDenes
Mycelium Expander




Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 955
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#26989735 - 10/17/20 08:37 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mateah said:
Quote:
eLeSDenes said: what is the point of?
Basically is just an experiment testing if/how visual cues can be interpreted when it comes to determining quality of colonizing broths and substrates. In other words looking to see if there's a sure way to tell the quality of the sterile processes at all times and especially during production of inoculate. But to adress your question yes I could have used agar cultures as well to inoculate the broths, it wouldn't matter so much in this case, tho I probably will continue this grow log indefinitely for now and will make many more broths which will even be inoculated with specific bacterial colonies that I have saved on plates. This will be an unusual grow log I guess with no clear plan of path, the insentive at least is to possibly debunk or confirm some widely debated topics. Like visual inspection of a LC for example.
Ahh cool man interesting. I am also using 0.1% LME to get really clear looking LC. I think clearness of LC is not an indication of being clean ( there is no bacteria in it). I had lots of super clean looking LC which somehow seemed to stall on grains after shake.
I am happy that someone else as well investigate this topic as LC's are super easy and fast. Interested to see your results and conclusions.
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: eLeSDenes]
#26989956 - 10/17/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I've been out of the game for a quick minute but I'm also really into Liquids. Me rikey this thread. It's maturing rather nicely. When i get back up and rainbow farming i'd love to do more exploring and documenting Liquids.
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 1 hour, 14 minutes
|
|
That rye growth is awesome.
I’m curious how the shaken vs not jars end up. When I shake mine up it seems to take forever to see recovery but then the whole jar goes off. By the looks of it the not shaken ones here are so far ahead they’ll definitely finish before the others.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: A.k.a] 1
#26990010 - 10/17/20 12:11 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I've found that shaking the grain jars nocced with LC really slows down the bounce back. I theorize that this is due to it being very vulnerable because it hasn't colonized anything that can protect it. I believe that you can shake grain and see it bounce back in a day or two because the myc INSIDE the grain remains undamaged and therefor bounces back. Where as the myc from the LC just gets beat to shit and has nowhere to hide.
To test this I did a batch in which i nocced up a bunch of masters with the same LC. Some i shook vigorously, some i rolled gently, and some i didn't shake at all. The shaken jars chilled with no growth for quite some time while the gently rolled jars exploded with growth all over in a few days. The jars left alone did what LC jars always do when everything is done right. The rolled and non shaken jars (which got shaken once the myc had colonized a good portion of the jar) colonized in about the same time.
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 1 hour, 14 minutes
|
|
I definitely agree about the internal colonization thing. Next time I’m gonna let it sit for 2-3 days and then shake it. There’s gotta be a sweet spot where the myc gets established enough that shaking will speed things up.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 24 days, 16 hours
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: A.k.a]
#26990117 - 10/17/20 01:47 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
That is very interesting about the shaking w/LC. I always shook my jars, looks like I'll have a new way to do it now
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Forrester]
#26990157 - 10/17/20 02:18 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: eLeSDenes]
#26991847 - 10/18/20 06:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
eLeSDenes said: I think clearness of LC is not an indication of being clean ( there is no bacteria in it.
To estimate bacterial growth in a liquid media, microbiologists measure the turbidity of the broth using a spectrophotometer. So basically how turbid a broth is, is directly related to the amount of bacterial cell mass present. But keep in mind that cell mass can mean both microbial activity and it can mean the presence of dead/inactive bacteria.
Quote:
eLeSDenes said: I had lots of super clean looking LC which somehow seemed to stall on grains after shake
Your definition of 'super clean looking' was probably not established by observing an identical but sterile broth side by side, thus making it very hard to determine if there was an increase in turbidity or not during incubation. And I really hope I don't sound like a Hitler or anything lol I only recently started to dive into reading research papers and lurking the microbiology forums. I started doing this as a way to better understand the science behind the concept we in MushCult call 'contamination'. I'm learning as I go, the way I phrase the scientific data in my posts may sound like I know alot more about it than I actually do so don't take my word blindly for anything, I encourage everyone to question everything and see for themselves as well. I'm not always right or always have the correct assessment of the sceicne so this thread should have all sorts of inquiries and healthy debates I hope.
Edited by Mateja (10/18/20 07:15 PM)
|
Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 24 days, 16 hours
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja] 1
#26992221 - 10/19/20 02:02 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
So it seems like you are saying that more turbidity/cloudiness indicates how much bacteria is present.
This could quite well be true, and likely is.
But let's just remember anytime anyone says "clearness of an LC does not prove it's clean", they are not refuting the above.
They are simply stating that just because an LC looks nice and clear to the human eye it is not proof that there isn't some small amount of bacteria in there. And we haven't begun discussing mold spores yet.
I think this is where we got into disagreement before, so I just wanted to clarify - to say that clearness of an LC does not prove it's 100% clean does not at all contradict what you're trying to show here, that turbidity is an indicator of bacterial presence. It only says that the human eye might not be able to detect a very small amount of turbidity. Say there's 100 bacterial cells that survived a PC cycle - you're not gonna see 100 cells. But when you transfer them onto grain, they will replicate.
Just wanted to clear that up.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Forrester] 1
#26992570 - 10/19/20 09:26 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Forrester said: just because an LC looks nice and clear to the human eye it is not proof that there isn't some small amount of bacteria in there.
I am totally with you in what you're trying to convey and theoretically your conclusion is very reasonable and I really wouldn't object to this statement at all per se. But from a couple of perspectives I also totally disagree with this. The first one being that if you are to introduce bacteria to a sterile broth it will occur upon inoculation due to insufficient sterile Tek. Or it could also be due to for example some thermophilic microbes surviving the sterilization process. But in the end no matter which type of bacterial contamination occurs it will nevertheless be present from the start and will thus have a sufficient incubation time to result in prolific growth causing obvious turbidity. I can't imagine a scenario where you would have no bacterial growth at all for the majority of the incubation period and only have healthy myc growth only to in the last day or last hours of finishing the successful LC to somehow suddenly introduce a bacterial colony to the broth that starts to grow but doesn't become visible because of the very short incubation time. I'm of course open to hearing and discussion such scenarios if you are thinking of some specific ones that are realistic.
Quote:
Forrester said: Say there's 100 bacterial cells that survived a PC cycle - you're not gonna see 100 cells. But when you transfer them onto grain, they will replicate.
This statement doesn't make sense to me either according to my current understanding of how bacterial colonies grow on a solid vs a liquid media. Considering the relatively high requirements bacteria has to sustain growth compared to molds, strickly speaking of the minimum levels of water activity needed, to assume that a bacterial activity would be able to hide or remain dormant in a liquid broth (optimal environment) and somehow still be able to grow prolifically on a solid media such as grain just isn't likely at all when considering the science behind how bacterial colonies spread. Even the most motile or osmophilic kinds of bacteria would still have an immensely bigger advantage in a liquid broth compared to for example overly wet grain. In fact a bacterial colony in a liquid media will almost certainly be able to reach logarithmic growth even if other growth conditions aren't optimal such as temperature. But on solid media (with high enough water activity) very motile bacteria (and some non motile) will definitely be able to grow to some extent until the dealing with the osmotic pressure eventually puts a 'limit' on the growth rate. As always I'm just stating my current understanding of the science behind this and much of everything is still not known to me on any kind of deeper level of understanding, and that is also the reason for this grow log to explore all of these possibilities and to discuss them thoroughly and to finally also be able to have some hard data and documents from this experiment to help us conclude what is actually what at the end. 
Quote:
and we haven't begun to discuss mold spores yet
I have many different thoughts considering mold in this discussion but I don't know at this moment what you're trying to say about mold spores so I'm all ears!
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
Last seen: 24 days, 16 hours
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#26993100 - 10/19/20 02:24 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mateah said: But in the end no matter which type of bacterial contamination occurs it will nevertheless be present from the start and will thus have a sufficient incubation time to result in prolific growth causing obvious turbidity.
This could very well be true. I just think it would take a lot more than a few jars and some agar tests to prove. There's a lot of different kinds of bacteria.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Forrester]
#26993493 - 10/19/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I just hope my predictions at least turn out to be in the general direction of truth, then it could mean that LC's will become a lot more practical/reliable to work with.
Also just finished sterilizing 8 new broths from rye boil water. 4 of the broths are rye water diluted with 9 parts water and the other 4 are diluted with 19 parts water. I also made 3 types of agar that I'll pour tonight. No rest for the wicked
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,274
Loc: where?
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#26993503 - 10/19/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: mushboy] 1
#27009586 - 10/29/20 02:51 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Some updates.
The rye jars inoculated with the master LC on the 12th are finishing up and they still look good

The oatmeal cakes inoculated with the master on 14th are also finishing

Here are some cakes inoculated on 24th with LC#2 looking good as well

Here are a couple of qt jars with the overcooked burst rye inoculated on 24th as well with LC#2 one shook and one not.
 
If we compare the overcooked rye with the 'normally prepped' one it's obvious that elevated water activity plays a huge roll. Both these pics were taken 5 days after inoculation.

-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#27013052 - 10/30/20 10:56 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
How it looked when I tested LC#1 and LC#2 on agar
LC#1
  
LC#2
 
Also I noticed this really broad outer ring when LC cultures grow on agar

-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#27013075 - 10/30/20 11:09 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I've seen that too. Not only from LC though.
|
trippleblack
Stranger

Registered: 12/01/19
Posts: 355
Last seen: 23 hours, 40 minutes
|
|
a assumed by now that ring around culture is micro-mycellium.. at one time i thought it could be bacteria riding under the mycellium but likely just paranoid.
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
|
Well since bacteria doesn't grow filaments I'd be hard to assume that the outer edges would be bacteria, myc on the other hand is filamentous in nature so it's only logical that it's myc especially when those thin filaments are coming out of something that's undeniably cube myc
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#27013137 - 10/31/20 12:31 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
First i saw it I was rather convinced that it was myc trying to make it's way through some nasty something. You know that super insecure noob feeling where you're just tripping ever living balls looking at cultures on agar. I did a lot of that.
|
SingularFusion


Registered: 10/31/18
Posts: 1,208
Last seen: 9 hours, 15 minutes
|
|
-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
|
CapMeh
RX Jazzist



Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 924
Loc: The Holy Mountain
Last seen: 2 months, 27 days
|
|
Thank you for your work!
|
mushhead
Potato Devourer



Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Dimension X-124
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: CapMeh]
#27019780 - 11/03/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
|
Tight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
Posts: 2,116
Last seen: 4 months, 7 days
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Forrester]
#27019843 - 11/03/20 04:47 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Forrester said:
It only says that the human eye might not be able to detect a very small amount of turbidity.
I've read somewhere that the human eye can't detect turbidity lower than 5 NTU.
-------------------- "it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings" The most useful tool for noobs
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
|
Updates
Originally 9 rye jars were inoculated with the Master LC. 3 jars were lost early to different types of mold, honestly I cant really make sense of the contamination I've been noticing, I just have to assume that the inoculate was clean and that my sterile tek was to blame. One jar sprouted something cobweb-like on top of the grain, looked like this:

And then there was this jar which looked fine after inoculation, it also recovered beautifully after the first shake and then after the other shake I notice green sporulation from every single piece of grain.

Then there was one jar which sporulated green from one single spot at the bottom of the jar. This jar wasn't shook upon inoculation making this scenario all the more weird.
Anyhow 6 rye jars made it to spawning the other day. At this stage all of the jars had been shaken 2-3 times each and this last recovery (a few days before spawning) looked as healthy as all the previous ones did. (to my eyes at least, this looks like healthy recovery after multiple shakes. But if anyone sees something I don't then please chime in)

A few days after spawning I noticed that one of the subs wasn't recovering all that well, and when I went to check on it I was met with a smell that would make your eyes water, like the worst smelling cheese in the world gone sour + death. And also there's this other sub that has a single green sporulating grain on the surface, I'm leaving this tub for observation.
This is the look of the 4 subs that seem to be "healthy" day 5 after spawn.
   
And the sour cheese and green mold
 
If anyone has an idea on why I'm seeing such huge variety in the contamination characteristics from both colonizing jars and bulk subs please share
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#27025575 - 11/06/20 06:56 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
These two Rye/coir jars were also shaken two times each and one of them is obviously not recovering well post second shake while the other one seems to be doing good. This is how they looked on day 5 after inoculation (one shook one not)
 
And this is how they look right now, shook last time on Oct 31st.

-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#27025717 - 11/06/20 08:40 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
How do you feel about the last two pics?
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
|
Here is an update, snapped this pic just now.

To answer your question, I have mixed feelings about this pic left side looks doomed right side looks promising
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 1 hour, 14 minutes
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#27025804 - 11/06/20 09:37 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Maybe it’s a sterilization issue and something’s keeping the grain from being evenly heated.
That’s the only thing that I can think of unless you’re super cavalier about knocking them up.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: A.k.a]
#27025819 - 11/06/20 10:09 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Inoculate was the same for both (LC2) ejected from the same syringe even, 5ml into each. Lift the outer lid with one hand stab the SHIP that's on the inner lid with the other hand and place the outer lid back on. No wiping, no alcohol, no flaming the needle, all parts are sterile/pre-sterilized. I'm leaning towards the 'improbable' cause being a single contaminant spore manifesting itself out of thin air, landing on the needle tip and making it through the rubber ship and then going 'lunar surface module' off the needle tip onto the grain. It's either that or I'll have to evoke some even more improbable scenario.. At this point I don't even know what's wrong with that one jar, doesn't look like mold, of course I can't see bacteria they're microscopic like what else could have caused this sudden 'sickness' throughout the whole jars that fast?
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
Edited by Mateja (11/06/20 10:31 PM)
|
D3_Myc
Weeb Trash



Registered: 05/06/18
Posts: 4,399
Loc: Year Zero
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#27025831 - 11/06/20 10:26 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
How long do you pc your grain for? I had issues at an 1.25hr and had to up it to 2 hours.
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: D3_Myc]
#27025858 - 11/06/20 10:59 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Funny you'd ask. I was actually up all night probing and testing temps inside the Presto and inside the rye jars and to my surprise the heat transfer onto the center of the jars was much more efficient than I had anticipated. I'm fairly confident in being able to achieve effective sterilization cycle in less than an hour on a powerful stove. The temperature inside the centre of the grain jar seems to be lagging a mere minute behind the core temperature of the pressurized boiling water/steam. I had multiple remote control meat thermometers measuring the temperature of both the steam inside the vessel and the centre of the grain jars at all times.
I was mostly interested in how fast the lag time was between ambient temp inside the vessle and the centre of the grain jar and to my amazement it was very quick.
Quote:
D3monic said: How long do you pc your grain for? I had issues at an 1.25hr and had to up it to 2 hours.
If you're operating on a stove with a lacking output or you have vessle that's not air tight or is in other ways ineffective then you should probably measure all the dynamics in detail so that you know for sure if you need to prolong the sterilization cycle or not.
Sterilizing grain takes only 15min, but getting to 121C may take 30 or 90 minutes depending on how effective/ineffective the stove/PC is. Imma be doing some more measurements later today and I'll try to document as well.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#27025870 - 11/06/20 11:15 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
How did you get the probes in? What psi did you test at? How did you get the probes into the jars without allowing steam into the jars? If you didn't (and you may have already thunk of this) the test is invalid as the steam would be reaching places it normally can not. Glad you did the tests though. I love this shit.
|
Psilosion

Registered: 03/23/17
Posts: 485
|
|
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
|
Quote:
verum subsequentis said: How did you get the probes in? What psi did you test at? How did you get the probes into the jars without allowing steam into the jars?
 
 
 
I threaded the probes through the 'safety vent' (after first removing the black over-pressure rubber plug and then placing it back) I measured how effectively heat was being generated and transferred inside and outside of the jars and I checked to see if the temperatures read corresponded with the pressure indicated (it did) So yeah, 3D physical reality working just fine here in Europe and thermodynamics were exactly as advertised by human science  The jar lids remained sealed and steam wasn't leaking in any direction. Tho the rubber plug in the safety vent wasn't able to seal completely and contributed to somewhat prolonged pressure buildup but nothing too crazy, Ive had a lot slower pressure buildup in the past when I was using portable heat plates.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



Registered: 03/22/16
Posts: 8,732
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#27026044 - 11/07/20 03:00 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
great answer. Fuckin nice work
|
dfwerydfhg
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/20
Posts: 194
|
|
Death curves for a lot of stuff indicate a need for far longer than 15 min at 121 °C to get to anything you could call sterile. I don't know what usually lurks in grain, just saying 15 mins seems real short.
But great experiment, now do the one where you don't vent the air properly!
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: dfwerydfhg]
#27026715 - 11/07/20 12:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dfwerydfhg said: Death curves for a lot of stuff indicate a need for far longer than 15 min at 121 °C to get to anything you could call sterile

Nothing survives 15min at 121C that's just bacis microbiology as far as I'm aware, only reason why we run a PC cycle for 90min is to guarantee that temperatures of >121C has permiated throughout the entire substrate that we're sterilizing and then of course to keep that temperature for approximately 15min to ensure sterilization. It's also the reason why the sterilization cycle for liquid mediums is very short because the heat transfer in liquids is instantaneous!
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#27026750 - 11/07/20 12:34 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Can't wait for you to run a full circle... from firmly believing what you are saying right now, to doing all the experiments you want to try and prove your right, to failing and blaming something else and finally slowly but surely realizing why so many cultivators and mushroom farms go to such great lengths to destroy endospores. It's gonna be beautiful when that happens. You need less experiments and theories and more actually experiencing.
You really must think you're the woke one to whom the TRUTH is revealed and the rest of us are just asleep sheep following the herd. It's incredibly dumb to disregard all the body of knowledge from experienced and intelligent people regarding this issue.
I'm sending you some shit grain.
15 minutes...
Edited by Josex (11/07/20 12:48 PM)
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Psilosion]
#27026755 - 11/07/20 12:36 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Also I made 2 different batches of oatmeal cakes, one that was mixed with with coir that was hydrated 1brick+3L water and the other was made with coir that was hydrated 1brick+3.5L. I've done the same test with BRF cakes years ago when I first started growing so I kind of knew already that the more moist substrates will colonize faster but still feels reassuring to know for sure that it works for oatmeal-coir cakes as well.

-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
BrownBear
Warrior-Traveler



Registered: 06/05/20
Posts: 1,539
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#27026760 - 11/07/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
|
bit2ez
Stranger

Registered: 11/06/20
Posts: 25
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: BrownBear] 1
#27026850 - 11/07/20 01:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I am impressed by your ingenuity in temping your spawn jars. However, you are faced with having to explain what is physically being observed. Though flying in the face of basic microbiology, an adjustment has to be made to procedure and thinking. Your jars show bacterial and mold contamination, your LC doesn't and your technique for inoculating has a high success rate. The easiest thing to adjust is adding time to your sterilization cycle. You have hours of leeway until the grains start to caramelize / maillard.
|
Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: bit2ez]
#27026857 - 11/07/20 01:22 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
It's called biased blind.
|
sporecap
Shedding...

Registered: 07/30/18
Posts: 413
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Josex]
#27027038 - 11/07/20 03:13 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Awesome thread I guess you are in general right that it takes 15min at 121C for essentially everything to die. But you measured the temperature inside the jars, which still could be very different from the grain core temperature? To bring the PC up to 15psi takes quite a while because of the large heat capacity of water, even though it's very efficiently heated, being at the botton of the PC directly above the hot plate / flame of the stove. So I think it takes an awful lot longer until the steam has transferred enough energy into the grains such that the core, which is at least 60% water when hydrated, reaches 121C. Once I also got overconfident and thought 15min at 15psi is enough for agar, until I had to throw away 40 freshly poured plates due to contamination.
So what would be your verdict on shaking? I think I missed what happened to the two jars of which one was immediately shaken after inoculation while the other one was not.
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja] 1
#27027079 - 11/07/20 03:38 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mateah said:
Quote:
eLeSDenes said: I had lots of super clean looking LC which somehow seemed to stall on grains after shake
I really hope I don't sound like a Hitler or anything lol I only recently started to dive into reading research papers and lurking the microbiology forums. I started doing this as a way to better understand the science behind the concept we in MushCult call 'contamination'. I'm learning as I go, the way I phrase the scientific data in my posts may sound like I know alot more about it than I actually do so don't take my word blindly for anything, I encourage everyone to question everything and see for themselves as well. I'm not always right or always have the correct assessment of the sceicne so this thread should have all sorts of inquiries and healthy debates I hope.
I hope I won't feel like I need to explain myself on every page for why I choose to express myself in certain ways. Like for example if there arises an inquiry about sterilization times I will always refer to microbiology and their assessment of the 'basics' because it's the most straightforward approach. I'd be an imbecile to assume that an online magic mushroom forum could possibly know more about microorganisms than the global centuries old collected science of microbiology knows about the life of microbes. Now does this mean that I automatically assume that there's zero chance or possibility for the existence of a thermophile that can survive 15min at 121C inside grain just because '15min at 121C' is a 'general rule' used by microbiologists when they conduct their science? Of course not! But I sure as hell am not about to start 'muddying the water' on a clear as day science due to handful of anecdotal accounts from others (note that I'm still not trying to dispute anything or prove anyone wrong on anything) what got me into reading microbiology online discussion groups and forums in the first place was exactly this topic, I find it extremely intriguing and then the science on 'bacterial activity in liquid media=turbidity' is just something that for the moment has captured my curiosity and is what I currently spend most time on researching.
Let's put it this way, for me to suddenly change the way I express myself on the subjects regarding '15min 121C' I'd either need to for myself encounter this problem and have personal experience with it, or I'd need 100% proof and documentation from someone that has either isolated this thermophilic problem and identified it or I'd need to somehow myself have it confirmed that the grower experiencing this problem beyond doubt can demonstrate that this is something that can be replicated by anyone at anytime and thus I'd replicate what has been encountered to prove for myself that it holds merit. And during the time (like right now) that I don't have sufficient data/evidence for the existence of this phenomena I will still not in any way trick myself I to believing that what I currently know is 100% indisputable, how I choose to express myself does not reflect any kind of 'absolute truth' that I think I'm holding, its just for all practical purposes a way I choose to express myself as to not personally add further in muddying the water with 'ghosts' that I have zero scientific explanations for and that seemingly go against rigid centuries old science.
One thing tho should always be perfectly clear to anyone who encounters me on this forum or anywhere else for that matter and it's that I value intellectual integrity and intellectual honesty above anything else, I wholeheartedly dispise parroting, talking about stuff I have zero experience with or anything that goes against science, common sense and reason. Does this mean that I look down on posters who share information about how to construct a flow hood even tho they have never seen a flow hood with their own eyes? Of course not! So many of us have amazing and effective communication/pedagogical skills and ability to teach others. This is a very important/necessary part of this forum and any science for that matter.
Personally I choose not to instruct others on how to sterilize or inoculate bags, not because I wouldn't know what to tell them but because If someone should say something against my instructions or challenge something I had said then I wouldn't feel comfortable in the situation, especially if the situation was reflective of me being positive about saying all the right things but just practically can not back it up by anything from personal experience while someone who I feel is in the wrong actually DOES have personal experience, then I'd be devastated quite frankly and I'd feel once again that the only thing I'm doing is muddying the waters. As said, different folks different strokes, I don't look down on anyone for the way chose to live their life and how they choose to be of assistance to this community, I'll always respect their opinions and views up to a point, but naturally there's no way that I'll take someone serious if he/she starts arguing with me about something I know lots about when the perdon arguing in reality actually doesn't know what he/she is talking about due to lack of personal experience. That's why I'd never get into ARGUMENT with anyone over 'hopelessly thermo-bacterial grain' since I don't have the perspective they have. I might question some facts, refer to own opinions, envoke science at times but at the end of the day I'll never make definitive statements about the subject and never pretent that I'm disproving something or someone when I possess no data whatsoever qualified for having absolute opinions or definitive statements
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja] 1
#27027083 - 11/07/20 03:40 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Fuck it I'm making a new rant video instead  Coming soon... REAAAAALLLL SOOOOOOO*cough cough cough*real soon. Coming real soon. Over.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
|
mushhead
Potato Devourer



Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Dimension X-124
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#27027459 - 11/07/20 07:30 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
|
Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: mushhead]
#27027466 - 11/07/20 07:35 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mushhead said:

-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
Edited by Mateja (11/07/20 07:36 PM)
|
Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Mateja]
#27029693 - 11/09/20 07:24 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Thermophilic bacteria? I don't know if you're purposely or inadvertently glossing over the fact that vegetative bacteria is not the issue, these are easily killed. We're trying to destroy endospores produced by bacteria of the bacillus genus. 
Endospores can and will survive a PC cycle. The degree in which this happens will depend on different variables such as type of grain, quaility of the grain, level of hydration, duration of the cycle, etc.
The surviving endospores will produce bacillus bacteria and these are responsible for the so called "wet spot" and that sweet smell in grain spawn reminiscent of rotting apples. It is also the most common contaminant in grain spawn, followed by bad inoculant and technique. How most people get this backwards these days? Beats me.
I could tell you lots of personal anecdotes that made it obvious for me that bacterial spores are very capable of surviving a PC cycle. But I'm but an individual and for all you know I could be biased to the brim. Think instead of the remarkable measures some spawn producers take in order to achieve true sterilization of the grain to supply to mushroom farms and all the anecdotal evidence from home cultivators around the world throughout the years. It's always been known that endospores can survive a PC cycle, but somehow that knowledge has gradually been swept under the rug like it never happened. Beats me too.
You're relying on what microbiology has to say about how vegetative organisms with metabolic activity can be killed, but they talk nothing about non metabolic bacterial spores that are protected from the lethal action of moist heat by things such as the starches, oils and proteins that are present in the grain.
Also this,
Quote:
bit2ez said: I am impressed by your ingenuity in temping your spawn jars. However, you are faced with having to explain what is physically being observed. Though flying in the face of basic microbiology, an adjustment has to be made to procedure and thinking. Your jars show bacterial and mold contamination, your LC doesn't and your technique for inoculating has a high success rate. The easiest thing to adjust is adding time to your sterilization cycle. You have hours of leeway until the grains start to caramelize / maillard.
You seem to want to do real science but when presented with something like this you'd rather look the other way. Real science is not biased like that.
|
D3_Myc
Weeb Trash



Registered: 05/06/18
Posts: 4,399
Loc: Year Zero
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Josex]
#27029722 - 11/09/20 07:47 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Josex, in your anecdotal experience is there any grain that reins supreme over the others in regards the above aforementioned? The wheat I get seems to be ever persistent with bacteria, usually not terrible, just a hint of sweet smell and rarely a damp grain or two. I stopped soaking over night and just boil till I can chop into it with a fingernail. I don’t know if cutting out the soak has helped or compounded the issue.
|
Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: D3_Myc]
#27029735 - 11/09/20 07:58 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
D3monic said: Josex, in your anecdotal experience is there any grain that reins supreme over the others in regards the above aforementioned? The wheat I get seems to be ever persistent with bacteria, usually not terrible, just a hint of sweet smell and rarely a damp grain or two. I stopped soaking over night and just boil till I can chop into it with a fingernail. I don’t know if cutting out the soak has helped or compounded the issue.
Have you tried seed? Wbs, millet, etc. These are inherently cleaner. About soaking, all I can say is that I made the switch from boilling only to soaking and boilling, and will never go back to boilling without soaking first. Your experience may vary I guess.
|
Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Josex]
#27029741 - 11/09/20 08:02 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
So you still boil millet afterwards to evaporate? Have you done soak only no boil? I want to be able to prep bulk grains without energy and heat.
|
Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
|
|
The only way I have been able to prep millet right is soaking with cold tap water, straining real quick until it stops dripping and then funnel it into jars wet, no boil at any step. But there are lots of people who do different preps, gotta find what works for you.
|
D3_Myc
Weeb Trash



Registered: 05/06/18
Posts: 4,399
Loc: Year Zero
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Josex]
#27029773 - 11/09/20 08:29 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I just bought a bag of white millet to try but haven’t ran it yet. It’s by the same producer of my wheat. Runs me about $4 more a bag which isn’t bad.
So cold soak (overnight?) and then strain and jar. I’ll give it a go next round.
|
mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,274
Loc: where?
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: D3_Myc]
#27029776 - 11/09/20 08:31 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Just like burdced
|
Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: D3_Myc]
#27029791 - 11/09/20 08:41 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
D3monic said: I just bought a bag of white millet to try but haven’t ran it yet. It’s by the same producer of my wheat. Runs me about $4 more a bag which isn’t bad.
So cold soak (overnight?) and then strain and jar. I’ll give it a go next round.
Just 4$ more than wheat? Fml I get 25 kilos of this stuff for 18 euros whereas I can get 40 kilos of (shit) wheat for 10.

Yea I like to soak for 24 hours but first I rinse the millet like 3 times to remove all the floaters.
|
Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: Josex]
#27029797 - 11/09/20 08:45 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Josex said: The only way I have been able to prep millet right is soaking with cold tap water, straining real quick until it stops dripping and then funnel it into jars wet, no boil at any step.
Perfect, thanks. This is exactly how I'd like to do it.
|
A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 16,782
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 1 hour, 14 minutes
|
|
I recently switched to a wbs that’s mostly millet, and now that I’m getting to the end of the bag it’s basically pure millet.
It doesn’t seem like it until you go to spawn a tub but a quart of millet is way more spawn than other stuff. It makes sense because it’s so small it packs together super tight. I’ve also had problems with bacteria recently so I think it takes slightly longer to completely sterilize too.
--------------------
LAGM2020     
|
Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
|
Re: LC Testing + Grow Log [Re: A.k.a]
#27029819 - 11/09/20 09:03 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I'll be running 4lb bags at 3.5 to 4 hours in the 75x.
|
|