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karri0n
Mind Traveller



Registered: 08/29/20
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988391 - 10/16/20 12:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: they aren't cocksure enough to pretend that they'll never get contams just because they buy clean spawn and in fact actively work to avoid it in ways people here are lucky to not.
Are you saying shroomery users aren't producing spawn but buying it premade? Or this is what commercial farms are doing?
Does this mean they work actively to avoid assuming their spawn is clean and we are lucky to not have to?
Or we don't take certain active precautions and we are lucky that we don't take these precautions because... something?
Wouldn't doing this "active avoidance work" be beneficial for us?
I'm not trying to be cheeky, it's just that some of your sentences come off a bit difficult to understand, Like you are speaking quickly or expecting a certain level of basic understanding I don't have.
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Panaeolus Bisporus
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Camera93
We got dicks like Jesus



Registered: 08/15/18
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: karri0n]
#26988405 - 10/16/20 12:56 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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what is the general argument being made?
I am having a hard time following along, mostly cause this conversation took place across like 3 threads.
From what I think I understand: The majority of members here chime in that a moldy sub is the result of using "bad spawn" bad spawn meaning anything from insufficiently sterilizing the grain, botching the inoculation, or missing a competitor riding along on agar/lc. If using a substrate that requires proper pasteurization, then possibly that process was botched
The counter argument being that people are to quick to parrot clean spawn, blaming what I posted above.
Its here I am getting lost, are we arguing that given all of the above was achieved properly, that a tub could still mold from.....? spore load of the area?
-------------------- All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I’m fine. Whatever you decide won’t really impact our survival Close your eyes, and do the best that you can
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Psicomb


Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Camera93]
#26988408 - 10/16/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes I believe that is the argument. Unless I'm misunderstanding too
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
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footpath
ὕδωρχοίρος

Registered: 07/16/19
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Camera93]
#26988419 - 10/16/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'll try not to speak for anybody, but, yes. That environment is a vector of contamination and that it's misleading/incomplete to say that clean spawn is the explicit factor in success. Honestly, a lot of it is just fumbling over contextualization and some people not acknowledging a comprehensive view of some issues.
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karri0n
Mind Traveller



Registered: 08/29/20
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Camera93]
#26988432 - 10/16/20 01:07 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Camera93 said: what is the general argument being made?
I am having a hard time following along, mostly cause this conversation took place across like 3 threads.
From what I think I understand: The majority of members here chime in that a moldy sub is the result of using "bad spawn" bad spawn meaning anything from insufficiently sterilizing the grain, botching the inoculation, or missing a competitor riding along on agar/lc. If using a substrate that requires proper pasteurization, then possibly that process was botched
The counter argument being that people are to quick to parrot clean spawn, blaming what I posted above.
Its here I am getting lost, are we arguing that given all of the above was achieved properly, that a tub could still mold from.....? spore load of the area?
I'd say the OP posits that, SPECIFICALLY in regard to Trichoderma and P. Cubensis:
1. Having Trichoderma that turns green(thus sporulating) in your growing area has a *very low chance* of infesting a tub that was put together with clean spawn that had truly fully colonized the spawn, using properly prepared substrate.
2. Contamination is much more likely to be caused by bad spawn or improper substrate prep(in the case of nutritious substrates) than by latent trichoderma spore load in the fruiting room. The trich probably got to the grain before it was fully colonized with mycelium.
3. You really still dont want a bunch of fucking mold growing everywhere so throw it out.
Even in OP we can see one "healthy" bag where trich is in one corner. Terms like "always", "impossible", "never", etc. are to be avoided, as in most walks of life.
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Panaeolus Bisporus
Edited by karri0n (10/16/20 01:08 PM)
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Violet


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: karri0n]
#26988438 - 10/16/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
karri0n said: Are you saying shroomery users aren't producing spawn but buying it premade? Or this is what commercial farms are doing?
the latter, obviously.
Quote:
karri0n said: Does this mean they work actively to avoid assuming their spawn is clean and we are lucky to not have to?
No, they can assume with relative safety their professionally made spawn is clean, they work to reduce contaminations in the fruiting stage (which, to hammer this point the fuck home, are absolutely fuckin possible) because of slim profit margins in mass agriculture.
Quote:
karri0n said: Or we don't take certain active precautions and we are lucky that we don't take these precautions because... something?
It's never a big deal to throw out a contaminated sub to anyone but the noob who is desperately attached to the success of their first and worst grow. As said above, this isn't the case for commercial farms which usually know better than forum amateurs.
Quote:
karri0n said: Wouldn't doing this "active avoidance work" be beneficial for us?
Well, the things I mentioned doing have been not only "beneficial" but entirely necessary for me.
And as a gourmet mushroom cultivator, I recommend ALL people growing more than just a little to implement home filtration for a variety of reasons, this has been covered well by pretty much everyone. Filtration is inherently good, even if it doesn't make all your grows never mold.
...
Openly stating here that certain tedious and circular users won't be getting more responses from me.
Forgive me, but I really only have so much energy for this. People who aren't even getting what I'm saying are asking me to bring the level of the topic down to somewhere it doesn't belong. This isn't a conversation for beginners, it's a reaction to and criticism of specific people who have gone from knowing the most important troubleshooting steps to making sweeping claims that they're the only troubleshooting steps there ever are.
I'm far from the only person that says that environmental contams can absolutely be a problem if bad enough and you have plenty of TCs and other cultivators you can hound about it if you're not happy with my answers,
but I have said A WHOLE DAMN LOT already,
and am absolutely exhausted with things like having to repeatedly explain the difference between "fresh air exchange" and "blowing in so much dryness that germinating mold dies.”
I mean cmon, “are you saying shroomeey members are buying spawn?”? Really???
I'm just plain ole unwilling to beat this to fucking death forever. If you don't think environmental contamination is an issue, then I allow you to be of that exclusively anecdotal OPINION. But I spoke my peace about that being exactly what it is.
As far as beginners and non-advisers need to know, everyone worth their salt here is saying that clean spawn is critical to all grows and the overwhelming most likely cause of contamination at least while clean spawn preparation is being learned.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (10/16/20 01:32 PM)
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,274
Loc: where?
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988471 - 10/16/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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You're so much fun v
Quote:
I'm just plain ole unwilling to beat this to fucking death forever
As you beat this dead horse forever.
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Violet


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: mushboy] 1
#26988474 - 10/16/20 01:33 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I remember when mods here used to give people warnings for aimless, dumb, off-topic attack comments like yours.
I’m fully aware this topic has been beaten to death here and I’m done doing it, so, your point?
As other people try to drag it on but I don’t, they ask question after errant question, but you say this about literally only me?
You haven’t changed much I see.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Psicomb


Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988496 - 10/16/20 01:46 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I dunno if you're referring to me, Violet, but I am simply still having trouble understanding why you perceive the OP as irrelevant and how we can demonstrate that it is in terms of home experimentation beyond letting moldy tub sit in the same room as clean ones for months. As far as I can tell it really is relevant and holds quite a bit of value for all of us cubensis bedroom farmers.
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
Edited by Psicomb (10/16/20 01:48 PM)
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Violet


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988518 - 10/16/20 01:56 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah that’s what I meant by circular.
From my very first sentence here:
Quote:
Violet said: [...] having sources of mold spores near clean substrates doesn't mean much except that local spores don't *guarantee* a contamination which is a high-tier duh.
Maybe it isn’t such a duh to beginners who haven’t yet fully grasped how these contams are virtually everywhere, but a thread like this does nothing that simply telling them that everyday fact doesn’t.
Alright that’s the last time I’m going to simply repeat something or indulge bizarre or erroneous prods
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Psicomb]
#26988520 - 10/16/20 01:56 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Imo for bedroom cultivators always, always go back to your spawn. Going down a rabbit hole of air ruining grows is really a waste of time for most of us.
Just focus on your spawn. Ignore the evil air.
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Violet


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: mushboy]
#26988528 - 10/16/20 02:00 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Whereas no doubt that’s the best overall advice, it would have been bad or at least incredibly unhelpful and insufficient advice given to me while I was troubleshooting my personal issues in the past. That’s something this forum could stand to remember (or realize, in the case of self-assures deniers), even the people who have dumb vendettas against me as an individual.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988543 - 10/16/20 02:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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In the past?
You should of been asked to post pics of your cultures, jars, everything. Like we ask people to do now. Hopefully someone did? But I remember this place 10-15yrs ago. Not too many people took the time to personally answer repeated questions all damn day back then.. but fukkit.
Past is in the past, right?
Edited by mushboy (10/16/20 02:11 PM)
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Violet


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: mushboy]
#26988546 - 10/16/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fortunately yes, because I found solutions to my former problems that this forum literally never advocates.
Thinking this forum doesn’t have such shortcomings is perhaps its biggest one.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Psicomb


Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988554 - 10/16/20 02:13 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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What I wonder is how much gnarlier can it get for bedroom cultivators than allowing green tubs to flourish for months side by side with clean tubs in varying stages of growth? Like how much more can one go to try to contaminate their tubs? Josex had black mold all over his crack shack cultivation-only apartment and somehow his tubs were always okay once he put clean spawn to substrate. Those to me seem like really solid evidence based approaches
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
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mushboy
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988556 - 10/16/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cool I'm glad you didnt rely on one source for all your answers
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One of Us
Stranger



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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988560 - 10/16/20 02:20 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think that the OP, the picture and countless others' experiences/anecdotal evidence is pretty damn conclusive *FOR TRICH* (at least). Its absurd to think otherwise.
Also josexs experience is pretty compelling as well. With whatever mold(s) he was dealing with
Violet has apparently had problems with other molds, however, so I will keep an open mind that maybe other molds can be much more pervasive if allowed to get outta hand. But trich? Nah
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: mushboy]
#26988561 - 10/16/20 02:20 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Everyone's got different variables.
I open air fruited(and spawned no lids ever)these in a room with 4 cats, cat box and green mold on the open window screens and moldy tubs nearby. I always got some level of mold going on

Doesnt mean you should rely on it but... give it a try
Edited by mushboy (10/16/20 02:23 PM)
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Violet


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: mushboy]
#26988575 - 10/16/20 02:29 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oooohhhhh nooooooo someone actually did it, someone brought up their animals as support aaaaahhhhhhh dsfargegekeoxjcixoam 
Quote:
Violet said: Hey, at least I haven't seen anybody talk about how they don't get moldy subs despite all the *DOGS* in their house so this conversation has improved at least that little bit since the days of FrankHorrigan 
I absolutely take this back, this all is every bit as dumb as it ever was And once again someone with a tag to boot omgggggglolwifucisjwhso
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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mushboy
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988582 - 10/16/20 02:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Then go somewhere else
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