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Invisibleshroomiere

Registered: 10/13/20
Posts: 14
ID Request: Confirmed-Active, Mystery Paneolus (NW Europe)
    #26983589 - 10/13/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)



Hello Shroomerites! This is my first post, so please be gentle.

This patch was found locally to me, growing in overgrown grass/weeds near an old tree-stump that was also fruiting Honey Mushroom and Velvet Shank. Underlying soil is very clayish, but probably the patch they were growing on was rich in well-rotting wood.

I picked them as shown, and dutifully took spore prints: they were all deep, jet-black.

The gills did indeed look lightly spotty, as a Pan should.

They did not stain when bruised.

No ring margin visible. Stipes pale.

The caps distinctly changed colour as they dried to a light buff colour, starting with the peak of the cap.

'Mushroomy' smell, flavour not unlike a dried cubie.

I did some cautious bioassays: first a single cap (no effect), then (a few days later) 1/3 of the weight (possible mood elevation, that's all). A few days later, I ate the remaining weight, and had definite 'active' feels:

* Mild come-up anxiety/jitters
* Distinctly improved mood, though not to the level of 'euphoria'
* Distinctly improved color appreciation and colour saturation
* Color boundaries, like on road-signs, looked slightly broken or surreal
* Looking in mirrors was slightly surreal
* Duration and come-down timescale matched a psilocybin experience

All in all, very similar to a barely threshold microdose.

So far, it sounds like an active paneolus. But it doesn't look exactly like them, at least the pictures I can find. When I see Pans with 'striated' caps the striations look like leathery lining, not a series of parallel lines matching the gills under the cap.

These little shrooms, as they aged (I left a few of course) were so striated the older ones looked a little like Parasols or Mycena, whereas I can't find any images of Pans that look as striated as the images I'm sharing here, much less like a Mycena.

Any idea what I could have here? A distinctly striated, possible wood-rot-loving, non-staining paneolus?

I'm going to try growing some out on PDA. I don't have a microscope good enough to resolve the spores, and I don't have stains or slides to properly mount mushroom material so I didn't bother when they were fresh - the remaining shrooms outdoors are since gone.


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: ID Request: Confirmed-Active, Mystery Paneolus (NW Europe) [Re: shroomiere]
    #26983602 - 10/13/20 03:57 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Psathyrella, not active. You experienced a placebo effect


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Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


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Invisibleshroomiere


Registered: 10/13/20
Posts: 14
Re: ID Request: Confirmed-Active, Mystery Paneolus (NW Europe) [Re: Moria841]
    #26983628 - 10/13/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Well, firstly I'll say that it wouldn't be my first time having a threshold dose: I spent a few months microdosing previously and got used to the boundary. The colour and edge/boundary effects were pretty clear to me. But let's put that aside.

I considered Psathyrella, prior to bioassay. I consulted a book I have for my region which is fairly exhaustive about known native species. I tentatively ruled them out as:

* The mushrooms were strongly hygrophaneous, which is visible in the color boundary in the photos I've shared. Hygrophaneous-ness was not described as a trait of Psathyrella.
* The spore-prints I've taken are unambiguously black, whereas the descriptions for Psathyrella I have suggest 'brown-black' or 'purple-black', but I'm prepared to accept that one, too.
* There are few native Psathyrellas which grow on soil/grass, have no ring, no veil remnants, the right size and cap-shape, and the uneven coloration (forgetting hygrophany for a moment). The appearance is a better match, but they don't have spotty/mottled gills and black sporeprints.

The best match I could find among the Pans were Paneolina foenisecii, but SP is dark-brown-black and no mention of striations, and Paneolus fimicola which is SP black but smooth or fibrous-textured caps.


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Invisibleshroomiere


Registered: 10/13/20
Posts: 14
Re: ID Request: Confirmed-Active, Mystery Paneolus (NW Europe) [Re: shroomiere]
    #26983638 - 10/13/20 04:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Reading this: http://www.alpental.com/psms/PNWMushrooms/PictorialKey/Psathyrella.htm

..I'll also add that these were not at all fragile mushrooms and were easy to handle and dry. Apparently Psathyrella are very fragile.

I couldn't comment on the cellular cap thing which they both share: I tried breaking a corner of a cap to look for a pellicle and it broke more or less like any regular mushroom breaks, e.g. like an Agaricus might. Nothing seemed unusual to me about it.


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Offlinemycot
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Registered: 05/31/06
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Re: ID Request: Confirmed-Active, Mystery Paneolus (NW Europe) [Re: Moria841]
    #26983654 - 10/13/20 04:31 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moria841 said:
Psathyrella, not active. You experienced a placebo effect



Placebo effects are way more common than people think.
For a new non-bluing shroom you really want to trip hard to be anywhere near confident of activity.
But one really should not be eating shrooms which are very unidentified. This is a really BIG NONO and should NEVER be encouraged,  :thumbdown:  :shocked:  :nono:


Edited by mycot (10/13/20 04:41 PM)


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: ID Request: Confirmed-Active, Mystery Paneolus (NW Europe) [Re: mycot]
    #26983657 - 10/13/20 04:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

compare to Parasola conopilea


--------------------


Moria's Gymnopilus Guide


Edited by Moria841 (10/13/20 04:34 PM)


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Invisibleshroomiere


Registered: 10/13/20
Posts: 14
Re: ID Request: Confirmed-Active, Mystery Paneolus (NW Europe) [Re: mycot]
    #26983666 - 10/13/20 04:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:
Placebo effects are way more common than people think.




Granted: I've had 'em when microdosing. I'm willing to relent on that one for the sake of pursuing an ID, though I'm pretty confident of my own experience.

Quote:


For a new non-bluing shroom you really want to trip hard to be anywhere near confident of activity.




Perhaps if I were not dividing the collection to test for nausea or illness I'd have had more to test for activity. Perhaps next Fall. :smile:

Quote:


But one really should not be eating shrooms which are very unidentified. This is a really big Nono and should never be encouraged,  :thumbdown:  :shocked:  :nono:




I was pretty thorough in ruling out any known poisonous black-spored species in my region: there are some poisonous coprinus species but none even vaguely resemble these, and none are dangerously so. From the mottled gills and black spore print there was very little apparent risk. It seemed to me that a Pan of some kind was a safe bet, as the identification guides suggested 'striation' was not unusual.

It's only afterwards when I inspect what is meant by 'striation' in Pans, that it's clearly a different kind of striation. I was looking at striations due to gills under the cap, whereas it seems like striated pans usually have striation unrelated to the gill structure.

In any case I was pretty comfortable with the level of risk here. This isn't like hunting for white table mushrooms, and I was confident they weren't Galerinas.


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Invisibleshroomiere


Registered: 10/13/20
Posts: 14
Re: ID Request: Confirmed-Active, Mystery Paneolus (NW Europe) [Re: Moria841]
    #26983669 - 10/13/20 04:44 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moria841 said:
compare to Parasola conopilea




Closest match for gross appearance is Michael Kuo's photo here: http://www.mushroomexpert.com/parasola_conopilea.html

..but the striations are too fine, and the mushroom isn't "rooted": as can be seen in the image of the collected mushrooms, they had shallow "roots" (which does seem to be a feature shared by some Psathyrella, I'll grant you).


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: ID Request: Confirmed-Active, Mystery Paneolus (NW Europe) [Re: shroomiere]
    #26983678 - 10/13/20 04:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

It is, without a doubt, parasola or psathyrella and is not active


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Offlinemycot
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Re: ID Request: Confirmed-Active, Mystery Paneolus (NW Europe) [Re: shroomiere]
    #26983683 - 10/13/20 04:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I'd like some others to weigh this eating undesribed shrooms.
After all you were out by least a whole genus.


Edited by mycot (10/13/20 05:01 PM)


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Invisibleshroomiere


Registered: 10/13/20
Posts: 14
Re: ID Request: Confirmed-Active, Mystery Paneolus (NW Europe) [Re: shroomiere]
    #26983695 - 10/13/20 04:58 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Closest native matches I am finding in your suggested genuses:

Parasola kuehneri - though, not deeply lined except when aging, and no basal bulge to stem, taste and smell were not 'indistinct' as described. Still, possible match.
Psathyrella panaeoloides - Possible, bit too stout overall but mostly matching.
Psathyrella lutensis - Less convincing overall but deserves a mention. No veil remnants, spore prints too dark, but this is one of the few Psathyrella described as having a distinctly mushroomy smell or flavour, which my finds had.

(By the way: thanks for the help in IDing!)


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Invisibleshroomiere


Registered: 10/13/20
Posts: 14
Re: ID Request: Confirmed-Active, Mystery Paneolus (NW Europe) [Re: mycot]
    #26983699 - 10/13/20 05:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:
I'd like some others to weigh in on the last point.
After all you were out by least a whole genus.




I'm open to criticism, sure: but I wasn't able to find any small, black-spored mushrooms that presented a risk.

Small, black-spored LBMs in my area fall into a few genuses (as evident above) but none of the black-spored varieties appear to present a risk to health.

The greater risk is the LBMs that look-alike but have different spore prints. If I had had a rusty/brown/orange/white spore print you can be sure I'd discard, even though there are brown-printing active LBMs.


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InvisibleNickoloxious
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Registered: 06/18/17
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Re: ID Request: Confirmed-Active, Mystery Paneolus (NW Europe) [Re: shroomiere]
    #26983761 - 10/13/20 05:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Moria841 said:
You experienced a placebo effect



Quote:

mycot said:
But one really should not be eating shrooms which are very unidentified. This is a really BIG NONO and should NEVER be encouraged,  :thumbdown:  :shocked:  :nono:



:whathesaid:

Those are certainly not active.
Try and be a little humble, admit that you've made a mistake and move on. No one is trying to criticize you or really cares who is right. We just don't want misinformation being spread, or people going around eating mushrooms that they haven't 100% identified.


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Edited by Nickoloxious (10/13/20 06:40 PM)


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