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OfflineThanos407
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Registered: 08/05/20
Posts: 60
Last seen: 11 months, 6 days
Another Martha Question... * 1
    #26979134 - 10/10/20 09:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Greetings all!

There is so much info and so many options to chose from that I'm confusing myself and have become the mushroom version of a hypochondriac... everything seems wrong and/or leading toward some version of a contamination catastrophe.

I haven't found any recent threads on Martha builds with my particular questions and I'm wondering if a trained eye out there can help with my Martha build. This is my second version of a Martha after my first grow began smelling very sweet and ultimately putrid. I got one single decent fruit prior to that.... the rest have been sparse and a fraction of the size. I moved cakes to isolated chambers.

Now I'm trying my hand with bulk substrate. I read Cloneufc's "Easiest almost maintenance free martha setup!" and have been modeling this build from his writeup. But I have questions now, because I'm getting more condensation building up than I am comfortable with.

Thanks in advance!!

Questions:
1) Cloneufc recommends that you take the cake out of the container by flipping on foil, and placing straight on rack. I don't have the balls to even try that with my first bins... wont the substrate crumble if prior to the first flush? Is this something that can be safely done? If so, it would ease my mind from worrying about water collecting in bins.

2) What is the advantage of placing the cool mist directly inside the chamber vs. via routing a hose? (I'm using VICKS FILTER-FREE COOL MIST HUMIDIFIER)

3) Why would you need a cool mist and ultrasonic humidifier... youtube and google have not helped me with that question.

4) Most importantly, how can I manage to keep my humidity above 90% while keeping the flaps open without also over-saturating the tubs?

5) I just placed bins in Martha several hours ago, is it too late to cover them back up and let them continue to consolidate while I do some fine tuning with your help?

Pictures below:

My one single fruit (trying to clone now):


Current build:


Oversaturation??:




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InvisibleInspir3
Aspir3 to Inspir3


Registered: 07/06/17
Posts: 234
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Thanos407]
    #26979175 - 10/10/20 09:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

1) Cloneufc recommends that you take the cake out of the container by flipping on foil, and placing straight on rack. I don't have the balls to even try that with my first bins... wont the substrate crumble if prior to the first flush? Is this something that can be safely done? If so, it would ease my mind from worrying about water collecting in bins.

Cakes are meh, crumble then to bulk.

2) What is the advantage of placing the cool mist directly inside the chamber vs. via routing a hose? (I'm using VICKS FILTER-FREE COOL MIST HUMIDIFIER)

Finer mist pattern, Rh will maintain better.

3) Why would you need a cool mist and ultrasonic humidifier... youtube and google have not helped me with that question.

Coolmist for RH, Ultrasonic for misting

4) Most importantly, how can I manage to keep my humidity above 90% while keeping the flaps open without also over-saturating the tubs?

it's all about evaporation, there are some cool pid switches out there that can be set up to bring a GH to RH and then turn an exhaust fan on. rinse and repeat.

5) I just placed bins in Martha several hours ago, is it too late to cover them back up and let them continue to consolidate while I do some fine tuning with your help

perfectly fine to put them to fruiting conditions now.


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OfflineThanos407
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Registered: 08/05/20
Posts: 60
Last seen: 11 months, 6 days
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Inspir3]
    #26979218 - 10/10/20 10:36 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for your reply Inspir3!

1) I've moved on from cakes... I have 4 of these bulk bins that I'm trying to optimize for fruiting now.

Do you think the bins in the pics are safe to flip out of bins and place on racks per Cloneufc's Martha build ( https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/11930662 )?

2) Thanks for explaining that, maybe it's worth it to place my cool-mister inside martha.

3) "Coolmist for RH, Ultrasonic for misting"

This is what I don't seem to be able to grasp. The Vicks cool mister I have does mist.... it's also identified as ultrasonic (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Vicks-Filter-Free-Cool-Mist-Humidifier-V4600-White/29765911). I don't understand the logic of using 2 separate machines... which means that there is something that I am not understanding.

4) I have a plug-n-play humidity controller (https://www.ink-bird.com/products-humidity-controller-ihc200.html)

Should I connect a fan and set it to turn on at a certain RH?

5) My thoughts are that if I fruit the bins now, I might over-saturate them and cause mold contamination. That's why I'm wondering if I could take them out and cover until I figure this all out.

I appreciate your advice!


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InvisibleDoctor Mario
πŸ„πŸ„πŸ„πŸ„πŸ„
Male Unread Journal


Registered: 08/07/20
Posts: 1,894
Loc: πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Inspir3] * 1
    #26979221 - 10/10/20 10:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

This looks pretty bad ass. I'm not talking down, I'm legitimately curious but why would you go through all of this trouble as opposed to just doing some traditional style mono tubs? What are the benefits to this and do they outweigh the cons?


--------------------



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OfflineThanos407
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Registered: 08/05/20
Posts: 60
Last seen: 11 months, 6 days
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Doctor Mario]
    #26979243 - 10/10/20 11:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Doctor Mario said:
This looks pretty bad ass. I'm not talking down, I'm legitimately curious but why would you go through all of this trouble as opposed to just doing some traditional style mono tubs? What are the benefits to this and do they outweigh the cons?





Simply because I love to control and automate environments. Ideally, the only thing I want to do with this system is fill the reservoir and collect the fruit.

Growing things is not intuitive for me, I don't know what optimal saturation looks like... but I do know what 90% looks like on a meter. I want to take the guess work out of the equation and build a system that works without fail. A man can dream.


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InvisibleDoctor Mario
πŸ„πŸ„πŸ„πŸ„πŸ„
Male Unread Journal


Registered: 08/07/20
Posts: 1,894
Loc: πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Thanos407]
    #26979257 - 10/10/20 11:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

That's fair. I hope it all works out. I'm rootin for ya.


--------------------



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OfflineMessiah of Savants
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Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 431
Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Thanos407] * 1
    #26979259 - 10/10/20 11:18 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

For Cubensis you don't need the ultrasonic humidifier. I use a large fish aquarium air pump to add fresh air continuously and keep the flaps shut. I get nice mushroom canopies with no problems. The more bulk substrate you have, the easier it is to have stable high RH. You just have to dial in your on/off cycle. Standing water droplets everywhere is usually a bit much "on" cycle IME. As long as your 90%+ on a meter you have, you'll be fine. I don't even use a meter anymore. Cubensis can be forgiving in many ways.


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OfflineThanos407
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Registered: 08/05/20
Posts: 60
Last seen: 11 months, 6 days
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Doctor Mario]
    #26979360 - 10/11/20 12:58 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Doctor Mario said:
That's fair. I hope it all works out. I'm rootin for ya.




I appreciate it Doc. Thank you!


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OfflineThanos407
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Registered: 08/05/20
Posts: 60
Last seen: 11 months, 6 days
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Messiah of Savants]
    #26979366 - 10/11/20 01:03 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Messiah of Savants said:
For Cubensis you don't need the ultrasonic humidifier. I use a large fish aquarium air pump to add fresh air continuously and keep the flaps shut. I get nice mushroom canopies with no problems. The more bulk substrate you have, the easier it is to have stable high RH. You just have to dial in your on/off cycle. Standing water droplets everywhere is usually a bit much "on" cycle IME. As long as your 90%+ on a meter you have, you'll be fine. I don't even use a meter anymore. Cubensis can be forgiving in many ways.




I'm unfamiliar with the aquarium air pump strategy. I also figured that greatest factor with growing nice canopies would be genetics.

My greatest takeaway from your advice is that the more substrate I have the easier it will be to maintain RH. Thank you!

I can easily get 90% + on the meter.. but the consequence now is a saturated tent. That is what I'm grappling with now.


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OfflineThanos407
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Registered: 08/05/20
Posts: 60
Last seen: 11 months, 6 days
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Thanos407]
    #26979375 - 10/11/20 01:21 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Man down... first trich-looking contam.

When spawning to bulk, I ran out of my pasteurized CVG and thought it was a good idea to pop open a bag of Miracle Grow Peat Moss and use that to case the top. It was 2 am, at the time, the thought hadn't occurred that I should at least let it soak in boiling water for a few minutes throwing it on top.

Anything salvageable here?:



Is it possible to still reuse the tub if not salvageable? Or should I throw the whole thing (closed) in the outdoor garbage can. Maybe dump it in the yard and cross fingers for a mushroom surprise in the future?


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OfflineMessiah of Savants
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Registered: 07/02/08
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Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Thanos407]
    #26979382 - 10/11/20 01:38 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I also figured that greatest factor with growing nice canopies would be genetics.




Genetics of course, but you won't get a great pinset if you don't have good air exchange and/or enough humidity.


Edited by Messiah of Savants (10/11/20 01:40 AM)


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OfflineThanos407
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Registered: 08/05/20
Posts: 60
Last seen: 11 months, 6 days
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Messiah of Savants]
    #26979392 - 10/11/20 02:06 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Messiah of Savants said:
Quote:

I also figured that greatest factor with growing nice canopies would be genetics.




Genetics of course, but you won't get a great pinset if you don't have good air exchange and/or enough humidity.





Understood!


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InvisibleInspir3
Aspir3 to Inspir3


Registered: 07/06/17
Posts: 234
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Thanos407]
    #26979606 - 10/11/20 08:16 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

1. Good

2. lot of GH users do that.

3. I was just explaining what the 2 separate machines do. Like the others have said once you fill up the martha RH will become easy to maintain. You should be able to get away without having both, but you might have to keep an eye out.

4. Like messiah said. its all about air exchange E.G evaporation and rehydrating. this will trigger thick heavy pin sets. A exhaust fan that turns on for 2 min every time it reaches 90ish RH would be good. you would need to experiment and dial this in.

5. Make a video of the setup. The tub is close enough i think to just let it go. Over saturation is solved with better air exchange.

Keep in mind these are my opinions and not to be taken as fact. If a TC chimes in, i would listen to them.


--------------------


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InvisibleInspir3
Aspir3 to Inspir3


Registered: 07/06/17
Posts: 234
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Thanos407]
    #26979614 - 10/11/20 08:19 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

go place it in a flower bed you could get lucky. i have had to ditch some spawn once due to a long vacation, so i tossed it in a mulch pile with some fruit trees and it fruited very nicely. Wash and bleach the tub and it is reusable.


--------------------


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OfflineThanos407
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Registered: 08/05/20
Posts: 60
Last seen: 11 months, 6 days
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Inspir3]
    #26980831 - 10/12/20 02:36 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Inspir3 said:
1. Good

2. lot of GH users do that.

3. I was just explaining what the 2 separate machines do. Like the others have said once you fill up the martha RH will become easy to maintain. You should be able to get away without having both, but you might have to keep an eye out.

4. Like messiah said. its all about air exchange E.G evaporation and rehydrating. this will trigger thick heavy pin sets. A exhaust fan that turns on for 2 min every time it reaches 90ish RH would be good. you would need to experiment and dial this in.

5. Make a video of the setup. The tub is close enough i think to just let it go. Over saturation is solved with better air exchange.

Keep in mind these are my opinions and not to be taken as fact. If a TC chimes in, i would listen to them.




Thank you. Will keep your advice in mind and update when modifications are complete. The humidistat I have only dehumidifies at a certain RH% and disengages when back in range. So in order to trigger ventilation, I need to go above 90%. I thought I had it dialed in today, but I just took a look and found a puddle forming in bottom tray.

I have a suspicion that the the Inkbird dig gauge is not accurate. Fine mist is covering all bins but I believe it’s at or close to its saturation limit before it starts pooling. To help prevent over saturation I set up a clip on fan to run for 5 mins every 2 hours and changed the humidistat to a high of 90% and low of 80%. In also considering setting a perlite tray in the bottom to absorb runoff and help regulate RH. The con to that is I’m concerned about contams whith this strategy.


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OfflineAablmd82
Mushroom mushroom man
Registered: 04/26/20
Posts: 71
Last seen: 11 days, 1 hour
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Thanos407]
    #26980932 - 10/12/20 06:29 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Search the forum for posts from Trusted Cultivators regarding this topic OP. It’s just that for Martha vs. mono tub, the Martha is actually LESS automated. This was sad news for me too as I really wanted to build a Martha automated with all sorts of sensors and switches.

Edit: check out this thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25053549/fpart/1/vc/1


--------------------
Clone -> agar -> UnBODified monotub (first attempt, left unattended a week before harvesting)


Thanks BOD πŸ™


Edited by Aablmd82 (10/12/20 06:33 AM)


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OfflineThanos407
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Registered: 08/05/20
Posts: 60
Last seen: 11 months, 6 days
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Aablmd82]
    #26981447 - 10/12/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Aablmd82 said:
Search the forum for posts from Trusted Cultivators regarding this topic OP. It’s just that for Martha vs. mono tub, the Martha is actually LESS automated. This was sad news for me too as I really wanted to build a Martha automated with all sorts of sensors and switches.

Edit: check out this thread https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25053549/fpart/1/vc/1




Aablmd82. Thank you for your share!

I wish I read that link sooner. It's uncanny how similar some of my jars looked to that OP's jars.... I did separate those jars into a separate monotub.... BUT... I also just threw that tub into the same GH last night.

Would removing the tub now reduce chance of contamination?

I wonder if it's too late to convert this grow into individual monotub fruiting chambers and still keep in GH.

I did not put holes in the fruiting chamber tubs because I wanted to float them to the top using Bod's Easy AF harvesting TEK. However, most of the monotub strategies I've seen require a lot of holes.


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OfflineAablmd82
Mushroom mushroom man
Registered: 04/26/20
Posts: 71
Last seen: 11 days, 1 hour
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Thanos407]
    #26981550 - 10/12/20 01:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I imagine just about every misstep is documented somewhere in these forums, the hard part is knowing where to look.

Unless you see obvious unwanted growth in your jars, it should be safe to spawn them. If there is something bad in your spawn you can either get lucky and produce a flush or two before the contamination grows too great, or catch the contamination before it drops spores. Mycelium has it's own defense system so certain amounts of contaminants are acceptable. With that being said, you want to avoid spawning contaminated spawn when you can.

The cool thing about tubs is that they can go anywhere, in you GH or not. You should convert those tubs into unmodded mini-monos. Idk if a bag would fit over them but it's seriously easy to grow in shoeboxes. If you can't fit a bag, try looking into dubtubs for them. I'd put those cakes into a similar container and put balls of wet paper towel in them to provide humidity, and give them a mist once or twice a day.


--------------------
Clone -> agar -> UnBODified monotub (first attempt, left unattended a week before harvesting)


Thanks BOD πŸ™


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OfflineThanos407
Stranger
Registered: 08/05/20
Posts: 60
Last seen: 11 months, 6 days
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Aablmd82]
    #26983342 - 10/13/20 01:00 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I removed the humidifier and bagged all bins.




Another bin looks like it's growing mold.





I'm on the verge of throwing everything out - - tubs, cakes, Martha. And start from scratch using Bod's monotub tek and a known good LC I have.

I started without any obvious contaminations, now everything is going to shit... Agar, Cultures, spawn... all contaminated at a high percentage.

I did a search and read a thread that makes me think the flowhood I built is behind a lot of the contaminations I'm having now. I Installed a barrier to protect the fins. Now that I think of it, I did not even clean or sterilize the guard prior to powering up. I haven't had a clean result sense using it... but I've also been less cautious since using it because I thought it would make contaminations less likely. I think the opposite has been true


Original:



Guard removed:



Any advice... I'm willing and ready to listen.

Thanks


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OfflineThanos407
Stranger
Registered: 08/05/20
Posts: 60
Last seen: 11 months, 6 days
Re: Another Martha Question... [Re: Thanos407]
    #26983479 - 10/13/20 02:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe this is a dumb question, but I'd rather have another opinion.

Is this contamination or no?

There is a slight green discoloration but I don't understand how mycelium can morph into mold this way. Would someone be kind enough to help me understand what is going on here?





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