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Blazer Man
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Day 10 Colonization of Substrate
#26984999 - 10/14/20 12:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is my FIRST POST AND FIRST TUB! I am on day ten since I moved my GS to my tub. Temps range between 66F and 69F. My RH says 99.7 on my Ink Bird humidity reader. I have natural light. I am noticing a little yellowing, but I think it is piss. I did have one mold spot so I sterilized a spoon, my hands and area with alcohol and dug it out (bottom center of first pic). Does this batch look normal and should I now case with coco coir or give it a few days? I am trying to be as patient as I can, but my mycelium does not look like it is trying to pin. Yesterday I started introduced a little FAE via a computer fan mounted on my bin (the air runs through filters to limit contam). Give me your feedback and or REASSURANCE please. I have done so much research and I really want to be able to master this science! Thank you all!

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tryptkaloids
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Blazer Man]
#26985030 - 10/14/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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May be the lighting but it looks pink
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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tryptkaloids
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: tryptkaloids]
#26985035 - 10/14/20 12:21 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Computer fan and hygrometer won't help you.
Myc doesn't piss, and alcohol doesn't sterilize, it sanitizes
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Blazer Man
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: tryptkaloids]
#26985046 - 10/14/20 12:29 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks for the reply. I know experienced people hate answering these questions. It is definitely not pink in person. Actually, it is mostly white with a little bit of yellowing. From what I have read, my temps are not perfect, but I don't have a choice since they are in my basement so I know that will slow down growth. 68F is the best I can do down there. I seem to have good exudate and such. Maybe I am just looking to hear someone say "it looks ok, keep going" (hopefully they mean it too ha).
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Justweed
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Blazer Man]
#26985062 - 10/14/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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You've already encountered contaminant, the yellow piss is a sign that you most likely have more. Don't case that, it'll allow the contaminant to breed more. Set aside outside of your grow area if you don't want to throw it out.
--------------------
  Keep 'em high and tight guys....
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footpath
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Blazer Man]
#26985070 - 10/14/20 12:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's hard to say for sure because of the image quality and the water droplets all over the surface. From my eyes, as well, there are some yellow and red hues going on. If I had to guess, I'd say it looks pretty marshmallowy, which usually is indicative of a bacterial contamination. You can still pull some fruits with a bacterial contamination, so, I'd say let it go - see if it fruits, but don't expect much. 10 days is still on the early side to be expecting pins. Also, 68˚F is not too low for them to perform well. Also also, ease up on the misting.
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Blazer Man
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: footpath]
#26985094 - 10/14/20 12:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I turned off my LED strip and took another couple of pictures. I used spores from a popular vendor, a grain bag from another popular vendor. I sanitized and cleaned everything and did not open my tub until 2 days ago. If I have contams it would be devastating because I did this so carefully not to get contams. Anyway, I think these pics are better.
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Munchauzen


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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Blazer Man]
#26985149 - 10/14/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Blazer Man said: I turned off my LED strip and took another couple of pictures. I used spores from a popular vendor, a grain bag from another popular vendor. I sanitized and cleaned everything and did not open my tub until 2 days ago. If I have contams it would be devastating because I did this so carefully not to get contams. Anyway, I think these pics are better.

Shooting spores on to grains has a high chance for contamination. Doesn't matter who made the syringe.
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Greens21
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Munchauzen]
#26985213 - 10/14/20 01:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Munchauzen said:
Shooting spores on to grains has a high chance for contamination. Doesn't matter who made the syringe.
This is super interesting to me, because I haven’t been active on this site for 13 years, and back then, inoculating grain with a syringe was pretty much the standard, but I see people saying this pretty much every day here now.
I understand that knowledge changes as the years go on, but I continued to do grows every year or so without using this site over those 13 years, and seeing that I continued to use the methods I learned back then, I’ve probably inoculated 150 or so grain jars from syringe and have had zero percent contamination. Never lost a single jar or tub.
Maybe it’s that sterile methods can be laxxed a bit if you’re using agar and that makes life easier, but considering my personal experience I find it hard to believe that inoculating grains with spores has a “very high” contam rate as long as it’s done correctly.
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
Edited by Greens21 (10/14/20 02:10 PM)
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Munchauzen


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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Greens21]
#26985223 - 10/14/20 02:07 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Consider yourself lucky. Facts are spores are never aseptic.
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Greens21
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Munchauzen]
#26985238 - 10/14/20 02:12 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sure, but you can create conditions that are good for spores and bad for contaminates.
Maybe I am just lucky, obviously even with my 150+ inocced jars you have way more experience than I do, but 0 out of 150 still kind of seems to be beyond just beating the odds.
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
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Munchauzen


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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Greens21] 1
#26985306 - 10/14/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not really a topic up for discussion TBH. If you wanna shoot spores on grains, great. But it's not a tek we recommend here for multiple reasons and you'll continue to get resistance from other members here if you keep suggesting it. We police our community for the best methods and practices to ensure success, not the methods that sorta work sometimes for lucky people. Countless grows, probably in the thousands by now, have shown conclusively that spores on grains is a significant contamination vector.
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Greens21
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Munchauzen]
#26985331 - 10/14/20 02:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sure, now that everyone recommends no incubation and storing jars in ambient light, I’m sure that spore syringes don’t work well in those situations where agar does, but the reason they were recommended back then is because they worked for inoculations from syringe or print which is how 95% of the community was doing it.
Im not arguing that agar isn’t better and safer, but there are various reasons that people can’t afford to/don’t want to commit to agar, and if there are methods of syringe inoculation that do work well, they should be available to people who need them rather than stifled because there are more expensive and more time consuming methods that have similar success rates with less attention to detail.
It wasn’t my intention to derail the thread, I won’t have anything to say beyond this, I just figured it’s worth it for people to know that people made monster grows with low contamination rates before agar was widespread and they still do, it just has to be done right.
Edited by Greens21 (10/14/20 03:20 PM)
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Blazer Man
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Greens21]
#26985398 - 10/14/20 03:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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SOOOO now that we have gotten off topic, HAHA, is this a general consensus that my batch is contaminated? Dang nabbit...
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Greens21
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Blazer Man]
#26985405 - 10/14/20 03:41 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Given that I have zero experience with contams, I can’t help you, other than to say that it doesn’t really look like any healthy grow I’ve ever had.
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
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Blazer Man
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Blazer Man]
#26985412 - 10/14/20 03:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Also, I am just starting so there is not any other method of obtaining spores other than syringes. Unless I am wrong?
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Blazer Man]
#26985422 - 10/14/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Prints & swabs.
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Greens21
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Blazer Man]
#26985429 - 10/14/20 03:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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The recommendation is that you use spores to inoculate agar, then you can use agar to isolate mycelium away from contaminates, then use that mycelium to inoculate grain. It’s likely superior to any method of direct inoculation, but if you need a tek that works very well without the extra time and expense of agar and petri dishes and still air boxes etc just PM me and I’ll explain how to successfully inoculate from syringe, because apparently no one else here will do it and will instead call you stupid for not wanting to buy a bunch of extra stuff
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One of Us
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Greens21]
#26985431 - 10/14/20 03:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Greens21 said: Given that I have zero experience with contams, I can’t help you, other than to say that it doesn’t really look like any healthy grow I’ve ever had.
You ain't gotta lie to kick it. I still think you're cool no matter how many of your syringe to grains failed
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Greens21
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: One of Us]
#26985432 - 10/14/20 03:57 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Right, because it logically makes sense that I’d be here defending a method that failed repeatedly over 13 years
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,342
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Greens21]
#26985447 - 10/14/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well it's failed time and time again for people that aren't you... So.... Do we go on one person's experience, or the thousands of grows that have been posted here? Which would you rely on? A single personal anecdote or repeated documentation from multiple sources?
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Greens21
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Munchauzen]
#26985463 - 10/14/20 04:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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It’s failed time and again for people that store their jars the same way they would if they had inoculated with agar, which isn’t surprising that it doesn’t work, so...
Browse very old posts on this site. There was a time that almost no one was using agar. Do you think they all had “very high” contam rates? No, agar just proved to be the superior method and then as people started trying to combine syringe teks with agar teks they started having massive problems. Syringe teks exist and agar teks exist. The agar teks probably result in 3-4 day faster colonization in subsequent grows if your plan is to continue indefinitely, but not everybody plans to continue indefinitely, or wants to spend the extra 80-100 bucks on top of everything else they purchased to do their first grow. And it’s silly to pretend like syringe teks just fail at massive rates when the real reason they aren’t recommended anymore is because they take slightly longer than agar and require slightly more attention to detail during germination and colonization.
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
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One of Us
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Greens21]
#26985465 - 10/14/20 04:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Who said you were being logical?
Ok, I'll stop.
But claiming over 150 jars without contam without seeing a contam is not really possible. I don't think anyone here has never seen a contam (besides those who have never grown). But you could be the one, Neo
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Greens21
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: One of Us]
#26985479 - 10/14/20 04:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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The only time I ever saw a contam was with my very first BRF grow using a tek I got off some “shroom wizard” site 15 years ago.
Once I found this site I used a tek that has since been deleted to make self-healing inoculation port jars using WBS. Flame-sterilize the needle and stick into an alcohol-soaked makeup sponge (yes), and inoculate without the needle or jar’s contents ever coming into contact with unsterile air.
The jars are stored at incubation temperatures in complete darkness, which both promotes mycelial growth and inhibits bacterial and mold growth.
My last grow was literally done in the shower of a 30-year old RV while I was traveling around the country. Several people using the toilet a couple feet away from the grow the entire time, from inoculation to harvest, with zero contaminates and thousands of dollars made at festivals.
You think you know what you’re accusing me of, but you don’t.
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
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Blazer Man
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Greens21]
#26985495 - 10/14/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is no need to argue over my project or who has done what. It's a hobby for crying out loud. Greens21, I messaged you. Holler when you get a chance.
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One of Us
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Blazer Man]
#26985506 - 10/14/20 04:32 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I agree, this isn't the place.
Greens, you should start a new thread where you can describe this tek of yours and change the world. No one will ever see contams again. Don't be greedy with your trade secrets.
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Greens21
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: One of Us]
#26985518 - 10/14/20 04:39 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I had actually been thinking about creating a tek, but our other friend in this thread made it clear that teks are “policed.” Since it’s largely derived from a tek that’s been deleted from the site since I stopped visiting, I assume it doesn’t fit the narrative of “only agar” and will get removed.
If there’s some assurance this wouldn’t happen and be a complete waste of my time, I’d be happy to create a tek and even a grow log using it.
Also, this is only for MS syringe inoculation. While it may lead to reduced/no contaminates, MS won’t be the preferred method of growing for most growers. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t work the way I’ve been saying, though.
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
Edited by Greens21 (10/14/20 04:54 PM)
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Munchauzen


Registered: 06/22/11
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Greens21]
#26985693 - 10/14/20 05:58 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Blazer Man said: There is no need to argue over my project or who has done what. It's a hobby for crying out loud. Greens21, I messaged you. Holler when you get a chance.
Part of the culture of shroomery is advocating for the best methods with the least amount of issues. Spores to grains falls pretty far outside the circle of accepted methods. As you are having issues with contaminates, I'm just pointing out one of the major vectors that could be a cause for this.
Also, don't ever cut a chunk of mold out of a substrate. You're making it 10x worse by doing so. There are now fragmented mold particles colonizing all across the surface of your tub. In a few days, there will be much more mold than there was before you cut it out. The proper way to deal with mold is to cover it a generous amount of salt, cover the salt with paper towels to soak up the water thats going to ooze from it, and harvest what fruit you have ASAP, then pitch the container. There is no removing of mold, only removing of moldy tubs.
Quote:
Greens21 said: I had actually been thinking about creating a tek, but our other friend in this thread made it clear that teks are “policed.” Since it’s largely derived from a tek that’s been deleted from the site since I stopped visiting, I assume it doesn’t fit the narrative of “only agar” and will get removed.
If there’s some assurance this wouldn’t happen and be a complete waste of my time, I’d be happy to create a tek and even a grow log using it.
Also, this is only for MS syringe inoculation. While it may lead to reduced/no contaminates, MS won’t be the preferred method of growing for most growers. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t work the way I’ve been saying, though.
some confidence you have in your method. post it up for others to try it out, or just drop it already. teks don't get removed for being subpar. they only get removed for breaking the forum rules.
Edited by Munchauzen (10/14/20 07:03 PM)
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One of Us
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Greens21]
#26985715 - 10/14/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm sure I'm not the only one interested to hear your method, so there is that. You definitely sound confident.
I too first started cultivating around thirteen years ago, but I took a long break and was shocked to see all the changes, and new discoveries.
I'll tell you what, if you write a tek, I will give it a try and share my results. Its gotta be reliably reproducible, right?
I assume you make your own syringes, right? That would be expensive if you didn't. Much more so than the cost of starting agar (about $50, maybe, assuming you have a PC already for your grains). After perfecting sterile technique you'll have limitless spawn.
So many more questions, but I'll save that for your own thread.
XXX'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
to the OP, I am super sorry, I didn't realize no one really answered your questions.
It is pretty hard to see, but if you have already cut mold out, than you likely have contams throughout. Since this is your first grow, if you really want to see fruits without starting over you can just leave it be. Mold will probably show up again, but you might get enough for a few trips before it completely takes over. The shrooms are still fine to eat unless there is mold growing directly on them.
It could be possible you get nothing, but it doesn't hurt to try. Watch it and let it be a learning experience. You'll definitely know when you NEED to throw it out.
Some things to point out: once you have healthy, fully colonized grain, you no longer have to worry much about contamination. Coir is very contam resistant. So the heating of the spoon and the filter on the fan are uneeded. Take a look at a specific tek if you want to really be successful. Modern teks work flawlessly without any need for any major modification done on the fly, like your fan setup. Make sure any information you use is recent and not from a 20 year old thread.
Good luck and welcome to The Shroomery.
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Blazer Man
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: One of Us]
#26987405 - 10/15/20 04:57 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Update for those who are interested. My tub died. Green mold. I am tossing and starting over. Thanks to those who helped.
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smalltalk_canceled
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Re: Day 10 Colonization of Substrate [Re: Blazer Man] 1
#26987488 - 10/15/20 06:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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RIP

Epitaph
Here lies a brave soldier.
He was born when Blazer man sprinkled spores on grains in 2020.
When the mold-mycelium wars broke out, blazer man's tub enlisted in the expeditionary force for the mycelium minute men, even though he was only an infant, less than a year old.
Mycelium can fight, but it cant always win. Blaze man's tub died selflessly in the mold-mycelia wars of 2020. Childless, and unmarried. Defending a half colonized tub from the hordes of Mong Trichula, he fell on his post. He will not continue in the great outdors, like so many spent tubs, but go straight to heaven. Where the RH is always 99%.
His dying wish was for blaze man to learn agar.
Sleep now soldier, we'll take it from here.
-------------------- Willpower is the one true virtue
  
Edited by smalltalk_canceled (10/15/20 06:38 PM)
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