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OfflineMalachite
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: Malachite]
    #26982415 - 10/12/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

And on the subject genetic banking, I'd love to send the ones in my yard off. But, with how often classifications for Gymns seem to change, who knows if it'll be the same species next year haha


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Offlinemycot
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: Malachite]
    #26982472 - 10/12/20 09:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Malachite said:
Woah, are they implying that it only bruises in the annulus? can't really have a confirmation from a lack of information, but that is very odd, and a very specific region to note bluing. But if  that happens to be true, I'd be very interested to see if Gymnopilus somehow focuses all Psilocybin synthesis/storage on the annulus. Doesn't really make much sense, but is fascinating. And the Gymns around me will bruise just by existing too long and the elements doing their thing, so if that field sample bruised they had to have seen it in more places than just the annulus. That's so wild.



No , they are not saying that at all. What they say in the paper is "sometimes with a bluish-green zone below the annulus," on page 307
under G.speciosissimus then on page 308 which has a photograph of the species they say the exact same phrase again.
No mention of bluing due to bruising.

No, the shrooms definitely does not Store or synthesize psilocybin in connection with the annulus. :laugh:
Odd about the bluish green zone though.

Have you identified gyms around where you are down to species level?


Edited by mycot (10/12/20 11:45 PM)


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OfflineMalachite
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: mycot]
    #26983145 - 10/13/20 10:40 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:
Quote:

Malachite said:
Woah, are they implying that it only bruises in the annulus? can't really have a confirmation from a lack of information, but that is very odd, and a very specific region to note bluing. But if  that happens to be true, I'd be very interested to see if Gymnopilus somehow focuses all Psilocybin synthesis/storage on the annulus. Doesn't really make much sense, but is fascinating. And the Gymns around me will bruise just by existing too long and the elements doing their thing, so if that field sample bruised they had to have seen it in more places than just the annulus. That's so wild.



No , they are not saying that at all. What they say in the paper is "sometimes with a bluish-green zone below the annulus," on page 307
under G.speciosissimus then on page 308 which has a photograph of the species they say the exact same phrase again.
No mention of bluing due to bruising.

No, the shrooms definitely does not Store or synthesize psilocybin in connection with the annulus. :laugh:
Odd about the bluish green zone though.

Have you identified gyms around where you are down to species level?






OH. Guess 5 hours of sleep really impairs my critical thinking. yeah, it is odd anyhow. And no, I've only identified Gymns growing on palms down here to either palmicola or cyanopalmicola. Anything growing on hard wood I'm still not sure at all because of how much variance I'm seeing in physical traits.


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Offlinemycot
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: Malachite]
    #26983436 - 10/13/20 01:58 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Those are two great species.
G.cyanopalmicola's phylogeny falls within the active clade(s) and going by morphology G.palmicola would also fall within the active clade(s).
Gym identification skills are often sharpened through close observation and lots of familiarity with a species.
I've observed that Gyms of different species will have gills of a different shade/type of color when compared side by side and more or less of the same age (this broad rule may not hold true in every singe case but generally) whereas in gyms of the same species the color will be perfectly identical given the same age. Just a nice tip. :loveeyes:


Edited by mycot (10/13/20 02:16 PM)


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OfflineMalachite
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: mycot]
    #26983519 - 10/13/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Good to know. The only other tip I got for what I might have around here was from Alan, who said (about my Gymns I found on pine or oak iirc) that it was likely G. lepidotus.

However, as I have no idea the wood the current ones are growing on, I'm not really sure myself. But one thing is for sure, they look nothing like lepidotus I found before. Or any I've seen online.
And I'm really not sure what else would match it down here in Florida, as they aren't very large. Perhaps it's something more common but starved for nutrients haha. From what I've gathered, lepitdotus is probably not active/don't display bruising, but mine do so I might rule lepidotus out.


Edited by Malachite (10/13/20 03:01 PM)


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Offlinemycot
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: Malachite]
    #26983591 - 10/13/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

On the contrary G.lepidotus is certainly active.
Its closest and most widespread relative phylogenetically is G.dilepis a species that is also active and blues but has not been recorded in the Americas.
So you have mentioned three good species, two of which we already have sequences for.
If not G.lepidotus there is always the possibility of an undescribed species being found, which is not as uncommon as people may think. :eek:


Edited by mycot (10/13/20 04:01 PM)


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Offlinedonjonson420
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: mycot]
    #26983708 - 10/13/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

G. dilepis occurs in California and the PNW likely imported with eucalyptus during the California gold rush.  Alan has a pretty comprehensive tree which can be viewed here.  https://mushroomobserver.org/237083?q=1UpBZ


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Offlinemycot
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: donjonson420]
    #26983732 - 10/13/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

donjonson420 said:
G. dilepis occurs in California and the PNW likely imported with eucalyptus during the California gold rush.  Alan has a pretty comprehensive tree which can be viewed here.  https://mushroomobserver.org/237083?q=1UpBZ



Wow. :smile:  This info is quite new and relatively recent.
Thanks for the input. :thumbup: :smile:


Edited by mycot (10/13/20 05:23 PM)


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: mycot]
    #26983774 - 10/13/20 05:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)



G. subspectabilis, found today fruiting from the base of a pin oak tree. I'm convinced that this species doesn't fruit directly from wood at all, but from dead or decaying roots buried beneath the earth. The largest cluster I've seen fruits every year from a patch of grass. There are no trees nearby, but the grass is depressed in such a way as to suggest there was once a tree there before it was cut down and removed.

Further, I do believe thay this species is very variable in its colouration depending on different environmental factors. Last year one patch fruited pale-yellow, and this year it fruited bright orange.

This species bruises strongly and clearly (and displays psychoactivity), especially in young specimens, but even mature specimens bruise surprisingly strong. This is most clear in the yellowish specimens than in the more orange-brown specimens.

Here's a photo from two years ago, showing a different specimen of this species in a different location also growing from the base of an oak:



They always fruit from a thick base usually adorned with many tiny pins, most of which eventually abort.

This is all based on my personal research and experience with this fungus in the field, so hopefully others who find this mushroom (which appears commonly in eastern North America during the month of October) will comment with their experiences so that we can learn more about this astounding genus and all of its clades.


--------------------


Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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OfflineMalachite
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: mycot]
    #26983792 - 10/13/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:
On the contrary G.lepidotus is certainly active.
Its closest and most widespread relative phylogenetically is G.dilepis a species that is also active and blues but has not been recorded in the Americas.
So you have mentioned three good species, two of which we already have sequences for.
If not G.lepidotus there is always the possibility of an undescribed species being found, which is not as uncommon as people may think. :eek:




Man I don't know a damn thing huh :confused:
I suppose I thought that they weren't since my cyanopalmica bruised and those didn't. Good to know though. Do lepidotus bruise, though?

In any case, the next time I see pins out there I will document their growth and see if any of you guys can point me in the right direction.


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Offlinemycot
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: Malachite]
    #26983827 - 10/13/20 06:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Moria841
Excellent find there, love the pics. Some mad pinning there.

I'm not sure about the Gyms being unable to grow from wood.
It may given the right conditions.
After all roots are pretty much wood I would imagine if we include bark.  The wood may have to be dead wood although I have on occasion found a gym on a living branch, although perhaps it was growing on the bark which was dead.

With shrooms growing at the base of trees, perhaps this may be due to a tendency of spores to theoretically collect there.
In the past I've considered that there may be a symbiotic relationnship between soil and wood where the shrooms grow better in the presence of a little soil/dirt.

It would surprise me if it was like Amanita's in requiring living roots.(I know you don't mention living roots)



Edited by mycot (10/13/20 07:42 PM)


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OfflineMalachite
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: mycot]
    #26983889 - 10/13/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

They are showing for me


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Offlinemycot
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: Malachite]
    #26983920 - 10/13/20 07:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Malachite said:
They are showing for me



They showed up just as I'd finished posting.
So I've changed my post significantly.


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Offlinemycot
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: Moria841]
    #26984610 - 10/14/20 07:21 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I like the way the annulus shows up so well in the second picture. :loveeyes:

Quote:

Moria841 said:
I'm convinced that this species doesn't fruit directly from wood at all, but from dead or decaying roots buried beneath the earth. The largest cluster I've seen fruits every year from a patch of grass. There are no trees nearby, but the grass is depressed in such a way as to suggest there was once a tree there before it was cut down and removed.




"Dead or decaying roots" or 'dead or decaying wood' should be much the same. I can' imagine there being much difference. They should be entirely suitable for cultivation. I do believe however that woodlover mycelium often likes some contact with dirt/broken down compost for the extra minerals but this can be easily provided.

Quote:

Moria841 said:
Further, I do believe thay this species is very variable in its colouration depending on different environmental factors. Last year one patch fruited pale-yellow, and this year it fruited bright orange.




Shrooms are notorious for changing their appearance under different environmental conditions including size, shape and coloration.
This does not make the identifiers job any easier. Out in the field one gets to know the variability within a species wjthout being thrown off except by the more extreme variations.

I thought I'd share a pic from a gym grow I did some years back to show the type of variation one can get within a single species in both color and morphology. These were also huge in comparison to the original find. I should also point out that under artificial conditions, variation can be more extreme than one generally finds in nature. In this case certainly so. Other shrooms from the same grow (but grown in fruiting chamber) also  look very different to these two.



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OfflineMalachite
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: mycot]
    #26984877 - 10/14/20 10:52 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Those are gorgeous! I hope I can fruit the jar I have colonizing right now soon. What substrate/method did you use to cultivate? Did it take very long?


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Offlinemycot
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: Malachite]
    #26985340 - 10/14/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Malachite said:
Those are gorgeous! I hope I can fruit the jar I have colonizing right now soon. What substrate/method did you use to cultivate? Did it take very long?



Thanks. The substrate was composed of pecan woodchips (many species of wood are suitable) plus about 30% vermiculite (for moisture buffering) plus a small a amount of organic compost (5-10%) brought from the hardware,(read the label and make sure it doesn't contain manure or dolomite which will kill your grow) and all pasteurized by fifteen minutes in boiling water.
Method was to start by colonizing a small amount of woodchips and then mixing with that an equal amount of fresh substrate, allow to collonize and repeat. Keep this doubling up until one has the amount of colonized substrate one wishes to fruit. All this is done in at least two separate containers so if one failed there was a backup. With all this doubling going on under controlled temperature conditions it doesn't take very long. At first I only aimed for and fruited a tray.(plus a baby food jar for fun) Then I went nuts and used that already fruited substrate to create and fruit an outdoor bed five foot by two in size. :rockman: :aweyeah:
Here is a link to a thread of that grow so this thread does not become burdened by overmuch discussion of same.


Edited by mycot (10/15/20 01:05 AM)


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: mycot]
    #26985357 - 10/14/20 03:11 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

There's a difference in terms of microhabitats. A fungus growing on above-ground decaying wood is exposed to a different microbiome than a fungus growing underground on decaying roots, and then fruiting out of the ground. Think of the Coprinopsis species that fruit from decaying wood buried under the grass, but are rarely ever seen growing straight out of a log


--------------------


Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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Offlinemycot
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: Moria841]
    #26985394 - 10/14/20 03:35 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moria841 said:
There's a difference in terms of microhabitats. A fungus growing on above-ground decaying wood is exposed to a different microbiome than a fungus growing underground on decaying roots, and then fruiting out of the ground. Think of the Coprinopsis species that fruit from decaying wood buried under the grass, but are rarely ever seen growing straight out of a log



Can't one just add the appropriate microbiome to ones substrate. Or even burying ones woodchip mass?


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: mycot]
    #26985404 - 10/14/20 03:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Sure they could, but I'm mainly talking about how these fungi interact with their environments in nature


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Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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Offlinemycot
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Re: New paper on the Gymnopilus junonius group [Re: Moria841]
    #26985416 - 10/14/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moria841 said:
Sure they could, but I'm mainly talking about how these fungi interact with their environments in nature



Ah, I see that we had two different things in mind. :smile:


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