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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 8 days, 8 hours
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26990981 - 10/18/20 04:16 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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plastic 55 gallon drums.. don't rust. And they work awesome for a steamer.
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
Edited by seagu (10/18/20 04:37 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: seagu]
#26991172 - 10/18/20 09:04 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I bet very few people have ever got a 220/240v shock in America. As RR said you'd have to touch BOTH hot lines. In europe it's another story. They're one conductor is 240v above ground. American 240 is considered safer by some compared to european 240 for that reason.
Teachers just know what they know. Its an old wives tale sort of thing. Ive never been blasted by 277 yet but i work on 480v three phase all the time. Apparently 277v shocks are nothing to be fucked with. I know of someone who died in a hospital replacing a balast
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: seagu]
#26991184 - 10/18/20 09:12 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
seagu said: plastic 55 gallon drums.. don't rust. And they work awesome for a steamer. 
They don't get soft and warp? I have a bunch of the blue food grade ones for rain barrels but HDPE gets soft and pliable above something like 160
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 8 days, 8 hours
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: bodhisatta]
#26991265 - 10/18/20 10:35 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
seagu said: plastic 55 gallon drums.. don't rust. And they work awesome for a steamer. 
They don't get soft and warp? I have a bunch of the blue food grade ones for rain barrels but HDPE gets soft and pliable above something like 160
I mistakenly thought that for years which is why I never tried it for the longest time. HDPE plastic barrels handle a sustained temperature of 230F. Which is well above Steamer temperature roughly 200 F or even 212F if you just go for a full boil and let it go. As the max temperature you will get is whatever temperature your water is and if you are boiling the water it is the Boiling Point of water temperature unless you put the barrel under pressure. So unless you put the barrel under pressure you are safe from melting the barrel. Need to make sure its properly grounded such as a stainless Steel rod touching the water or something like that on a GCFI. A White HDPE barrel is Awesome Sauce because you always know what your water level is. Love it.
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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King0fthajuice
Colors


Registered: 06/28/17
Posts: 325
Loc: Wild Like Volusia in the 80s
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26991285 - 10/18/20 10:50 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks OP for making this post, I love when I see this type of information being talked about. I have no idea whatsoever about grounding and wiring.
RoggerRabbit said to make sure to ground all big machines.
That's something I've been thinking about, my SafeAire Biological Safety Cabinet is 110v I believe (it plugs in your regular home outlet)
The thing is I'm using an extension cord to be able to turn it on, sometimes I get this faint feeling like I'm being electrocuted like there's a leak and it's going into the metal I'm working on.
I need to go and buy a heavy duty extension cord that I know is working properly.
And then I should research how to ground a machine properly. I'm going to be putting it on a metal stand and I don't want to get shocked.
Sorry for hijacking your post, I'm super stoked and will be making my drum sterilizer sooner then later I'm sure.
I don't know who's write-up I'm going to follow but I will make sure to post it on here so that others get to see the info, as well as anyone who drops knowledge.
Shroomsis, how much did your fancy element run you?
-------------------- I like rain Whether you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re right!
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
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Loc: Northeast USA
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: King0fthajuice]
#26991328 - 10/18/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
King0fthajuice said: The thing is I'm using an extension cord to be able to turn it on, sometimes I get this faint feeling like I'm being electrocuted like there's a leak and it's going into the metal I'm working on.
I need to go and buy a heavy duty extension cord that I know is working properly.
And then I should research how to ground a machine properly. I'm going to be putting it on a metal stand and I don't want to get shocked.
You can always buy a GFCI extension cord for extra safety if your extension cord doesn't have one. Although it isn't to be used in place of properly grounding a machine. Or is it? I dunno that much about electricity, SHROOMS or someone will correct me
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: seagu]
#26991354 - 10/18/20 11:37 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
seagu said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
seagu said: plastic 55 gallon drums.. don't rust. And they work awesome for a steamer. 
They don't get soft and warp? I have a bunch of the blue food grade ones for rain barrels but HDPE gets soft and pliable above something like 160
I mistakenly thought that for years which is why I never tried it for the longest time. HDPE plastic barrels handle a sustained temperature of 230F. Which is well above Steamer temperature roughly 200 F or even 212F if you just go for a full boil and let it go. As the max temperature you will get is whatever temperature your water is and if you are boiling the water it is the Boiling Point of water temperature unless you put the barrel under pressure. So unless you put the barrel under pressure you are safe from melting the barrel. Need to make sure its properly grounded such as a stainless Steel rod touching the water or something like that on a GCFI. A White HDPE barrel is Awesome Sauce because you always know what your water level is. Love it.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 8 days, 8 hours
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: bodhisatta]
#26991477 - 10/18/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
seagu said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
seagu said: plastic 55 gallon drums.. don't rust. And they work awesome for a steamer. 
They don't get soft and warp? I have a bunch of the blue food grade ones for rain barrels but HDPE gets soft and pliable above something like 160
I mistakenly thought that for years which is why I never tried it for the longest time. HDPE plastic barrels handle a sustained temperature of 230F. Which is well above Steamer temperature roughly 200 F or even 212F if you just go for a full boil and let it go. As the max temperature you will get is whatever temperature your water is and if you are boiling the water it is the Boiling Point of water temperature unless you put the barrel under pressure. So unless you put the barrel under pressure you are safe from melting the barrel. Need to make sure its properly grounded such as a stainless Steel rod touching the water or something like that on a GCFI. A White HDPE barrel is Awesome Sauce because you always know what your water level is. Love it.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Yea its kinda ironic that RR made an appearance on this thread and I mentioned the plastic barrel as he is the one that taught me all about it years back when I first made the HDPE barrel as a pasteurizer. He was the one that taught me all about needing to ground it and needing to ground it with a metal rod through the water( at the very least touching the water, but that a rod through the entire length of water would be safest). See the metal barrels normally provide the grounding, or should if hooked up correctly.
But here is the thing, people are talking about putting coatings and such on the metal to prevent rust, but they are not grounding the water that way if electricity is touching the water inside. So the ones using metal barrels really would need a grounding rod to the water too at that point if you follow, which I haven't seen people talking about or doing.
Oh and a Stainless steel rod is cheapo from home depot and stainless steel is one of the best grounding metals out there..
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,849
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: seagu]
#26991617 - 10/18/20 03:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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The element is connected to the outside of the drum so the element is the ground when you use a hot pod.
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 8 days, 8 hours
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26991653 - 10/18/20 03:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Correct, but unless all my previous conversations on this were wrong and/or I am completely remembering this wrong, that doesn't connect to inside. Water heaters are normally closed systems so nobody would be going to touch the water inside only water that leaked outside.
---furiously googles answer ...
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,849
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: seagu]
#26991663 - 10/18/20 03:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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the hot pod has a metal body that you connect the ground wire to this makes the outside of the element grounded. So if a wire shorts on the inside of the element it will touch the ground. The outside of the element is ground.
Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (10/18/20 03:58 PM)
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,849
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26991704 - 10/18/20 04:23 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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This could easily be hooked up wrong. So good job pointing this out
Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (10/18/20 04:39 PM)
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 8 days, 8 hours
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26991964 - 10/18/20 08:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Watch around 6:00-7:00. He explains grounding of elements and how they are not grounded. They get appliance grounded. Not the element. So it is not grounded to the inside like I was saying in my posts above. Which makes sense because the plate holding it would short circuit the element part since it is touching both sides. And then if you take a look at 7:40-8:10. He explains this further.
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
Posts: 952
Last seen: 8 days, 8 hours
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: seagu]
#26991999 - 10/18/20 08:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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So like I was saying all these metal drums really do need a grounding rod or SS bolt or something connected to the inside water that is grounded.
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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CubePusher
Stranger
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: seagu]
#26992017 - 10/18/20 08:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks for posting the HDPE info Seagu, that was my first thought when I thought about building a barrel steamer but I listened to and believed those saying it will warp.
Cool thread, I wanted to ask how a commercial style steam oven would work? There’s a natural gas 120V 1 phase unit going near me for super cheap.
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,849
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: seagu]
#26992034 - 10/18/20 09:13 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have talked to George personally on the phone and I have linked his videos many times on here. What you fail to realize is at around 14:15-14:30 of the video he states the ground is for safety. If you do not have a ground and there is a problem and you touch the drum guess what happens? YOU BECOME THE GROUND AND ELECTRICITY FLOWS THROUGH YOU TO GROUND!! That is how people get killed. Be safe use a hot pod and connect a ground. No, you do not have to have a ground for it to run and heat up. But to be safe you need a ground. Or you may kill yourself or someone you love.
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26992040 - 10/18/20 09:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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The ground runs through the hot pod to the element and everything is grounded. I agree it needs to be grounded. Before someone came up with the hot pod there was no easy way to ground it but with the hot pod, your element which is in the water is your ground. It actually grounds the drum the element and the water all at the same time...

Look at the pic and you will see how everything is grounded.
This is the hot pod I am talking about...
Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (10/18/20 09:35 PM)
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,849
Loc: Virginia, USA
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26992050 - 10/18/20 09:29 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Even a plastic drum Needs a ground, not just metal drums. If you have a short the water will get electrified and if you touch the water you have a problem.
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seagu

Registered: 03/03/18
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#26992282 - 10/19/20 04:44 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes I realize you don't have to have the ground. But what I am pointing out is that that water inside the tank isn't necessarily grounded just because the outside is grounded when putting all these complete coatings or a plastic barrel. So if there is a break of electricity inside the tank and you touch it pulling bags out or whatever. That won't be grounded and POOF .. Homer City.
Now if you think that is safe then by all means, like he said its all preference. As for me, I am going to urge on the side of caution.
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms



Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,849
Loc: Virginia, USA
Last seen: 2 days, 16 hours
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Re: Another 55 gallon drum sterilizer build [Re: seagu]
#26992587 - 10/19/20 09:36 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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So let me ask you a question what happens when a heating element shorts out?
I will explain this better to help you understand. Your heating element has a wire running through the center of the tube. The wire is insulated from touching the outside tube, usually by magnesium oxide or ceramic. The wire running through the center that is hooked up to the power has a resistance. This resistance is what causes the wire to heat up. If somehow the wire inside touches the outside tube the outside becomes electrified. The hot pod causes the entire outside of the element to be ground. So if the wire touches the outside tubing the breaker is tripped and you will not get power anymore...

In the pic, everything green has direct metal to metal contact. So obviously the outside of the drum is also grounded. Because the outside of the drum is not covered in silicone and has direct metal to metal contact with the element.
Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (10/19/20 09:44 AM)
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