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OfflineSurfingmycelium
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Registered: 07/03/20
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Last seen: 1 year, 18 days
Agar questions
    #26986974 - 10/15/20 12:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Hey Guys,

  So I have a few questions about agar and hoped you could help. 

1)  I can’t find a big pressure cooker right now so I’ve been buying my agar pre poured online.  It’s getting expensive so I’m wondering if I should look into just making small amounts at a time in a smaller pressure cooker.  And maybe the no pour method.  Do you guys have any luck with this?

2)  Everything I have done with agar up to this point whether it be spore to agar, LC to agar or clone to agar it always gives me the fuzzy looking tomentose mycelium and never rhizomorphic.  I’ve did up to like 4 transfers and it’s always the same looking stuff.  Is this normal?  I always see pictures of this amazing looking mycelium from everyone on here and mine doesn’t look anything like that.  Could it be the agar I’m getting online?  I even bought off a site that specializes in this and the same thing happened. 

3)  I don’t have a flow hood or anything so I’m just doing my best with a SAB right now.  I’ve also been using bags since I can’t make my own quart jars.  I’ve just been buying the 3 pound grain bags online.  The first time I tried to go from agar to grain I cut the agar up in the plate and tried to quickly drop it in but it was very difficult to get out.  It just stuck to the plate.  I finally just got my scalpel and worked it out.  Then a lot of it just stuck to the inside of the bag.  I tried to flick it to the grain but it was like glued to it.  The whole thing was a disaster and it never colonized.  Even if it did I’m sure I would have had contamination issues. 

How much of the colonized agar do you actually have to put in?  I was thinking next time I’ll just cut off a little piece with my blade and drop it in.  I tried to put the whole plate in last time. 

Funny thing is, my first grow I knew nothing at all and just inoculated 2 bags with a MS syringe and put them into a 70 QT Monotub with manure substrate and the whole grow went pretty flawless. 

Now that I am learning more and getting into agar and trying to clone and use LC and all nothing is working.

Anyway, any help would be amazing!  I’m a noob and really want to get good at this the correct way.  Not just throw random spores in some grain and hope for the best.  Lol.


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Offlineverum subsequentis
seeker of truth
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Registered: 03/22/16
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Re: Agar questions [Re: Surfingmycelium]
    #26987008 - 10/15/20 12:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Go to wally world and grab a presto. They're cheap and get the job done just fine.

No pour agar works fine if you do it right but i prefer pouring.

"Fluffy" myc can be fine but i'd have to see pics to tell you what i think of yours. It's possible that the mix you're using is responsible. I like to mix my own and i use malt extract at 2%.

Agar to bags is generally frowned upon but i've never tried it. The reported issue is that it takes so long to colonize that things don't generally work out. It would depend on the size of the bag though. Even with a big bag I'm sure that it could work.

The more myc you put in the faster it'll colonize. Whether that myc be from agar, colonized grain or colonized liquid. Most folks try to avoid the edges of the plate because that's the most common place for contams to be lurking. Some folks give zero fucks and throw the whole plate in. I do not.


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Offlineredbee
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Registered: 03/30/20
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Re: Agar questions [Re: Surfingmycelium]
    #26987015 - 10/15/20 12:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

1) Small pressure cooker > no pressure cooker, for sure. I use a 6 qt Instant Pot for everything I do (though I'm running shoeboxes, not monos). For agar, my PC fits ~20 no-pours at a time (I use deli cup and Alien's style containers), I run 2-3 batches and then I'm set for quite a while. You could also fit several 250 mL pyrex media bottles instead, if you'd prefer to pour plates.

2) Yeah, probably. You don't know their ratios. When you pour yourself, aim for a ratio of 10g agar-agar : 7.5g LME : 500mL water, and you should start to see rhizo on some plates. Some varieties just don't go rhizo much at all (rusty whytes, for example), but that you've never seen rhizo makes me suspect the pre-made agar you've been using. I'll bet it's made with closer of a 1:1 ratio of agar and nutes, which doesn't promote rhizomatic growth.

And, for the rest of your questions, I'll defer to folks with more expertise... Good luck with everything! :mushroom2:


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:sporedrop:  redbee's LAGM 2021  :sporedrop:


Edited by redbee (10/15/20 12:47 PM)


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OfflineHikeadellic
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Registered: 08/31/20
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Re: Agar questions [Re: Surfingmycelium]
    #26987043 - 10/15/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

1) You can succeed in making agar with out a PC as per Bod's comprehensive agar tek. Basically make your agar then sterilize it in pot with a lid filled with water on a stovetop for at least 45 mins. I find those little airplane liquor bottles to work.

2) Tomentoes doesn't necessarily mean bad genetics. People have observed that the same culture can switch between the two growths based on its needs. Not sure why it always happens for you but maybe someone else with more experience can chime in.

3) Figure out a way to make jars ASAP, this hobby can be very DIY. If you want something done right you gotta do it yourself. A big plastic box with two circles cut out for your hands is all the SAB you'll need, no fancy stuff required. When cutting agar, try getting the scalpel under the wedge you are cutting to kinda flick it out. For agar to jar, it is recommended to shake the jar so the agar gets mixed in with the grain. Not sure if you can do the same with bags but maybe you can.

3lbs is a lot of spawn, the smaller the vessel, the easier it is to colonize. I'd rather have lots of small vessels then one big one. Don't want all your eggs in one basket.

The amount of agar you add effects the speed of colonization so you need to find a sweet spot for how much grain you are using compared to how fast the contams move. You want your agar culture to outrun the contams by alot. One agar dish can be used to inoculate 10 jars. You could technically get a hundred jars but it would take a lot longer and have a higher fail rate. 6 is good for fast colonization.

If you are unable to do jars for whatever reason I would just stick to your original mss to grain tek and hope for the best. You could also try the PF/BRF tek. Maybe get multiple of those projects going at the same time to hold you over until you can get the upgrade. Make as many spore prints as possible as per Bod's easy AF spore printing tek. Keep reading new stuff, lots and lots of info on this website. Good Luck!


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Offlinehazyhorse
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Registered: 03/19/19
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Re: Agar questions [Re: Hikeadellic]
    #26987075 - 10/15/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

just to add to the small PC dialogue... i use a 6qt presto. if you’re not trying to grow pounds at a time, you can make it work. like others said, look into smaller plates for no pours. if you use the holy grail containers you can easily fit like 16 in there. i also use it for grains!! it’s not ideal, but by using regular mouth pint jars instead of quarts, i can PC two quarts (4 pint jars) at a time. i usually use 1 quart per shoebox, so if you’re running smaller set ups it’s perfect. even if you are trying to grow a lot, it’s easy to do a few batches of jars over a weekend. if a 6qt is all you have access to, use one!!

also for fluffy (tomentose) growth on agar, it’s completely normal. ver mentioned pics to verify which is obviously the best way to tell, but it just being fluffy in general is completely fine. i run into tomentose growth on agar like 85% of the time. it’s rarer that i run into that thick rhizomorphic growth you see in agar porn. may be the way i make agar, could be genetic. i don’t care because it all results in mushies


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OfflineSurfingmycelium
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Registered: 07/03/20
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Last seen: 1 year, 18 days
Re: Agar questions [Re: hazyhorse] * 1
    #26987248 - 10/15/20 02:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for all the info!  I think I’m going to pick a presto up!


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: Agar questions [Re: Surfingmycelium]
    #26987443 - 10/15/20 05:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

you should


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InvisibleSir Pentinite
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Re: Agar questions [Re: hazyhorse]
    #26987598 - 10/15/20 08:08 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hazyhorse said:
just to add to the small PC dialogue... i use a 6qt presto. if you’re not trying to grow pounds at a time, you can make it work. like others said, look into smaller plates for no pours. if you use the holy grail containers you can easily fit like 16 in there. i also use it for grains!! it’s not ideal, but by using regular mouth pint jars instead of quarts, i can PC two quarts (4 pint jars) at a time. i usually use 1 quart per shoebox, so if you’re running smaller set ups it’s perfect. even if you are trying to grow a lot, it’s easy to do a few batches of jars over a weekend. if a 6qt is all you have access to, use one!!

also for fluffy (tomentose) growth on agar, it’s completely normal. ver mentioned pics to verify which is obviously the best way to tell, but it just being fluffy in general is completely fine. i run into tomentose growth on agar like 85% of the time. it’s rarer that i run into that thick rhizomorphic growth you see in agar porn. may be the way i make agar, could be genetic. i don’t care because it all results in mushies




+1. I use a 6qt for agar simply because it's a PITA to drag out the 23qt just for one media bottle.

However, I think an 8qt would probably be a lot better for versatility. My 6 won't fit quart jars upright and a 500mL media bottle has to be leaned over. I'm pretty sure both will stand up in an 8. Pint jars are an option too.


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"I thought to myself 'Boy, I'm sure glad there's nobody here to see this because this is exactly the sort of thing that gets people riled-up and they assume you're dying and that something has to be done. Where if you're alone, you know, you either come through it or you die, but in any case you avoid the fuss.'"
- Terrence McKenna


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