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OfflineBrian77
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DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP!
    #26987161 - 10/15/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Hi - I attempted a DMT extraction using Mimosa Hostillis Root. My source:
https://catbull.com/alamut/Bibliothek/mimosa1dmtextraction.htm

Everything was going exactly according to plan until I hit the evaporation stage in the baking dish.  My solvent simply evaporated leaving no crystal structure behind.  I did keep the root bark solution in case there is a way to salvage this.  Any thoughts?


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #26987185 - 10/15/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

This thread was moved from The Pub.

Reason:
Belongs here.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26987194 - 10/15/20 02:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the move.  Really hoping i didnt waste the last month.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #26987209 - 10/15/20 02:38 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Its happened to me as well. My first extraction was about a 10-20% success based on the yield I got.

Since its your first time, it could be the technique you used. I like to the Thick Light Tek. Its pretty simple and yields some pretty good results.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26987237 - 10/15/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I think I used a very old method... i chose it because it was the most thorough.  Thick Light Tek?  Is there a link for this? TIA


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #26987244 - 10/15/20 02:51 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)



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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26987416 - 10/15/20 05:10 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

how much bark did you extract from? sounds like you did 1 pull on a small amount. If the naphtha is not saturated and your dish was too large and the fan evaporated it too quickly you wouldn't necessarily get crystals, especially if it wasn't a clean pull. you most likely had a thin film of oil on the surface of the dish and that's your yield if you could scrape it up.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Icon] * 1
    #26987592 - 10/15/20 08:00 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Started with 100g.  Should have been plenty. My process included acidifying with muriatic acid and defatting. Then removing the MHRB pulp prior to turning it into a base with Sodium Hydroxide (see link above) on complete method.    All i have left is a slick film on my tray after evaporation. So you are 100% correct. The yield should have been much higher.

I still have the bottom base solution I syphoned off the naptha from... Im wondering if i could try again with more Naptha.



Thoughts?


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #26987743 - 10/15/20 10:32 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Yield is about 1%, and it takes more than 1 pull to get that full yield. First pulls are often only like 30% of the total you can get, so you could estimate about 300mg per pull. Depending on how big your baking tray is, that's not a lot of yield for a lot of surface area. You probably only need about 50ml of naphtha for an extraction that small. You could do another pull and evaporate your naphtha down to 30ml and put it into a shotglass to concentrate whatever might show up. You could heat your jar in a crockpot first and keep it as warm as possible during the pull. Heat allows the naphtha to soak up more DMT. You could also try a freeze precipitation instead of evaporation. You'd heat the jar, do your warm pull, evaporate the pulled naphtha down to a shotglass and put it in the freezer. Cold naphtha can't keep DMT dissolved so after 12 hours you should have crystals if the bark is good and you didn't suck up lye with your naphtha.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #26987746 - 10/15/20 10:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, absolutely try again.

This time warm it up in a sink of water so it is warm to touch and only use ~50ml solvent. Turn the jar  end on end slowly for 5 minutes then let sit for 5 minutes, four times. Then pull.

Evaporate by half. If the solvent is not turning cloudy at this stage it is a fail.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Icon]
    #26987831 - 10/16/20 12:46 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icon said:
how much bark did you extract from? sounds like you did 1 pull on a small amount. If the naphtha is not saturated and your dish was too large and the fan evaporated it too quickly you wouldn't necessarily get crystals, especially if it wasn't a clean pull. you most likely had a thin film of oil on the surface of the dish and that's your yield if you could scrape it up.




Im guessing this question was for me. I think I used 100grams if I recall.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26988097 - 10/16/20 09:09 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks, friends.  I'll try again and report back.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! [Re: Brian77] * 1
    #26988522 - 10/16/20 01:57 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Nature boys STB tek, flawless. Works with powdered. 1st and only one I've ever or will ever use. 100g of MHRB, 1st pull.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Northerner]
    #27004156 - 10/26/20 08:23 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Yes, absolutely try again.

This time warm it up in a sink of water so it is warm to touch and only use ~50ml solvent. Turn the jar  end on end slowly for 5 minutes then let sit for 5 minutes, four times. Then pull.

Evaporate by half. If the solvent is not turning cloudy at this stage it is a fail.





Completed. Results are very minimal, but it is there.  Im guessing doing a third pull is not likely to accomplish anything better. But I do have a question: The pH is only about 9-10. Could I add more NaOH to raise the pH and try again, or should I just move on? 

If moving on, I have 100g of MHBR left (in bark form).  Should I use a method that utilizes whole bark or convert to powder and use Nomans or Nature Boy Tek?  I have a vitamix so converting to powder is not a problem. TIA.


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #27004183 - 10/26/20 08:50 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

A pH of 9 is a bit too low I'd say. 10 to 11 would be ideal to freebase 99% of the dmt.

I'd add more NaOH, wait an hour, then pull again. :shrug:

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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Pandemoon]
    #27004275 - 10/26/20 09:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Not much to lose at this point. I'll give it a go.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #27004912 - 10/26/20 03:53 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I'd push it up well past 11, even up to >12. I believe the freebase reaction completes at 10.7, if I have been informed correctly, but that is in a pure solution. Extra base certainly helps to break down the cells of the plant matter and release the alkaloids.

Nuke it man. 40g of lye per litre of mixture is my go to.

Powdered bark is the go to as well.

edit: or it may be 10.3 to freebase DMT completely, I'm not sure now. I always push it much higher than 11 so it's never been an issue. I just remember someone hacking at me for using lye and saying other bases with lower pH are fine. I said sodium carbonate should complete the reaction then as it's got ph10.7... so it must be 10.3 they were saying. Someone much more knowledgable than either of us chemistry wise commented something, I think it was about polarity, as to why lye is more effective than other bases for freebasing DMT. Aaaaanyhow, the take home was using lye at >ph11 was most effective with bark extractions.


Edited by Northerner (10/26/20 10:09 PM)


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #27005867 - 10/27/20 08:15 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
Nature boys STB tek, flawless. Works with powdered. 1st and only one I've ever or will ever use. 100g of MHRB, 1st pull.





Fkn A, Dude.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Northerner]
    #27006346 - 10/27/20 01:15 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I nuked it!  Naptha is yellow. Feeling optimistic!!!!


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #27006477 - 10/27/20 02:27 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Awesome man. :thumbup:

I remember now that thread. Sodium hydroxide has a greater ionic strength than other bases, which is what makes it so powerful. That is why some teks call for adding more salt, to further increase this value.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77] * 1
    #27006630 - 10/27/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Brian77 said:
I nuked it!  Naptha is yellow. Feeling optimistic!!!!



if you have yellow naptha, you'll get crystals.


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OfflineBrian77
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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Northerner]
    #27007728 - 10/28/20 07:10 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Ok so this is what we got after an overnight freeze.  I probably shouldn't be happy with this yield but I am because the first pulls were with Zippo (what a horrible recommendation that is). As noted earlier I was left with an oily film and got nothing. So, this is technically the result of the 3rd pull, but now at the proper pH.



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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #27007733 - 10/28/20 07:12 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

At least some nice crystals. Good job! :thumbup:

Living is learning. :heart:

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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Pandemoon]
    #27007757 - 10/28/20 07:27 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pandemoon said:
At least some nice crystals. Good job! :thumbup:

Living is learning. :heart:

-





True that, my Friend.  Thanks to all of you for the guidance.  Now....

I have 100g of MHRB left. I was going to attempt Nature Boy Tek. It's so simple, but I noticed it leaves out the acidifying stage that so many other Teks use. It just goes right to base.  I have muriatic acid. is it worth it to do the acid stage or ... stfu and stop over complicating it? :smile:


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #27007769 - 10/28/20 07:36 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

When I extract dmt from mhrb I literally just put the shredded bark in basic solution, add naphtha ontop, let stand overnight, stirr well, suck off the naphtha and let it evape.



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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Pandemoon]
    #27007809 - 10/28/20 07:57 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Well... damn... Thats basically nature boy tek... im all about not having to do extra steps like defatting and acidifying.  I will probably pulverize to powder though. I assume that would only help.

Also, recently had the epiphany that I can let mine sit overnight in the hot tub at 100 degrees :smile:


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Pandemoon]
    #27007888 - 10/28/20 08:51 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Pandemoon - Doesnt this method leave you with plant oils in the final product if you let it fully evaporate?


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #27007903 - 10/28/20 09:00 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Right.
If you scrape it all out of the dish it mixes evenly with the crystals making a powder that is slightly yellow.
No difference in effects though, I bet noone will notice a difference between 95% or 98% purty. :smirk:

Freeze precip for minimal contamination.

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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Pandemoon]
    #27007973 - 10/28/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Ah, got it. yeah i dont care either. Maybe we I can entertain the purity level conversation after I become an expert in the basics. Until then... time to pulverize some bark :rocket:


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77] * 1
    #27008141 - 10/28/20 11:17 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Nature boy tek all the way!


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #27009402 - 10/28/20 10:22 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Yesses!  :raveface:


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Northerner]
    #27009720 - 10/29/20 06:38 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Yesses!  :raveface:





Yes indeed, Northerner!!  Thank you for your help.  Nature Boy Tek is also now in process.  Gonna be a good couple of days.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #27009796 - 10/29/20 08:05 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

You're welcome.

You gonna have another crack at that one while your new soup is cooking? There's probably plenty left.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Northerner]
    #27009864 - 10/29/20 08:40 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah. Im running dual track right now.  I added 50ml more Naptha to the old one and let it sit in my hot tub over night at 100 degrees. I don't believe that is too warm. I read that you can go up to 122 degrees.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #27010544 - 10/29/20 02:30 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

It's not that there's any threat of the DMT breaking down at any temperature in a solution, and the solvent is already volatile, it's just that if the solvent is too warm for too long when in contact with the solution it will pick up all many tannins. That can lead to very dark orange spice that might taste pretty funky. It's easy enough to clean up but there are minor losses in that cleanup process.

I haven't tried to put a number on the temp or the duration that causes the issue but I've found that if it's warm to touch it's warm enough. Hot to touch is too hot. Not very sciency I know, more of a practical guideline.

Something I thought of, just looked up, is the boiling temp of naptha. It's a fractional boiling point between 30C and 90C. Which means in for us it starts boiling at 86F. The implications of that I'm unsure of, but it seems that if the molecules are busy shedding energy that energy has to go where. Might be what causes the heavy tannin leeching I was talking about.


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Northerner]
    #27010585 - 10/29/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm.. That is good stuff. That would lead me to believe the 100 degree water bath is too hot for long durations. Your science makes sense to me. I can experiment and if leeching becomes a problem we will have our answer. I wonder how much the base solution dilution mitigates any naptha fractional boiling.  At 600ml of water/base plus 100ml of naptha you're already at 6:1 not including the pulp. I have to think those boiling points would be for pure naptha and maybe as a mix it's closer to the base solution boiling point (whatever that is).


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #27010661 - 10/29/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

The naptha never really mixes with the solution though, it doesn't become one, it's like oil and water.

100ml of solvent for 600ml of solution is way too much. 50ml is plenty. I use 80-100ml of solvent on 2L of solution from 250g of bark. Think of it this way. 5g of DMT will easily dissolve into 20ml of warm naptha. The vast majority of that 5g will fall out of the solvent as crystal soon after it gets below 0C. To get out the remainder we would need to either evaporate the solvent down further or make it even colder for longer. So why would we dissolve 1g of spice in 100ml when the objective is to remove it?

You'll figure it out for yourself through trial and error though. It doesn't take long to get the hang of. It's not rocket science, even though it seems like it at first.  :lol:


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Northerner]
    #27010678 - 10/29/20 03:42 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Oh wow.. ok thats awesome stuff. This grasshopper definitely appreciates the guidance. The nature boy tek actually calls for 150 but I noted someone on this thread actually said to cut it to 100ml.  50ml it is!


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Re: DMT extraction Fail - Need HELP! (moved) [Re: Brian77]
    #27010769 - 10/29/20 04:29 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Try it for yourself though man, don't take my word on it.

I got a lot of advice from friendly chemists when I was starting out, but that was years ago and people develop better techniques and ideas over time. NB's tek was also written a long time ago.

What really counts is what you can make work for you.  :thumbup:


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