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Psicomb


Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988017 - 10/16/20 07:22 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm confused. I thought FAE was proven to be a mold inhibitor? I thought that's why mold isnt growing on everything outdoors, because the FAE is blowing it around (obviously a very simplified version of everything).
Violet, arent you implying that it actually was your spawn if you are saying you couldn't get a clean plate until you switched to a flow hood at your spot? I feel like expanding hidden nasties, this leading to contams all the time, could be the issue if this was your case, no?
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
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Violet


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Psicomb]
#26988149 - 10/16/20 09:52 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fresh air exchange does help prevent mold by periodically/gradually replacing the stagnant CO2-heavy air that mold love, but plenty of fresh air exchange can be provided while also keeping humidity levels high enough for mold to love too, tho normally it's fine because the mycelium can do the rest of the job defending itself. Doing what I described dries up and kills young mold every day before it has a chance to establish itself, when apparently the myc otherwise can't deal with local contams for long, as per Stamets. It's not just "fresh air exchange."
Outside air moving around pretty much does both, but we don't want our mushroom cakes just plain ole exposed to open outside air as if we just plopped them on the dirt. They'd dry up in no time so we contain them to retain moisture and regulate airflow to create both worlds. What I'm describing would be kindof like *not* regulating airflow and maintaining humidity for moisture, for just long enough to do harm to any early mold but (ideally) not to my large subs with their large water capacities.
This does nothing to impact mold that's already established and visible, at that point it's too late. Trying to do this to stop that mold will more likely weaken your mushroom mycelium to it first, mold won't give a fuck anymore.
People would really benefit from reading materials like Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms (at least about the common cultivars because damn is it big, when not reading mine I use it as a cinderblock in my goddamn house) because not everything fits neatly within the short little platitudes we say around amateur cubensis cultivation.
*** I never said I "couldn't get a clean plate until I switched to a flow hood" nor did I have much issue identifying when my jars were contaminated after learning just like anybody else. You're misreading my response to what josex said about using his SAB with his local contaminants. I just plain old hated SABs but also yes my contamination rate was higher before sterile air and I was tired of wasting materials.
"aren't you implying it was actually your spawn-" Actually my spawn that what? Was contaminated? I try to be pretty clear that regardless of brag-worthy success rates with plates and spawn I still had my same issues with inoculating and colonizing substrates in open air, so what you're referring to would only be applicable to the very smallest and earliest fraction of my nine years as a cultivator, and does not imply my problem has been with spawn all along.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (10/16/20 11:09 AM)
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988208 - 10/16/20 10:45 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ive been embracing the trich a little more than ive wanted to lately 🤪
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Violet


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: eatyualive]
#26988237 - 10/16/20 11:07 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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[Cartman's mom voice]: WhatwhatwhaaaaAAAAT?
Don't you know how to make clean spawn by now, eat???!?!!?!1
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Smartattack
C'mon man



Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,775
Loc: A thought
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988256 - 10/16/20 11:22 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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What he means to say is " don't you know how to control your sporeload by now"?
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,274
Loc: where?
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Kyle's mom
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karri0n
Mind Traveller



Registered: 08/29/20
Posts: 698
Last seen: 15 days, 7 hours
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Munchauzen]
#26988272 - 10/16/20 11:31 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: this proved nothing whatsoever.
Quote:
Munchauzen said: Having the stuff in the same room doesn't prove much to me.
As someone who has read much more than experienced in this hobby, I can say definitively this helps dispel what I would consider to be a myth.
An understanding that a new person gleans, in my experience, learning mush cult in 2019-2020, that if you ever get trich in your growing area you're in for an all-day cleaning and scrubdown session if you want to ever successfully fruit in that room again. And you still might be better off just moving out of your house.
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Panaeolus Bisporus
Edited by karri0n (10/16/20 11:31 AM)
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Violet


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: karri0n]
#26988288 - 10/16/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: Kyle's mom
Thanks, my b.
Quote:
Smartattack said: What he means to say is " don't you know how to control your sporeload by now"?
low-tier
Quote:
karri0n said: As someone who has read much more than experienced in this hobby, I can say definitively this helps dispel what I would consider to be a myth.
An understanding that a new person gleans, in my experience, learning mush cult in 2019-2020, that if you ever get trich in your growing area you're in for an all-day cleaning and scrubdown session if you want to ever successfully fruit in that room again. And you still might be better off just moving out of your house.
Sure, but the problem is that this forum goes beyond "dispelling a myth" to "willfully denying evident possibilities" and it doesn't have to be the latter to do the former
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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karri0n
Mind Traveller



Registered: 08/29/20
Posts: 698
Last seen: 15 days, 7 hours
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988296 - 10/16/20 11:45 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
Sure, but the problem is that this forum goes beyond "dispelling a myth" to "willfully denying evident possibilities" and it doesn't have to be the latter to do the former
I get it. There is a balance needed there.
I think unless we never ever see green in anyone's tub again we might not have to worry about people being convinced anyone is saying trich is perfectly harmless to keep around.
There is a lot of doom and gloom info out there warning about contam. Scary stuff gets better ratings in general. I'm still trying to figure out if I'm in danger of becoming exposed to botulinum toxin when I screw up a spawn jar.
Edited by karri0n (10/16/20 11:48 AM)
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Psicomb


Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988300 - 10/16/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is there anything you can think of that would work as an even more credible experiment, violet? I feel like keeping green subs inches from non-contaminated substrates with continuous success is pretty solid. There may be some exceptions to the rule about nasties in the grow room but I havent found any proof it will harm things besides anecdotes as well
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
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Violet


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Psicomb]
#26988315 - 10/16/20 12:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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That question has been pretty much covered in this thread already, psicomvb.
I mean not right off hand at least if at all, but you see, my angle doesn't rely on outright denying contrary anecdotes (including from people like eatyualive, pastywhite, and countless more) while asserting that something that hasn't happened to me yet (or frankly that I didn't recognize if it did) cannot happen at all, so as I said before....
Quote:
Violet said:
Quote:
Smartattack said: Im at ease in being on the side of the fence Im on, given the whole proving a negative conundrum. If presence of trich in the grow space is an issue, luckily the burden of proof is on those who state so.
Well between the work of scientists and professional mushroom farmers, that hasn't appeared very difficult for us to do, not that anonymous forum randos will necessarily take note accordingly.
[...] rather it's not having substrates near contams also contam that doesn't "prove the negative" in the way I believe you meant it. Something not happening in a thousand incidents of anecdotal experience won't prove it can't happen in the next much less in a different scenario entirely.
But I suppose whenever your knee-jerk reaction to seeing contamination is "bad spawn, I'm never wrong" then you can always easily convince yourself that opposing evidence is supporting evidence.
Especially when the nature of your initial contam is in question in the first place....
I'd also like to add that in that other thread once OP gave more information I told them their problem was probably with bacterial spawn
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Psicomb


Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988331 - 10/16/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's hard to digest all those long posts and then try to guess what your idea of a good experiment is. Most of it is just you stating your personal experience as well. Can you just tell me?
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
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Violet


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Psicomb]
#26988332 - 10/16/20 12:15 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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... bro.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Psicomb


Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988336 - 10/16/20 12:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yo still waiting
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
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One of Us
Stranger



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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Psicomb] 1
#26988344 - 10/16/20 12:24 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think maybe an experiment can be done like the pic of the moldy bag in the same tub as fine looking bags, but have the moldy bag in there with freshly spawned and not yet fully colonized substrates.
I think in that picture, by the time the mold showed up in the one bag, the others were pretty well colonized. Would be interesting to see the effect (if any) that having mold in such close proximity, but not physical contact, to freshly spawned coir.
Maybe you could run similar experiments with other mold species as well.
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Violet


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: One of Us]
#26988363 - 10/16/20 12:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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You still then run into the issue of people concluding that something not happening means it can't. It'd be a little easier if we as home cultivators knew nearly as much about our cultures, substrates, and more like professional farms do, where they aren't cocksure enough to pretend that they'll never get contams just because they buy clean spawn and in fact actively work to avoid it in ways people here are lucky to not. But then you still haven't found a foolproof way to transcend the confirmation biases of cocksure forum randos
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik


Registered: 07/13/20
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: One of Us]
#26988366 - 10/16/20 12:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Violet, these people like pictures. Just post some, it'll distract em for hours
-------------------- Willpower is the one true virtue
  
Edited by smalltalk_canceled (10/16/20 12:36 PM)
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Violet


Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Then people just say I had dirty spawn.
it shouldn't take some specious, hole-filled, inconclusive-by-nature home experiment to convince people to at least be a little open-minded, especially to some of our most experienced and trusted cultivators, professional mushroom farmers, and biological researchers.
Your ninja edit makes your comment even less helpful
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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footpath
ὕδωρχοίρος

Registered: 07/16/19
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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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That logic doesn't hold up well with all the embrace of the OP.
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Psicomb


Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: Embracing the trich. [Re: Violet]
#26988385 - 10/16/20 12:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: Besides, the best solution to suppress the successes of environmental contams is frequent air exchange and occasional humidity fluctuations, as outlined by Stamets in GGMM and as known by, like, every real cultivator worth more salt than forum randos that let their grow space get disgusting and still manage to grow Cubensis of all things. It seems from your OP you're doing those things just fine, so if anything you're indicating that environmental contam problems can often be dealt with simply via good technique, not that they are never a problem.
I'm just saying, reading a quote like this and then not being provided with like any decent counter experiment by that same person seems...odd. you shit on him a bit with that post basically. your experience is your experience and I know you're not new at all to this game, Violet, but cubes are illegal still and different species handle things differently and home experiments are basically all we have with this species
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
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