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Thanos407
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Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate
#26986273 - 10/15/20 12:12 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey all,
Wondering if you can help me identify what's going on with these strange areas of bulk substrate that appearing. My first impression is that it might be cobweb mold. This is my first attempt at this and have nothing to compare it to.

Thanks for your help!
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fahtster
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Thanos407]
#26986342 - 10/15/20 01:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Gonna need a better, clearer, much closer picture of just one of those areas.. can’t tell ya anything from that pic
Faht
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: fahtster]
#26986356 - 10/15/20 02:14 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
fahtster said: Gonna need a better, clearer, much closer picture of just one of those areas.. can’t tell ya anything from that pic
Faht
Apologies.
I hope one of these will suffice:





Thanks for lending your eye!
PS. Realizing how badly I hacked the hell out of this poor substrate....
Edited by Thanos407 (10/15/20 02:17 AM)
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fahtster
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Thanos407]
#26986381 - 10/15/20 02:51 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I’m not seeing anything wrong with your tub.. looks like it’s about to put out a nice pin set. Is it MS? Sometimes myc will just grow differently in certain spots.. could just be that there’s grain closer to the top of the substrate and that’s why you’re getting those little dense spots.. the myc will grow denser the closer to the high nutritional source (grain spawn) it is. Maybe someone else is seeing something else, but looks good to me. Just keep an eye on it but I wouldn’t be worried if it were my tub.
If it’s MS, you can have the different strains’ myc growing in different ways, giving it a non-cohesive look
Faht
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: fahtster]
#26986395 - 10/15/20 03:20 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
fahtster said: I’m not seeing anything wrong with your tub.. looks like it’s about to put out a nice pin set. Is it MS? Sometimes myc will just grow differently in certain spots.. could just be that there’s grain closer to the top of the substrate and that’s why you’re getting those little dense spots.. the myc will grow denser the closer to the high nutritional source (grain spawn) it is. Maybe someone else is seeing something else, but looks good to me. Just keep an eye on it but I wouldn’t be worried if it were my tub.
If it’s MS, you can have the different strains’ myc growing in different ways, giving it a non-cohesive look
Faht
This is good to hear. The tub has been through hell. Started off in a Martha where it was over-saturated, threw a bag with holes over it for a day, then back in Martha for a day, now it's sitting in kitchen with top flipped over because I thought it might contaminate other bins.
Grain was inoculated via Liquid Culture made from multi-spore syringe.
I'm gonna wait until everything I have fizzles out then start over using a monotub tek.
Until then I'm going to try my hand at isolating on agar so that I can start off on the right foot.
There is no order to whatever I'm doing now... and the guess work is driving me nuts.
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Thanos407]
#26987884 - 10/16/20 01:54 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sounds good cloning is super easy too. Please keep this thread updated.. I’d like to see how it goes
Faht
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: fahtster] 2
#26987920 - 10/16/20 04:06 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah that very first picture looks like you’ve circled all the spots a grain is on the surface.
You can see the same thing in my tub here, there’s two spots one high one low both in the middle of the tub.
The bigger one at the bottom was a sunflower seed that I noticed stuck to my glove after adding the top layer so I just tossed it on top. The higher dot is a piece of millet.
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: A.k.a]
#26988204 - 10/16/20 10:43 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
fahtster said: Sounds good cloning is super easy too. Please keep this thread updated.. I’d like to see how it goes
Faht
Will do! Thanks for your thoughts on my project!
Quote:
A.k.a said: Yeah that very first picture looks like you’ve circled all the spots a grain is on the surface.
You can see the same thing in my tub here, there’s two spots one high one low both in the middle of the tub.
The bigger one at the bottom was a sunflower seed that I noticed stuck to my glove after adding the top layer so I just tossed it on top. The higher dot is a piece of millet.

Makes sense! I didn't even think of that being a cause for the way it looks. Maybe, due to the shallow location, it also explains why it has a shiny/slimy looking texture? A few posts in my searches describe that appearance being due to excessive dryness. Thanks for your thoughts on this!
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Thanos407]
#26988280 - 10/16/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you’re seeing the myc start to look kind of like thin plastic in spots ime that’s from getting it too wet and then too dry. I used to do it a lot. The main problem is once that happens it doesn’t hold water the same.
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: A.k.a]
#26988954 - 10/16/20 06:08 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: The main problem is once that happens it doesn’t hold water the same.
I don't like the sound of that. Would scraping affected areas of the substrate and allowing it to re-propagate correct those areas? Or is it best to leave alone?
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Thanos407]
#26989001 - 10/16/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Definitely do not scratch into your substrate.. just leave it be and let it do it’s thing. It is possible to love your subs to death and happens often
Faht
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: fahtster]
#26989028 - 10/16/20 07:08 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
fahtster said: Definitely do not scratch into your substrate.. just leave it be and let it do it’s thing. It is possible to love your subs to death and happens often
Faht
Copy that.
Yes. Me love my sub long time.
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: fahtster]
#26992265 - 10/19/20 04:17 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
fahtster said: Sounds good cloning is super easy too. Please keep this thread updated.. I’d like to see how it goes
Faht
Mass pinnage! One of these tubs also has a circumferential layer of side pinnage.. along with a bottom dead-center area that has greater growth than the topside.
One thing i've learned through my shroomery searches is that the way to avoid side pins is to make the top layer of your substrate the most ideal direction for growth. So I've got some work to do.
Pictures below:


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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Thanos407]
#26992396 - 10/19/20 07:06 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Very nice! I’ve found liners to be really helpful at reducing side pins as well.
Faht
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: fahtster]
#26995632 - 10/21/20 02:15 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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And to think... I was going to toss these tubs...
Thanks for talking me off the ledge peeps!
Question. I floated by tubs and am dunking for 3 hours. My substrate took a beating in the process of trying to harvest side-pins. They are still in 1 piece by there's quite a bit of sediment and broken off pins at the bottom of the tubs.
1) Will the debris at the bottom decay and lead to contams if I don't remove? I really prefer to drain the tubs and let the sediment stay where it may. What do you all do?
2) How long do you all recommend dunking for? I'm using ShaperDreaming's Tek (https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26043820) and she recommends 3 hours after harvest. So that is what I'm doing now, but I'm open to other's thoughts if technique has been updated.
Pics: These fruits are small but I'm happy with the density of this flush. I wasn't expecting such a good turn-out for my first monotub! (I didn't weigh wet... and my dry weight will be off due to partial harvest of sporulating fruits.)

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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Thanos407]
#26995652 - 10/21/20 02:35 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Very nice tub! Especially for your first. Well done.
1. I usually try to get as much as possible but I haven’t had contamination because of it. That’s another reason liners are better imo
2. 3 hours is plenty and on the high side imo but totally doable.. 1-2 is normal for me.. bulk subs take in water really fast
Faht
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: fahtster]
#26995669 - 10/21/20 03:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
fahtster said: Very nice tub! Especially for your first. Well done.
1. I usually try to get as much as possible but I haven’t had contamination because of it. That’s another reason liners are better imo
2. 3 hours is plenty and on the high side imo but totally doable.. 1-2 is normal for me.. bulk subs take in water really fast
Faht
Thank you! And I appreciate your quick reply. It came just at the right time because I was about to let it sit overnight.
About the liner.. I may give it a shot the next time around, but it seems that the Teks I've been modeling do not use them. Maybe I can give it a try on a couple of shoeboxes.
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Thanos407]
#26995702 - 10/21/20 04:30 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah those are beautiful shrooms.
That’s why I always keep telling people don’t toss it until you see mold. Imagine if you’d thrown them out not only would you have many ounces less mushrooms but you’d be thinking it was a total waste and failure.
What kind are they??
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: A.k.a]
#26995951 - 10/21/20 08:52 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: Yeah those are beautiful shrooms.
That’s why I always keep telling people don’t toss it until you see mold. Imagine if you’d thrown them out not only would you have many ounces less mushrooms but you’d be thinking it was a total waste and failure.
What kind are they??
Thank you. Yes, that’s advice I will live by now.
B+ !
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Thanos407]
#26996164 - 10/21/20 10:58 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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awesome looks great!
casing the sub has always helped me with side pins.
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fahtster
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Big_Dub]
#26996190 - 10/21/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Liners are extremely easy my friend.. spritz the bottom and sides of the A clean tub with a little water (the water will make the bag stick to the sides of the tub while you fill it) and take an unexpanded black garbage bag and layout flat in the bottom.. fill with your bulk substrate and trim the extra bag off and done.
There’s nifty liner tricks you can do too.. check these out Eats liner tek and Munchs liner tek
Makes getting the substrate in and out super easy as well as reduces side pins.. doesn’t matter what tub tek you use.
Faht
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: fahtster]
#26996191 - 10/21/20 11:10 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah liners are nice, but too much work for me haha
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Big_Dub]
#26996196 - 10/21/20 11:13 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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nice result Thanos
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: SingularFusion]
#26996205 - 10/21/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you run shoeboxes just grab a brick of bags from a self checkout at Walmart. They fit perfectly. I used to cut clear trashbags until i saw somebody mention grocery bags and tried it. It’s a little tricky at first lining it up and getting air trapped and stuff but once you get it down it’s so nice, literally maybe 5 seconds.
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Big_Dub]
#26996874 - 10/21/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Big_Dub said: awesome looks great!
casing the sub has always helped me with side pins.
Thank you. By casing do you mean a liner? or a top coat after full colonization and pre-pinning? (Still learning the lingo).
Last tub pre harvest pic... all dunked and cruising until second flush(s).
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Thanos407]
#26996920 - 10/21/20 07:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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after you spawn the grain to the coir, you can add a casing, a small layer of just substrate material without spawn
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Big_Dub]
#26996966 - 10/21/20 08:22 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Big_Dub said: after you spawn the grain to the coir, you can add a casing, a small layer of just substrate material without spawn
Got it. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't mixing things up.
I covered all exposed seeds with a casing layer after spawning jars with CVG. Should I be adding a casing layer between flushes also?
A couple of things caused complications.. which is why I'm really surprised I got a good flush.
1st problem: I began fruiting in a Martha FC that way over-saturated my substrates... from then, I bounced them around through several different Teks and finally decided on an unmodified mono. That seemed to do the trick, despite all the commotion.
2nd problem:I continued to over-mist after taking out of Martha. I understand that I should be aiming for thousands of micro droplets on the surface for ideal fruiting conditions, but to be honest, I still do not know how to achieve that without too frequent misting. My BRF cakes have been bone dry... and bulks have been over-saturated.
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ModularMind
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Thanos407]
#26996977 - 10/21/20 08:28 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanos407 said: Should I be adding a casing layer between flushes also?
No. Just the initial.
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: fahtster]
#26996980 - 10/21/20 08:30 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
fahtster said: Liners are extremely easy my friend.. spritz the bottom and sides of the A clean tub with a little water (the water will make the bag stick to the sides of the tub while you fill it) and take an unexpanded black garbage bag and layout flat in the bottom.. fill with your bulk substrate and trim the extra bag off and done.
There’s nifty liner tricks you can do too.. check these out Eats liner tek and Munchs liner tek
Makes getting the substrate in and out super easy as well as reduces side pins.. doesn’t matter what tub tek you use.
Faht
Copy that! Thank you for breaking that down for me. I’ll definitely use this with my next tubs!
Question: It’s not obvious why you’d keep bag unexpanded? Thickness/durability/light protection?
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: SingularFusion]
#26996986 - 10/21/20 08:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nef said: nice result Thanos

Thank you! They were far better than I expected! Earlier, I was thinking of throwing them out but got talked off the ledge by the good members of this thread.
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: A.k.a]
#26996994 - 10/21/20 08:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: If you run shoeboxes just grab a brick of bags from a self checkout at Walmart. They fit perfectly. I used to cut clear trashbags until i saw somebody mention grocery bags and tried it. It’s a little tricky at first lining it up and getting air trapped and stuff but once you get it down it’s so nice, literally maybe 5 seconds.
Will definitely look into this! Thanks for the tip!
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fahtster
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: Thanos407]
#26997033 - 10/21/20 09:05 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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You keep the bag unexpanded so you have two layers.. one layer will stick to the tub and the other will stick to the sides of the substrate and shrink with it so there isn’t a micro climate for side pins to form
Faht
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: fahtster]
#26997246 - 10/22/20 02:00 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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As far as the lingo goes, casing usually means peat/verm. The layer of coir or whatever substrate you use is called a top layer.
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Big_Dub
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: A.k.a]
#26997589 - 10/22/20 09:27 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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ive never heard that distinction. I was under the impression that casing = top layer.
but i may be wrong. regardless, its the same idea
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: fahtster]
#26998318 - 10/22/20 04:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
fahtster said: You keep the bag unexpanded so you have two layers.. one layer will stick to the tub and the other will stick to the sides of the substrate and shrink with it so there isn’t a micro climate for side pins to form
Faht
That makes so much sense! Thank you for clarifying!
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Thanos407
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Re: Shiny film over areas of bulk substrate [Re: A.k.a]
#26998327 - 10/22/20 04:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: As far as the lingo goes, casing usually means peat/verm. The layer of coir or whatever substrate you use is called a top layer.
Thanks for explaining. Now, all the verm I used on BRF cakes makes sense and I have a name for it... I'll add a casing layer and liner next time around.
Question.. the verm or whatever casing to be used will be applied right after the I spawn to bulk?
Also, do you know the science behind this helping to reduce side-pins?
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