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Mach z 800
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: Enlil]
#26981082 - 10/12/20 08:41 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Probably not, but it can't happen with trump in office.
tell me what will biden do ? You think he will magically end whats going on 🤣😂. Your dreaming whats going on has nothing to do with trump. Its all these weak as democrat citys that let all hell break lose an refuse to let trump stop this mess going on. You very disconnected on what the real issues are.
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Mach z 800
Stranger


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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: christopera]
#26981090 - 10/12/20 08:46 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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christopera said: Sells us out to China?
Tell us more.
well its very simple biden wants to sell this country out why do think he wont answer his question if he will pack the Supreme courts? Its yes or no question very simple to answer. Yet he states if he says his answer its all they will talk about it dont sound to good to me.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,830
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: Mach z 800]
#26981100 - 10/12/20 08:51 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mach z 800 said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Probably not, but it can't happen with trump in office.
tell me what will biden do ? You think he will magically end whats going on 🤣😂. Your dreaming whats going on has nothing to do with trump. Its all these weak as democrat citys that let all hell break lose an refuse to let trump stop this mess going on. You very disconnected on what the real issues are.
Nah. He'll be a terrible President, too. Not as bad a Trump, but terrible.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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christopera
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: Mach z 800] 2
#26981102 - 10/12/20 08:52 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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So by packing the supreme court he is selling us to China? Better not look at Trumps court then.
That’s some retarded logic if I’ve ever seen it.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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qman
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: Mach z 800]
#26981188 - 10/12/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mach z 800 said:
Quote:
christopera said: Sells us out to China?
Tell us more.
well its very simple biden wants to sell this country out why do think he wont answer his question if he will pack the Supreme courts? Its yes or no question very simple to answer. Yet he states if he says his answer its all they will talk about it dont sound to good to me.
Trump and Biden will be identical when it comes to economic policy with China. There was no 'trade war' with China under Trump, that's pure bullshit.
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,540
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: Mach z 800] 1
#26981309 - 10/12/20 11:00 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mach z 800 said:
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Enlil said: Getting trump out of office is the only way to make America great again
🤣😂 good i dont want to hear you bitch when biden sells us out to china china an hikes our taxes up. Of course you probably can care less because orange man badd lol an thats what your focused on you can care less about the facts because democrats dont go by facts just misinformation.
What a dumb fuck statement. I know many independents and even some Republicans who plan to vote Biden. Trump is dumber than fuck and bad for business (just look at his).
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christopera
Stranger


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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: qman] 1
#26981454 - 10/12/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Mach z 800 said:
Quote:
christopera said: Sells us out to China?
Tell us more.
well its very simple biden wants to sell this country out why do think he wont answer his question if he will pack the Supreme courts? Its yes or no question very simple to answer. Yet he states if he says his answer its all they will talk about it dont sound to good to me.
Trump and Biden will be identical when it comes to economic policy with China. There was no 'trade war' with China under Trump, that's pure bullshit.
There were however trade tariffs that mostly harmed American businesses as a result of Trumps pure ignorance. My business suffered as a result.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Mach z 800
Stranger


Registered: 12/04/15
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: Mycolorado] 1
#26981466 - 10/12/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mycolorado said:
Quote:
Mach z 800 said:
Quote:
Enlil said: Getting trump out of office is the only way to make America great again
🤣😂 good i dont want to hear you bitch when biden sells us out to china china an hikes our taxes up. Of course you probably can care less because orange man badd lol an thats what your focused on you can care less about the facts because democrats dont go by facts just misinformation.
What a dumb fuck statement. I know many independents and even some Republicans who plan to vote Biden. Trump is dumber than fuck and bad for business (just look at his). 
jeez its allways the same response lol trump is dumb or he bad for the economy is all i hear or hes racist lol. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/595408/
Watch "@joeBiden and the #Racist #CrimeBILL" on YouTube
Just remember if you dont vote biden your not black enough Watch "JOE BIDEN IS FLAT OUT RACIST" on YouTube
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koods
Ribbit



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Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: Mach z 800]
#26981469 - 10/12/20 12:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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jeez its allways the same response lol trump is dumb or he bad for the economy
Because it’s a fact.
Worst job creation record for any president ever.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (10/12/20 12:40 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: Mach z 800]
#26981474 - 10/12/20 12:42 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Everyone gets it. No need to post the videos again. They're already ubiquitous. If you have an objective outsiders viewpoint it's literally impossible to care about people digging for racism on Biden in the context of comparison with Trump. It's apples and oranges. No one gives a fuck about Biden repeating the word nigger or his crime bill. I absolutely don't support Biden but every Biden supporter I do know already knows about the crime bill. Whether they think he's learned from the past or is still bad doesn't even matter. To most people he's anything but Trump. They're clearly both pieces of shit, but to try to paint Biden as more racial then Trump makes you look like a fool
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: christopera]
#26981528 - 10/12/20 01:18 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Mach z 800 said:
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christopera said: Sells us out to China?
Tell us more.
well its very simple biden wants to sell this country out why do think he wont answer his question if he will pack the Supreme courts? Its yes or no question very simple to answer. Yet he states if he says his answer its all they will talk about it dont sound to good to me.
Trump and Biden will be identical when it comes to economic policy with China. There was no 'trade war' with China under Trump, that's pure bullshit.
There were however trade tariffs that mostly harmed American businesses as a result of Trumps pure ignorance. My business suffered as a result.
The tariffs were collected, by also subsidized by the China government in most industries. In other words, the prices for most US customers were unaffected. The items in US retail stores are still the same regardless of the tariffs. The Trump tariffs never made any sense at all, but that does NOT mean tariffs wouldn't be effective moving forward.
How did it affect your business?
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: qman]
#26981543 - 10/12/20 01:28 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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The tariffs increased my cost for tooling and I am unable to compete world wide as a result. I still buy tooling from China, it’s the only place that supplies it, it’s just 30% more expensive now. Great work. I took a 25% sales hit as a result. Trump being his best retard...
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: christopera] 1
#26981596 - 10/12/20 01:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said: The tariffs increased my cost for tooling and I am unable to compete world wide as a result. I still buy tooling from China, it’s the only place that supplies it, it’s just 30% more expensive now. Great work. I took a 25% sales hit as a result. Trump being his best retard...
The truth of the matter is that the real problem is China being the only supplier and I think you would agree with that assessment. All of those items were once produced in the US and created a lot of economic prosperity for small businesses and workers. Outsourcing to China is a race to the bottom. I agree, 25% tariffs are nothing but a joke.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: BANANA.MAN]
#26981625 - 10/12/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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BANANA.MAN said: Trump has once again disavowed white supremacists and neo nazis and has told militia groups to stand back and let the police handle the rioting and not contribute to violence.
Biden on the other hand refuses to disavow (or it seems even acknowledge) antifa which has committed innumerable crimes up to and including murder.
The way that you're framing this conversation is bullshit, BANANA.MAN.
I will be the first to admit that Antifa activists have been violent on many different occasions, and I think that violence is a problem. My first problem is just that I'm a pacifist, and I hate all violence. However, my secondary problem with Antifa violence is that it gives republicans more fuel to suppress anarchist and socialist politics with their cries of domestic terrorism. A third problem is that it allows white supremacists to depict themselves as victims being denied the right to freely assemble. I believe that Antifa violence is a serious problem. It's not just an imagined enemy created by the Trump administration and Fox News. However, the idea that Antifa violence is somehow comparable to white supremacist violence is completely absurd, and the way that you're framing this debate as two immoral, but equal violent groups is extremely dishonest (or maybe just ignorant).
First of all, Antifa is not an organization. There are no leadership positions, there is no unifying mission statement. Antifa consists of activists who typically show up as a direct reaction to far right-wing gatherings. White supremacists and neo-nazis, on the other hand, typically do form organizations with leadership roles, mission statements, and calls to action (the Proud Boys are one of many examples). Antifa is not really an organization, but the Proud Boys,the Oath Keepers, and other white supremacist groups are.
Second of all, there is a difference in scale between Antifa's violence and white supremacist violence. Check out this study by START, a research group that studies acts of terror all across the globe. The study uncovers the ideological motivations for terrorist attacks from 1970-2016. In general, religiously-motivated attacks are far more common than politically-motivated ones, but it was found that, of the 371 politically-motivated murders during this time, right-wing extremists (which includes white supremacists and neo-nazis) committed 74% of them while left-wing extremists (like Antifa) committed less than 2%. Even though left-wing violence exists, right-wing violence is significantly more common than left-wing violence.
Third of all, there is a power imbalance between Antifa activists and white supremacists. White, Christian supremacy has been supported by US government policy for most of American history (if not all of American history):
- Anarchism (and even more lightweight left-wing philosophies like socialism) has, historically, not been supported by US government policy.
- There are no famous statues or paintings of anarchist activists in America's government buildings or in town squares, but there are statues of white supremacists, slave owners, and the like.
- Antifa has no media outlet that receives White House support, but the alt-right does (consider Steve Bannon and his "Breitbart" outlet).
- Antifa does not have anyone representing their cause as an Attorney General, but the alt-right does (Jeff Sessions, who allegedly called the NAACP "unAmerican").
The point here is that, even if Antifa's goals were equally toxic to the goals of white supremacists (and I think it's unclear whether or not their goals really are that toxic, considering Antifa often collaborates with justice movements like Black Lives Matter), Antifa doesn't have nearly as much political power to turn those goals into a reality as white supremacists do.
I hope these three points are enough to convince some readers that the comparison between Antifa and far right-wing political groups is complete bullshit. There is a difference in organization, there is a difference in scale, and there is a difference in the ability for each side to make their goals a reality.
I'll leave y'all with one last point, which is that Antifa exists as a response to fascism and other far right-wing political movements. If Donald Trump and all of his followers really wanted to get rid of Antifa, the best thing to do is to stop being fascists. Stop believing fascist rhetoric, stop following fascist news sources, stop making fascist gatherings in public. Without fascism, there's no need for Antifa.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: qman]
#26981629 - 10/12/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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You are totally ignorant, clearly. 25% decrease of sales isn’t equal to a 25% tariff.
You can argue that tooling should be made domestically all you want, it isn’t, and it hasn’t been made here in 40 years. The tariffs simply punished Americans. Nobody else. Not the Chinese or otherwise. Now my business is filled by people who aren’t subject to Trumps retardation. MAGA!
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
Edited by christopera (10/12/20 02:16 PM)
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson

Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 1 hour, 45 seconds
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: Nonagon Infinity] 1
#26981679 - 10/12/20 02:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: Trump has once again disavowed white supremacists and neo nazis and has told militia groups to stand back and let the police handle the rioting and not contribute to violence.
Biden on the other hand refuses to disavow (or it seems even acknowledge) antifa which has committed innumerable crimes up to and including murder.
The way that you're framing this conversation is bullshit, BANANA.MAN.
I will be the first to admit that Antifa activists have been violent on many different occasions, and I think that violence is a problem. My first problem is just that I'm a pacifist, and I hate all violence. However, my secondary problem with Antifa violence is that it gives republicans more fuel to suppress anarchist and socialist politics with their cries of domestic terrorism. A third problem is that it allows white supremacists to depict themselves as victims being denied the right to freely assemble. I believe that Antifa violence is a serious problem. It's not just an imagined enemy created by the Trump administration and Fox News. However, the idea that Antifa violence is somehow comparable to white supremacist violence is completely absurd, and the way that you're framing this debate as two immoral, but equal violent groups is extremely dishonest (or maybe just ignorant).
First of all, Antifa is not an organization. There are no leadership positions, there is no unifying mission statement. Antifa consists of activists who typically show up as a direct reaction to far right-wing gatherings. White supremacists and neo-nazis, on the other hand, typically do form organizations with leadership roles, mission statements, and calls to action (the Proud Boys are one of many examples). Antifa is not really an organization, but the Proud Boys,the Oath Keepers, and other white supremacist groups are.
Second of all, there is a difference in scale between Antifa's violence and white supremacist violence. Check out this study by START, a research group that studies acts of terror all across the globe. The study uncovers the ideological motivations for terrorist attacks from 1970-2016. In general, religiously-motivated attacks are far more common than politically-motivated ones, but it was found that, of the 371 politically-motivated murders during this time, right-wing extremists (which includes white supremacists and neo-nazis) committed 74% of them while left-wing extremists (like Antifa) committed less than 2%. Even though left-wing violence exists, right-wing violence is significantly more common than left-wing violence.
Third of all, there is a power imbalance between Antifa activists and white supremacists. White, Christian supremacy has been supported by US government policy for most of American history (if not all of American history):
- Anarchism (and even more lightweight left-wing philosophies like socialism) has, historically, not been supported by US government policy.
- There are no famous statues or paintings of anarchist activists in America's government buildings or in town squares, but there are statues of white supremacists, slave owners, and the like.
- Antifa has no media outlet that receives White House support, but the alt-right does (consider Steve Bannon and his "Breitbart" outlet).
- Antifa does not have anyone representing their cause as an Attorney General, but the alt-right does (Jeff Sessions, who allegedly called the NAACP "unAmerican").
The point here is that, even if Antifa's goals were equally toxic to the goals of white supremacists (and I think it's unclear whether or not their goals really are that toxic, considering Antifa often collaborates with justice movements like Black Lives Matter), Antifa doesn't have nearly as much political power to turn those goals into a reality as white supremacists do.
I hope these three points are enough to convince some readers that the comparison between Antifa and far right-wing political groups is complete bullshit. There is a difference in organization, there is a difference in scale, and there is a difference in the ability for each side to make their goals a reality.
I'll leave y'all with one last point, which is that Antifa exists as a response to fascism and other far right-wing political movements. If Donald Trump and all of his followers really wanted to get rid of Antifa, the best thing to do is to stop being fascists. Stop believing fascist rhetoric, stop following fascist news sources, stop making fascist gatherings in public. Without fascism, there's no need for Antifa.
the way you are framing this is bullshit.
white supremecists have very little political power in the USA or anywhere in the world these days. antifa on the other hand gets swept under the rug by the media and mainstream politicians. there are legit organizations of people who target what they deem to be "facists"
that study includes only things that are considered attacks. but a whole night of giant groups of left wingers coming together fighting/ attacking people/ destroying property dont get counted.
left winged violence has been way more prevalent than white supremecist violence.
there are people in the past who have done bad things. the starues aren't nessecarily there to commemorate the bad things they did. they are there to commemorate the good things that they had done. I mean the celebrate ghengis khan in Mongolia. he was very influential. this view that there werent any good people until like the 1960s is ridiculous. in 100 years maybe they will decide we were all bad people and discount anything good that was done by anyone alive today.
every great person in history has been a flawed hero. everyone. celebrating a flawed hero doesn't mean celebrating flaws.
trump disavowed Bannon. the alt right gets no white house support.
on the other hand the leftwimged media and political establishment just brushes left winged violence under the rug.
see the fact that you are saying "trump and his supporters need to stop being fascist" shows you are just drowning in confirmation bias. what fascist policies has donald trump pursued? they aren't fighting fascists they are larping. give me a break.
the militia groups that clash with rioters are there as a response to the rioters and looters. I can say that too.
look at it this way, I agree white suprmecy is bad. so does trump. Id never defend white supremecists or downplay their awfulness.
you and Biden on the other hand are 1. pretending they aren't a big deal and arent a real organization anyway so who cares 2. taking the fact they they are truly fighting "fascism" at face value 3. blaming trump for causing the response.
BLM is also another group I dont support so idgaf if they work with BLM. BLM is super radical and not ery accepting of people who don't share a very specific view and their platform is total garbage.
not a fan of the proud boys but they arent a white supremecist group and to use yo own logic if left wingers weren't in the street rioting they wouldnt be there.
you can't just go around labeling everything you dont like white supremecist with no evidence. all it does is further prove that you're just rooting for your team.
imagine I had just defended white supremecists as being better than antifa like the opposite of whatou just did. I'd rightfully never hear the end of it. fuck white supremacist loser, crazy people who attack minorities. fuck violent, destructive, theiving Marxists who use intimidation to get what they want and occupy city streets infringing upon the rights of the residents.
sorry thats out of order and there are probs some spelling mistakes but I dont have time to edit rn.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: christopera] 1
#26981711 - 10/12/20 02:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said: You are totally ignorant, clearly. 25% decrease of sales isn’t equal to a 25% tariff.
You can argue that tooling should be made domestically all you want, it isn’t, and it hasn’t been made here in 40 years. The tariffs simply punished Americans. Nobody else. Not the Chinese or otherwise. Now my business is filled by people who aren’t subject to Trumps retardation. MAGA!
I get my tooling made in the states. In Indiana mostly. Parts for huge tens to hundreds of thousand dollar machines to handle different materials and items going through them. The machines themselves are also domestic. I have one Chinese pre-treatment machine for plastic resins and it's a huge pile of shit
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 days
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: BANANA.MAN]
#26981895 - 10/12/20 04:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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BANANA.MAN said: white supremecists have very little political power in the USA or anywhere in the world these days.
That's not true at all. White supremacy has been a huge part of American politics since the foundation of the country. Slavery -> Segregation -> Jim Crow laws -> Redlining and mass incarceration -> Police Brutality. Our government has consistently favored white Christians for about as long as America has been a country, and it's a problem with an ever-changing face.
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: antifa on the other hand gets swept under the rug by the media and mainstream politicians.
False. Check out this article from the Atlantic. The Atlantic is a mainstream media source, and the article is called "The Rise of the Violent Left." The author is highly critical of the violence of Antifa activists. Your narrative that everyone is ignoring Antifa is false. Lots of politicians and media sources are aware of Antifa and are willing to talk about them (even critically).
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: there are legit organizations of people who target what they deem to be "facists"
And I'm saying that Antifa isn't one of them. Antifa isn't an organization, which is a point I already explained previously. If you want to change topics and talk about an extremist leftist group, then that's fine, but if so, then we're not talking about Antifa anymore.
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BANANA.MAN said: that study includes only things that are considered attacks. but a whole night of giant groups of left wingers coming together fighting/ attacking people/ destroying property dont get counted.
The study I linked studied the demographics for politically-motivated murders. The study shows, beyond a reasonable doubt, that right-wing extremist groups are way more likely to commit a politically-motivated murder than left-wing extremist groups. You're changing the subject from politically-motivated murder to fighting, nonlethal attacks, and destroying property.
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: left winged violence has been way more prevalent than white supremecist violence.
Citation Needed
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: there are people in the past who have done bad things. the starues aren't nessecarily there to commemorate the bad things they did. they are there to commemorate the good things that they had done. I mean the celebrate ghengis khan in Mongolia. he was very influential. this view that there werent any good people until like the 1960s is ridiculous. in 100 years maybe they will decide we were all bad people and discount anything good that was done by anyone alive today.
I never said that there "weren't any good people until like the 1960's". You're imagining that this is a narrative that anyone actually holds. I never said that everyone who was ever a part of this country was a bad person. All I said is that there are statues of right-wing white supremacists, but that there aren't statues of leftist, anarchist activists.
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: every great person in history has been a flawed hero. everyone. celebrating a flawed hero doesn't mean celebrating flaws.
This isn't about being a good or bad person, though. Obviously, everyone does some good and some bad. Obviously. We are discussing whether or not it's fair to compare Antifa to white supremacist groups.
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: trump disavowed Bannon. the alt right gets no white house support.
It doesn't matter if he disavowed Bannon later on. He was endorsed before and during the beginning of the Trump administration, which legitimized his alt-right narrative media source. A lot of people still go to Breitbart as a media source, and that's largely because of Trump's original endorsement. The damage has already been done.
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: on the other hand the leftwimged media and political establishment just brushes left winged violence under the rug.
Could you give us all a specific example of a left-leaning media source or a left-wing politician brushing left-wing violence under the rug?
Quote:
BANANA.MAN said: see the fact that you are saying "trump and his supporters need to stop being fascist" shows you are just drowning in confirmation bias. what fascist policies has donald trump pursued? they aren't fighting fascists they are larping. give me a break.
I don't think you understand what fascism is...
There is no such thing as a fascist policy. Fascism isn't a political party or a form of government. Fascism is a philosophy that asserts there is a hierarchy that must be preserved. Historically, this hierarchy is typically spelled out in racial terms. For example, the Nazis (the token example of fascists) believed that Aryans were the supreme human beings (that they were at the top of the hierarchy), and that the Aryans should have power over all other races.
When it comes to government, fascists don't give a shit about how the ruling group achieves their power over everyone else. Musselini's fascist regime seized power in Italy in the early 20's via a violent coup, but that doesn't mean that fascists have to use violence to achieve power. Hitler was elected via the German democratic system. Fascists don't care how the hierarchy comes into place, so long as it does. If they need to use violence, they will, but if they can better achieve power by playing by the rules of a broken system (as they are in the USA right now), they will do that as well. So, the definition of a "fascist policy" is just whatever policy helps fascists seize more power. This could mean a wildly different set of policies depending on the full context of the situation.
You see, fascism doesn't show itself as public policy (at least not at the beginning). Fascism shows itself as rhetoric. When Trump refers to Mexican immigrants and says "they're not sending their best. They're bringing drugs. They're rapists," he's using fascist rhetoric. When Trump says there were "good people on both sides" of the unite-the-right rally in Charlottesville, where people were marching through the streets with torches chanting "JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US," he's using fascist rhetoric. When Trump said that we ought to start keeping a database of Muslims in the US, he's using fascist rhetoric. Trump is a fascist, and the only way my opinion about that is going to change is if he stops using fascist rhetoric and stops endorsing (or "refusing to condemn") fascists like the Proud Boys or the Oath Keepers. White supremacy is the contemporary form of American fascism, and we need to be able to call it what it is.
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BANANA.MAN said: the militia groups that clash with rioters are there as a response to the rioters and looters. I can say that too.
That's not always the case, though. Look into footage of the most recent Proud Boys rally in Portland, OR. They aren't protecting any buildings or people from rioters. They are attacking press, flashing white supremacist hand signals and sybmolism, and spreading their rhetoric.
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BANANA.MAN said: look at it this way, I agree white suprmecy is bad. so does trump. Id never defend white supremecists or downplay their awfulness.
Trump is a white supremacist, though...
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BANANA.MAN said: you and Biden on the other hand are 1. pretending they aren't a big deal and arent a real organization anyway so who cares 2. taking the fact they they are truly fighting "fascism" at face value 3. blaming trump for causing the response.
1. Did you ignore the entire paragraph I devoted in my last comment to explaining how I think that Antifa violence actually is a serious problem? I gave three different reasons that Antifa violence is a problem. Antifa violence is a problem. My claim is that Antifa violence is not comparable to white supremacist violence. They are different by an order of degrees. 2. I think I can disagree here, since you've already demonstrated that you don't actually understand what fascism is. 3. My biggest problem with Trump when it comes to this discussion is the double standard he applies to Antifa. He engages in the same narrative that you do: comparing Antifa violence to the violence of white supremacists, which I'm claiming is complete bullshit.
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BANANA.MAN said: BLM is also another group I dont support so idgaf if they work with BLM. BLM is super radical and not ery accepting of people who don't share a very specific view and their platform is total garbage.
I'm not at all surprised that you don't support BLM. I have two questions: 1. Could you explain how BLM is "super radical?" 2. Could you explain what this "very specific view" is? What is the vision of BLM, according to you?
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BANANA.MAN said: not a fan of the proud boys but they arent a white supremecist group and to use yo own logic if left wingers weren't in the street rioting they wouldnt be there.
The Proud Boys are 100% a white supremacist group. They flash "white power" symbols at one another at all of their rallies and their leadership consistently talks about how the US form of government (read as: predominantly white christians holding all the power) is something to be proud of (implying it's supreme over other nations or forms of government). There is footage of Proud Boys physically attacking unarmed journalists at their own rallies.
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BANANA.MAN said: you can't just go around labeling everything you dont like white supremecist with no evidence. all it does is further prove that you're just rooting for your team.
Antifa isn't "my team," dude. I've already been quite clear that I'm critical of Antifa, especially when it comes to violence. My claim is just that comparing Antifa violence to white supremacist violence isn't a fair comparison at all.
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BANANA.MAN said: imagine I had just defended white supremecists as being better than antifa like the opposite of whatou just did. I'd rightfully never hear the end of it. fuck white supremacist loser, crazy people who attack minorities. fuck violent, destructive, theiving Marxists who use intimidation to get what they want and occupy city streets infringing upon the rights of the residents.
Oh, you're so oppressed
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,270
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: bodhisatta]
#26981906 - 10/12/20 04:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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bodhisatta said:
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christopera said: You are totally ignorant, clearly. 25% decrease of sales isn’t equal to a 25% tariff.
You can argue that tooling should be made domestically all you want, it isn’t, and it hasn’t been made here in 40 years. The tariffs simply punished Americans. Nobody else. Not the Chinese or otherwise. Now my business is filled by people who aren’t subject to Trumps retardation. MAGA!
I get my tooling made in the states. In Indiana mostly. Parts for huge tens to hundreds of thousand dollar machines to handle different materials and items going through them. The machines themselves are also domestic. I have one Chinese pre-treatment machine for plastic resins and it's a huge pile of shit
Good for you. Let me know when they start making my tooling in Indiana.
Bad news. They don’t.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: christopera]
#26981925 - 10/12/20 05:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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You probably have to find the right company to do it for you
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