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OfflineZakkery
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: A.k.a]
    #26984563 - 10/14/20 06:37 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I have no input, just really enjoying this thread and want to bump it.

Love you big brain Bois :heart:


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InvisibleWall.E
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: Zakkery]
    #26984645 - 10/14/20 08:04 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I still think the substrate has something to do with it too. Growing on rye vs oats or something. I'm the furthest thing from a scientist though


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: Wall.E]
    #26984739 - 10/14/20 09:09 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Myc_Hunt said:
I still think the substrate has something to do with it too. Growing on rye vs oats or something. I'm the furthest thing from a scientist though




:justno:


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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: A.k.a]
    #26984784 - 10/14/20 09:36 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
I thought the same thing until I tried pans.

Completely different experience, imo there’s no doubt more than just psilo involved.





Is there any particular quality that you could say is different experientially?

Pans have smaller and more delicate bodies than cubes usually. I would imagine the rate at which the material is broken down and metabolized is different. But if that were all, then this would be observable by making a tea or extraction.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: karri0n] * 1
    #26985348 - 10/14/20 03:06 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

A higher dose of psilocin with less body load probably feels entirely different to some people tho. :shrug:


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: Inocuole] * 1
    #26985387 - 10/14/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

For me pans last longer and are way more visual in a different way than cubes are. Plus they have a different buzz to them.

The first time I took them it threw me off because I felt nearly sober and was thinking maybe I didn’t take enough. Then out of nowhere the tile floor fused together and started bubbling. It could just be me specifically but at .5-75 I get very little mind fuck. It’s almost like taking a pill that induces nothing but extremely vivid hallucinations.

A friend that says he never really gets visuals from cubes tried some and was flipping out telling me the flowers are melting and the pool tiles are spinning and pulsing.

Idk it’s just different. If I was dosed blind I would’ve guessed I had taken lsd.


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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: A.k.a]
    #26985656 - 10/14/20 05:38 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
For me pans last longer and are way more visual in a different way than cubes are. Plus they have a different buzz to them.

The first time I took them it threw me off because I felt nearly sober and was thinking maybe I didn’t take enough. Then out of nowhere the tile floor fused together and started bubbling. It could just be me specifically but at .5-75 I get very little mind fuck. It’s almost like taking a pill that induces nothing but extremely vivid hallucinations.

A friend that says he never really gets visuals from cubes tried some and was flipping out telling me the flowers are melting and the pool tiles are spinning and pulsing.

Idk it’s just different. If I was dosed blind I would’ve guessed I had taken lsd.




Damn, lol. Now I'm just pumped to try pans.


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InvisibleWall.E
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: Inocuole]
    #26985740 - 10/14/20 06:21 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Quote:

Myc_Hunt said:
I still think the substrate has something to do with it too. Growing on rye vs oats or something. I'm the furthest thing from a scientist though




:justno:





Oh okay


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: Wall.E] * 1
    #26986930 - 10/15/20 11:59 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

:thatsinteresting:


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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: Inocuole]
    #26986993 - 10/15/20 12:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah... pans and gyms both have been qualitatively different in an obvious sense when I've taken them.  The reason for that difference with gyms already has an established basis.  I'm hard pressed to believe that there has been a complete mapping of chemical structures of enough psilocybin containing species to render a judgement.  I definitely have cultures that exhibit distinct effects that are hard to qualify on paper, but easy to recognize when ingested.  RW is a superb example, as is my Malaysian mutation.  I will gladly buy into the belief that the gut plays a role.  Matter of fact,  I would suggest that this is possibly one of the larger missing pieces of the mystery in question.  Proteins,  synergistic inactives,  bacteria...  There's a lot of wiggle room there.  The next ten years are going to be revelatory.


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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: alaskappalachian]
    #26987310 - 10/15/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

alaskappalachian said:
The reason for that difference with gyms already has an established basis.




Is this due to baeocystin or some other compound? I'm having trouble finding any information on this since most of the online discussion seems to be focused around just which members of gym are psychoactive currently.

Not finding any scholarly articles either.


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: karri0n]
    #26987660 - 10/15/20 08:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I started this thread several weeks ago with a few articles:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26907559/page/1

I have always believed that each sub species as well as other species has effects beyond your basic psychoactives.


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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: maxmush]
    #27189220 - 02/06/21 07:29 AM (3 years, 9 days ago)

This thread is old but one of the better discussions i've seen on this matter, so shamefully bumping.

New research shows that all of the psychoactive mushrooms tested, including cubensis, contain Harmala Alkaloids.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7003923/

Harmala Alkaloids are the same alkaloids in banisteriopsis caapi(ayahuasca vine) and Syrian rue, the most commonly used natural MAOI's. They are used to make DMT orally active, and also increase the length and severity of a psilocybin trip.

Harmala Alkaloids are psychoactive, though not in the same way as psychedelics. There's also a good chance they are responsible for some of the nausea.

It can certainly be expected that the differing levels in Harmala Alkaloids can produce a different experience across two different mushrooms.

Whether we have any accurate way to measure or even produce fruits that contain particular amounts of these chemicals on a consistent basis, especially between different types of cubes, is a very different story.

Knowing this, we can also extrapolate that to mean that mushrooms could be capable of rendering DMT orally active. The downside is you wouldn't know whether your experience is due to the DMT or the psilocin.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: karri0n]
    #27189268 - 02/06/21 08:02 AM (3 years, 9 days ago)

If the DMT and psilocin are indistinguishable upon assay, does it matter which is present? Is 4-HO-DMT a better trip than 5-HO-DMT? I don’t know and I’m not sure anyone has a real answer.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: Pastywhyte] * 1
    #27189271 - 02/06/21 08:04 AM (3 years, 9 days ago)

Expectations are the biggest thing that affects a strain's trip character.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27189337 - 02/06/21 08:58 AM (3 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Expectations are the biggest thing that affects a strain's trip character.




Nothing like not seeing a forest cause of all the trees in it.


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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27190183 - 02/06/21 06:16 PM (3 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
If the DMT and psilocin are indistinguishable upon assay, does it matter which is present? Is 4-HO-DMT a better trip than 5-HO-DMT? I don’t know and I’m not sure anyone has a real answer.




Are you talking DMT(NN-DMT) or Bufotenin(5-ho-dmt)? Bufotenin is in some(or possibly trace amounts in many/all) active mushrooms but I'm not aware of DMT in any.

Or are you referencing the Harmala Alkaloids? Mushrooms have that component of ayahuasca, not the DMT component. Harmaline and harmane.



Psilohuasca (mushrooms + dmt + maoi)is a thing, but I haven't tried it. I'd bet there are people on this forum who have, and I'd also bet it feels different than either DMT or Psilocin on their own. I don't think it would be the same in assay.

I would love to try DMT, and it's reportedly quite different from Psilocin, so I don't think a combination would be indistinguishable from the constituents separately.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: karri0n]
    #27190259 - 02/06/21 06:58 PM (3 years, 9 days ago)

Reportedly isn't a quantifiable metric. I'm not saying anything definitive other than I simply don't trust peoples anecdotes as much as I do my own observations, and even those are clouded by perspective.

Mushrooms likely have compounds we haven't found yet but there is no point speculating on their impact until we do, and run tests. Lots of study to be done before any of this is anything more than conjecture and mental masturbation.


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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27190346 - 02/06/21 07:54 PM (3 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Reportedly isn't a quantifiable metric. I'm not saying anything definitive other than I simply don't trust peoples anecdotes as much as I do my own observations, and even those are clouded by perspective.

Mushrooms likely have compounds we haven't found yet but there is no point speculating on their impact until we do, and run tests. Lots of study to be done before any of this is anything more than conjecture and mental masturbation.




Are you saying that in your experience at high doses DMT and psilocybin/Psilocin are indistiguishable?

I can certainly understand how that's possible considering the mechanics involved and wouldn't argue against something that you were there for and I wasn't, but it definitely isn't what most anecdotes or scientific study seem to indicate.

The affects of psychedelics are mostly experiential and subjective, so "quantifiable metrics" aren't something we can really easily come by using a typical model for pharmacological studies, unless you are talking about symptomatic relief of some sort.

Saying DMT and psilocybin have exactly the same effects flies in the face of most literature and experience reports, so at what point can "reportedly" be something acceptable in that regard?


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Edited by karri0n (02/06/21 07:56 PM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: what other compounds, chemicals give a strain's trip's character? [Re: karri0n]
    #27190517 - 02/06/21 09:29 PM (3 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

karri0n said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Reportedly isn't a quantifiable metric. I'm not saying anything definitive other than I simply don't trust peoples anecdotes as much as I do my own observations, and even those are clouded by perspective.

Mushrooms likely have compounds we haven't found yet but there is no point speculating on their impact until we do, and run tests. Lots of study to be done before any of this is anything more than conjecture and mental masturbation.




Are you saying that in your experience at high doses DMT and psilocybin/Psilocin are indistiguishable?

I can certainly understand how that's possible considering the mechanics involved and wouldn't argue against something that you were there for and I wasn't, but it definitely isn't what most anecdotes or scientific study seem to indicate.

The affects of psychedelics are mostly experiential and subjective, so "quantifiable metrics" aren't something we can really easily come by using a typical model for pharmacological studies, unless you are talking about symptomatic relief of some sort.

Saying DMT and psilocybin have exactly the same effects flies in the face of most literature and experience reports, so at what point can "reportedly" be something acceptable in that regard?




What literature? Experience Reports? I'm sorry but I take most of what's available on the subject with a rather large grain of salt. But that strawman argument aside, I don't believe I said they have "exactly the same effects." I said (or at least tried to say) that the effects in concert will likely be indistiguishable. But I'm also not looking to convince some level 9 shamans on the internet that the scientific method can be used to unpack the trip reports of 1000's of Wooks with too much time on their hands.

I'm betting that if I gave someone 50 mg of 4ACO, 2 grams of dry Pan cyans, and 50 ug of LSD all mixed up in a cocktail, 99% of people in a blind taste test couldn't tell me exactly what they took other than it was a psyche.


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