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Cory Duchesne
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hard feelings | by Macalester Bell
#26986163 - 10/14/20 10:47 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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be
What does it look like when someone is trying to exact esteem and deference? I imagine this hypocrisy to be a kind of invasive, intrusive behavior with a mask of positivity and kindness. It's a kind of bait and switch behavior. The hypocrite offers something desirable, such as food, and then, he cancels the offer, leaving the listener with a bad reaction. The hypocrite always promises more than he can deliver. The hypocrite cannot be seen with the eyes, only with the ears.
The hypocrite, like the liar, cannot be seen with the eyes, only with the ears. And what you "see" with the ears is a kind of non-existent thing. The hypocrite has no existence, he's not standing on firm ground. Hypocrisy is a blind thing, and it's blinding to those who take the hypocrite's bait (false claims, promises, offers that are later cancelled).
Frank T.J. Mackey (Magnolia) is one of the memorable hypocrites. There's an overweening ambition there, he's giving hope to the audience, he's presenting some kind of lifestyle that promises something, and then, behind the scenes, the guy is a total wreck.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (10/14/20 10:51 PM)
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: Cory Duchesne]
#26986503 - 10/15/20 06:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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maybe our whole infrastructure is bolted together with hypocritical nuts that were given a hearty twist during construction, and they never seem to come undone.
almost every everything has these nuts
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: Cory Duchesne]
#26986521 - 10/15/20 06:57 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I suspect a hypocrisy is evident in Kahlil Gibran's 'Garden of the Prophet' link The words "see that you give of yourself to the rich beggars; they are the most needy of all, for surely no man would stretch a hand for alms unless he be poor indeed, though of great possessions." And "Tell a lovely truth in little words, but never an ugly truth in any words."...are preceded by what looks like aa antithesis couched in a criticism of the U.S.A: "pity the nation that is full of beliefs and empty of religion.
“Pity the nation that wears a cloth it does not weave, eats a bread it does not harvest, and drinks a wine that flows not from its own winepress.
“Pity the nation that acclaims the bully as hero, and that deems the glittering conqueror bountiful.
“Pity the nation that despises a passion in its dream, yet submits in its awakening.
“Pity the nation that raises not its voice save when it walks in a funeral, boasts not except when its neck is laid between the sword and the block.
“Pity the nation whose statesman is a fox, whose philosopher is a juggle, and whose art is the art of patching and mimicking.
“Pity the nation that welcomes its new ruler with trumpetings, and farewells him with hootings, only to welcome another with trumpetings again.
“Pity the nation whose sages are dumb with years and whose strong men are yet in the cradle.
“Pity the nation divided into fragments, each fragment deeming itself a nation.”
To wrap up this hypocrisy he gives: " if you shall hear the critic and the fault-finder speak, be deaf as your own bones and as distant as your fancy."
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26986622 - 10/15/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I bought a book by Kahlil Gibran a long time ago, read through it a bit, but I had so many other books at the time.
I remember reading Kahlil Gibran, and him saying something like, "your children are not your own, they don't belong to you, they belong to life's longing for itself." Something like that.
As an adult over 30, I found it unnerving when a wealthy person's child would approach me for attention, interaction, etc... And the mother and father is kind of there lurking in the background, trying to pull me into their family unit.
Children that like to tell jokes are particularly challenging. An adult such as myself has a somewhat dark, cutting sense of humor, so with children, there's a lot of pretending that is absolutely necessary. Too much honesty or "realness" ends up creating unreal and dishonest situations. Children are most funny when they are not trying to be funny. When I see a 12-15 year old boy try to be funny, it's often not very funny at all. It also triggers me to remember when I was a pre-teen and teen, and all of the confusion, insolence and false attitudes that would occur during those times. When a child forgets him/herself in a worthwhile activity, then there is a freedom from being concerned for both the child and myself. However, when an effort is being made by the child or the adult to get some reaction, then it's quite tiresome to interact with them. Much of our time is wasted on trivialities and banalities. Adults purchase products that function like pylons and cages, and bad gifts leave people feeling cramped and clustered together in a small place.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (10/15/20 08:45 AM)
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: Cory Duchesne]
#26986649 - 10/15/20 09:02 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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how did the rich family try to pull you into their family unit?
what does that mean?
is it like a stoned insight?
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: redgreenvines]
#26987305 - 10/15/20 03:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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There's no verbal answer, it's beside this reply.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: redgreenvines]
#26993263 - 10/19/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: how did the rich family try to pull you into their family unit?
what does that mean?
is it like a stoned insight?
It's a Jung-insight:
"A feeling of inferiority does not in the least mean that it is unjustified. Only, the inferiority does not refer to that side of the personality, or to the function, in which it visibly appears, but to an inferiority which none the less really exists even though only dimly suspected. This condition can easily lead to an hysterical dissociation of the personality, which consists essentially in one hand not knowing what the other is doing, in wanting to jump over one's own shadow, and in looking for everything dark, inferior, and culpable in others." (Carl Jung)
^ This family was almost incessantly looking for trouble, always suspecting the worst, looking for faults, using shame and insults to have their way with me.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: Cory Duchesne]
#26993337 - 10/19/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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people do strange stuff to establish boundaries
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: redgreenvines]
#26993681 - 10/19/20 09:13 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's true, it's a kind of animal behavior.
In this case, the main factors are 1) "someone getting distracted" and then 2) someone getting curious, acting on that curiosity, and then 3) someone making an unflattering remark that implies a complaint/insult.
Now I'm going to drop some relevant memes I recently collected:
"We can't reach old age by another man's road. My habits protect my life, but they would assassinate you." - Mark Twain
"By nature, men are nearly alike; by practice, they get to be wide apart." - Confucius
"Why not strike at the heart of the situation? Why not admit that veneration for the wrong kinds of persons is the real danger? Why try to belittle the true friends of humanity, and then glorify the smart business man, the gangster, and some crooner with a preposterous pompadour? Let us not lock ourselves in a foolish generation of little people trying to impress each other with pseudo greatness. It is neither wise nor safe to diagnose idealism as sickÂness, and solemnly pronounce those who live purposeless and meaningless existences as enjoying the best of mental health. If we destroy man's faith in good, as this is associated with the great teachers and reformers of the world, we will only help to bring our own way of life to quicker and more certain ruin." ~ Manly P. Hall (PRS Journal Autumn 1960, p. 46)
"Goodness." What a word.
Edited by Cory Duchesne (10/19/20 09:17 PM)
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: Cory Duchesne]
#26993944 - 10/20/20 04:36 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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if goodness were in man's nature then there would be no problem, but t seems to be in men's habits, so it has to become part of that, or we drift apart.
"goodness", what does that mean!
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#26994533 - 10/20/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: if goodness were in man's nature then there would be no problem, but it seems to be in men's habits, so it has to become part of that, or we drift apart.
"goodness", what does that mean!
Goodness has something to do with gratification and gratitude. Evil also has something to do with gratification and gratitude. Goodness might have something to do with waiting, giving, serving, assisting. Evil might have to do with not being able to wait, not serving, not assisting, and taking whatever pleasures that are in proximity. Good and Evil address the way our body-mind takes possession and control of the property, things and people around us. A man with money can purchase goods, but what affect do his goods have on him? What happens when someone takes his goods?
"Envy does not allow humanity to sleep." - Jung
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
Edited by Cory Duchesne (10/20/20 01:03 PM)
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: Cory Duchesne] 1
#26994799 - 10/20/20 03:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said: if goodness were in man's nature then there would be no problem, but it seems to be in men's habits, so it has to become part of that, or we drift apart.
"goodness", what does that mean!
Goodness has something to do with gratification and gratitude. Evil also has something to do with gratification and gratitude. Goodness might have something to do with waiting, giving, serving, assisting. Evil might have to do with not being able to wait, not serving, not assisting, and taking whatever pleasures that are in proximity. Good and Evil address the way our body-mind takes possession and control of the property, things and people around us. A man with money can purchase goods, but what affect do his goods have on him? What happens when someone takes his goods?
"Envy does not allow humanity to sleep." - Jung
that is a rigorous and fresh come back. thanx - stuck it in my diary
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: redgreenvines]
#26995086 - 10/20/20 06:05 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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He is not a big man simply because he demands total obedience from others. ~ Manly P. Hall (PRS Journal Spring 1961, p. 6)
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: Cory Duchesne]
#26997787 - 10/22/20 11:44 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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On the "intellectual conscience." — Nothing seems rarer to me today than genuine hypocrisy. I greatly suspect that the soft air of our culture is insalubrious for this plant. Hypocrisy belongs in the ages of strong faith when, even though constrained to display another faith, one did not abandon one's own faith. Today one does abandon it; or, even more commonly, one adds a second faith — and in either case one remains honest. Without a doubt, a very much greater number of convictions is possible today than formerly: "possible" means permissible, which means harmless. This begets tolerance toward oneself. Tolerance toward oneself permits several convictions and they get along with each other: they are careful, like all the rest of the world, not to compromise themselves. How does one compromise oneself today? If one is consistent. If one proceeds in a straight line. If one is not ambiguous enough to permit five conflicting interpretations. If one is genuine. I fear greatly that modern man is simply too comfortable for some vices, so that they die out by default. All evil that is a function of a strong will — and perhaps there is no evil without strength of will — degenerates into virtue in our tepid air. The few hypocrites whom I have met imitated hypocrisy: like almost every tenth person today, they were actors.
- Nietzsche, Die Götzen-Dämmerung - Twilight of the Idols
"How much time he gains who does not look to see what his neighbor says or does or thinks, but only at what he does himself, to make it just and holy." ~ Marcus Aurelius
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: Cory Duchesne]
#26997929 - 10/22/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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the web allows detangling, and with that you might reduce hypocrisy, but this is not easy while on the run, and until these covid lockdowns, we have all been on the run.
cooped up, we are in a great position to be still and polish our mirrors
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: redgreenvines]
#26998044 - 10/22/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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That Marcus Aurelius quote makes it plain that I wont see everything in a mirror. I like the Nietzsche adjunct about evil degenerating into virtue.
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26998126 - 10/22/20 03:02 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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good image
not the best match
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: redgreenvines]
#26998205 - 10/22/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've always appreciated theater/film, insofar as it is true art. Theater requires characterization. Hypocrisy can only be understood/seen/heard through characterization, animation, time, change, theater.
One of the characters I would like to seen written up in a play or act is a particular species of hypocrite who reminds others of their illness, in a patronizing way.
I don't think it's a good idea to remind someone of an illness they might have/had. It appears there is a type of hypocrite out there who keeps tabs on people's health issues or misdeeds and derives gratification from reminding others of their perceived illness/infirmities.
"You can't do that" is the sentiment that the hypocrite seems to value. The thing they are telling you can't do is often something that would be conductive to healing or wellness for the patient. The hypocrite cares a lot about keeping people dependent and close to him, always trying to lull and lure his target into some kind of dependence and inferiority.
"A patient should not be regarded as an inferior being whom one lays on a couch while one sits behind him like a god, letting a word drop now and then. Everything suggestive of illness should be avoided. The patient is tending in this direction anyway and would like nothing better than to take refuge in illness: “now I can give up, now I must just lie there, now I am good and sick.” Illness too is a solution of sorts, a way of disposing of life’s problems: “I am ill, now the doctor must help!” ~Carl Jung, CW10, Para 881
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: Cory Duchesne]
#26998234 - 10/22/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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manipulation via taking self hostage.
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Re: hard feelings | by Macalester Bell [Re: redgreenvines]
#26999441 - 10/23/20 10:29 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's why I loathe most people who try to invite / welcome me into something. It's trap party, and you're invited. Most invites are just into a group of hypocrites abusing each other's time and property. Parties based on rewarding some, punishing others, passively aggressively or aggressively.
-------------------- C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know." "I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti "All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]
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