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InvisibleJennyJackston
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Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp.
    #26986391 - 10/15/20 03:15 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

This question is aimed at the scientists, the curious and those pioneers who want to push the boundaries in the way we do things. So please, No “Don’t over think it” or “stick to the way it works “ comments. I want to find out ways to improve the way of doing things.

I was wondering if we could use a UVC lamp inside of a SAB PRIOR to placing any mycelium in there. Since these claim to kill 99.9% of bacteria and mold and other pathogens, would it help us in our hobby.

How does this process sound? Place a UVC sterilation lamp operating at 254nm wavelength inside a SAB and switch it on for about hour, then spray some light soapy water, wait 10 mins place the rye grain jars inside the SAB. Switch off the UVC lamp and THEN bring in the agar plates to inoculate the jars.

It’simportant to not bring the Agar anywhere near the SAB until the UVC lamp has been switched off. We dont want to kill out mycelium.

I have a few questions around this:
• I assume that the UVC lamp must be inside the SAB and not outside because the the plastic casing could reduce the UVC light.
• Could we place petri dishes / ketchup containers cleaned with 70% Iso in the SAB under the UVC light to sterilise the dishes?
• Could we sterilise our grains to kill of any surface contam.

Of course this would not be a substitute for PC sterilsation because that goes much deeper. Would ther ebe any harm to using such a lamp?

Thank you for your pateince and understanding on this boys. I dont really know where else I can ask this kind of questions.
JJ

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: JennyJackston] * 1
    #26986498 - 10/15/20 06:30 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Of course you could.  However, SABs are not by design, sterile.  They're 'still air boxes' which keep airborne particles in the air off your project.  Sterilizing the inside surfaces would be of little use, since we don't put our spawn directly on the surface of the SAB.
RR


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InvisibleJennyJackston
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #26987404 - 10/15/20 04:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Thank you Roger,
I understand that SAB are not really sterile, they are just “Still” air boxes. 

If I understand this correctly,so there are still contams floating around in there and all we are  trying to do is to minimise and reduce the chances of these contams ending up inside or petri dishes or spawn jars.  So my thinking is that perhaps a UV-C lamp inside the box, switched on for a short while before we do any work would REDUCE such airborne contams?  I mean, is it not better to have a box with 100 bits of contam rather than 1000, (completely arbitart numbers picked out of thin air just to make my self understood).

I have read some of the other posts on the subject. I am only looking at having the lamp on IN the box and not in the presence of any agar dishes or inoculated spawn jars.

I will take a look at some of the other threads on this point.  I know that no one is doing it right now, but then again, everyone rode horses until a few people started driving cars….. You feel what I mean.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: JennyJackston]
    #26988526 - 10/16/20 01:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

If it's a 'still' air box, they won't.  If you choose to use UV, shut it off before working. There are hundreds of threads on this exact issue.
RR


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #26993844 - 10/19/20 11:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

UV can be very very dangerous. Please do loads of research and be very careful. There are lots and lots of people using an SAB successfully without UV or even disinfectants for that matter. Those things should not be necessary. If you are having problems with contaminates you need to practice more and work on your technique.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: JennyJackston]
    #26996823 - 10/21/20 06:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You're going to work with sanitized gloves. And you'll need technique and skill to prevent contamination no matter what precautions you take. Go ahead use a UVC lamp. You'll decrease your chance of contamination by some negligible amount and increase your risk of UVC exposure you didn't intend. Which could be as benign as plastic becoming brittle and as bad as skin or eye damage.

Even in industry and education the hoods with UVC bulbs built in are gimmicks. Just because people have degrees even in science doesn't make them infallible to making uneducated decisions on equipment. All sorts of phds have came up with absolutely bat shit crazy theories and ideas, but they surely wouldn't buy a hood with unnecessary bells and whistles...


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InvisibleSleepingstar
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: JennyJackston]
    #27003996 - 10/26/20 04:26 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Hospitals are using them to sterilize masks and equipment. I’m curious about the part of sterilizing grain.

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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: Sleepingstar]
    #27003997 - 10/26/20 04:26 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Disinfect*


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OfflinePOWAtrippinDiscord
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27014505 - 10/31/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

UVC works great in a DI water system, but its probably never going to work to sterilize through plastic (PS and PP) or glass.  They have special materials for plates that they want to blast with UVC (quartz?)

I am extremely doubtful that you would beable to sterilize a grain with UVC as its pretty much only viable for liquids and gasses


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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: POWAtrippin]
    #27017476 - 11/02/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Please read this thread for a lengthy discussion. UV-C is fine if you have a real bulb and observe commonsense precautions. "Real bulbs" have spectral curves available and are not LEDs. Invest in a pair of blue blocker glasses. Also, sterilizing media with UV-C doesn't work.


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Offlinesoonyata
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: JennyJackston]
    #27478083 - 09/22/21 10:32 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)



Bit of a late reply, but useful I hope.

I put together SAB with a DUO FLUOR DELUXE FIXTURE 2 X 55W and 2 TUV PL-L 60W 4P UVC light tubes. These are in total 120W UVC inside a SAB.
Also my SAB is connected to a philips 4000i air filter that filters 99.9% of all bacteria and even viruses and creates positive pressure inside. This helps to cool down dishes or LQ faster and avoids condensation on the walls of the SAB and UVC light tubes. The other 0.1% is killed by the 120W UVC. It is surrounded by aluminum plates so the UVC can reach everywhere.
With this setup I tested 10 open agar dishes for a week only using the philips 4000i and no contam in any dish. Green mold inside agar dish is killed by the UVC within 30 sec.
If boron glass dishes are closed, the UVC will not enter the dish and the mycelium is safe. Also plastic dishes block UVC.



But you cannot use the philips 4000i with anything inside the SAB that is possibly contaminated because the air will actually circulate all the contam inside the SAB. I tried this with grains and open dishes and ended up with everything contaminated.

With that in mind you can use the philips 4000i as a flow hoot near the entrance of the SAB, as long as the air does not enter the SAB.

This setup is as close as possible to 100% contamination free.

I also use double gloves soaked in perox so nothing of contamination can enter.

As you can see on the right side of the SAB, there are eye protection glasses as with these strong UVC lights you should be careful. The on / off switch I mounted on top of the SAB ona wooden plate that also holds the UVC fixture and it also includes a waterproof LED 6500K as a worklight inside the SAB on the backside of the fixture.


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Offlinesoonyata
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: soonyata]
    #27478101 - 09/22/21 10:46 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Just in case someone wonders. With 1 week UVC exposure, the agar dishes still worked perfectly with mycelium transfer. No difference detected. So damage and ozone problems seem minimal.

The agar dishes were filled with pda, lme with peptone and yeast. All fine.

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Offlinezoidbergo
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: soonyata]
    #27478125 - 09/22/21 11:09 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

If you have a HEPA filter and a blower why not just make a laminar flow hood? Instead it seems you've made a turbulent flow box.

It's impressive, and I don't doubt that it works better than my unmodified SAB, but the whole thing seems to address a nearly non-existent problem of contamination in a SAB


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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: zoidbergo] * 1
    #27478134 - 09/22/21 11:15 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zoidbergo said:
If you have a HEPA filter and a blower why not just make a laminar flow hood? Instead it seems you've made a turbulent flow box.

It's impressive, and I don't doubt that it works better than my unmodified SAB, but the whole thing seems to address a nearly non-existent problem of contamination in a SAB



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Offlinesoonyata
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: zoidbergo]
    #27478137 - 09/22/21 11:20 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I like to cool down my lq and agar bottles inside the SAB with the lids slightly open. I autoclave them inside an ovenbag tie wrapped and bring them inside the SAB, open the ovenbag and let them cool. This way I have no contamination whatsoever. I fill the dishes around 90C with the air filter on. This way it remains in positive pressure and contam free. But I cannot do grain to grain transfers or similar work with the filter on. It will circulate the contam if any. So I mix with the UVC on or filter on or both on or neither on. The UVC makes the whole SAB very sterile in no time, so it is still better then just a SAB as the room air has contams in my workspace.

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Offlinesoonyata
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: soonyata]
    #27478150 - 09/22/21 11:34 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

But it was work in progress. I started with the SAB, but ended up with too much contam. I added the UVC from philips but I ended up with too much moisture on the sides of the SAB and the light bolbs. So I added the air filter. Then I still had a very small percentage of grain jars going wrong so I ended up tie wrapping the bottles in the autoclave and transporting them with the tie wrap tight. That solved everything. I use the Duran bottles without aluminium foil.

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Invisiblecoversall
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: soonyata]
    #27481468 - 09/25/21 07:32 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Wait, blowing air, around a still air box?

Looks sick.

Did you look at any other ways addressing your contam issues? Myself and other work exclusively in plain ol' SABs making LCs, pouring plates, ect with no issue.

I work in a crazy dusty, animally, drafty house.


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Offlinegone-pear-shaped
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: coversall] * 1
    #27481499 - 09/25/21 07:53 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

That's pretty cool, Soon. I don't see it catching on because it's dangerous and a more complex than what most of us need, but it's cool nonetheless. I hope you use eye protection religiously.

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Offlinesoonyata
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
    #27482387 - 09/26/21 02:46 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

It was a fun idea but I agree this is not the best.

Again I had some trouble with my Pan Cyan dishes a couple of days ago and that really pissed me off :smile:

So I will change over to a professional crossflow cabinet (Laminar airflow).

I will use the UVC SAB to sterilise my monotubs. Just put it on top of it. Will see how that works.

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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: soonyata]
    #27483118 - 09/26/21 07:02 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I'll do it for Bod:


*disinfect.

Id focus on clean spawn rather than clean mono containers.


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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: Smartattack] * 1
    #27483202 - 09/26/21 08:59 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I use a negative-ion generator. :shrug:

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Invisiblecoversall
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: soonyata]
    #27483495 - 09/27/21 07:54 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

soonyata said:
It was a fun idea but I agree this is not the best.

Again I had some trouble with my Pan Cyan dishes a couple of days ago and that really pissed me off :smile:

So I will change over to a professional crossflow cabinet (Laminar airflow).

I will use the UVC SAB to sterilise my monotubs. Just put it on top of it. Will see how that works.




I dunno man, I don't what to labour the point, but my personal approach would be to assess how you are currently working. Flowhoods aren't cheap, and they aren't a silver bullet. If there is a weakness in the way you are working and the SAB is exposing it then you have a chance to learn and improve. Chucking money at the issue might just lead to buyers remorse and no real improvment in how you work.

Take that all with a pinch of salt, I've never worked with a hood. Maybe hood owners can tell me to sod off and that hoods are magic anti-contam devices that fix all your problems. :wink:


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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: coversall] * 1
    #27483760 - 09/27/21 11:12 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Any UV that's strong enough to *disinfect or *sanitize anything is very dangerous for people to use. That shit will burn your eyes and skin in ways you won't feel till you need to go to the ER. Why reinvent the wheel as a hexagon? Thousands of people have wonderful and consistent success without UV lamps and you can to. If you can't it's a matter of lack of skill rather than anything else and a UV lamp won't save you from that...



Fuck that noise.


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Invisiblecoversall
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: Nichrome]
    #27483935 - 09/27/21 01:47 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nichrome said:
Any UV that's strong enough to *disinfect or *sanitize anything is very dangerous for people to use. That shit will burn your eyes and skin in ways you won't feel till you need to go to the ER. Why reinvent the wheel as a hexagon? Thousands of people have wonderful and consistent success without UV lamps and you can to. If you can't it's a matter of lack of skill rather than anything else and a UV lamp won't save you from that...



Fuck that noise.




I keep half remembering someone who was working under a UV lamp for mush cult and ended up in hostipla with fried eyes? Was that a real thing?


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: coversall]
    #27484547 - 09/27/21 10:47 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

coversall said:
Quote:

Nichrome said:
Any UV that's strong enough to *disinfect or *sanitize anything is very dangerous for people to use. That shit will burn your eyes and skin in ways you won't feel till you need to go to the ER. Why reinvent the wheel as a hexagon? Thousands of people have wonderful and consistent success without UV lamps and you can to. If you can't it's a matter of lack of skill rather than anything else and a UV lamp won't save you from that...



Fuck that noise.




I keep half remembering someone who was working under a UV lamp for mush cult and ended up in hostipla with fried eyes? Was that a real thing?





There is more than one of those stories. One dude ended up in ICU.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: mycot]
    #27484860 - 09/28/21 08:49 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:
I use a negative-ion generator. :shrug:



:ytho:


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OfflineJask_eyez
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Re: Sterilation inside of SAB using a UVC Lamp. [Re: JennyJackston]
    #27491486 - 10/03/21 08:39 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I know this isn’t the response you’re looking for but even without wiping down an sab, without wearing gloves, and without washing your hands you can achieve near 100% clean transfers by simply flame sterilizing your tools and by maintaining good working procedures, as well as by improving your manual dexterity. Speed and control are the name of the game. Git gud


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