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Offlinehandsomedead
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26955764 - 09/26/20 08:56 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I am just saying it is ego death because this experience I had was much more incredibly intense than any other trip I have had, and I think it was an ego death. I only ever did GT and the dosing for those seems to scale pretty normal. I tried to be a hero and I took 3g PE completely unaware of how much more potent these were. They were giant blobbed mutants that I got on my first flush and I had cut them into pieces before drying. Definitely noticed that PE are quite unpleasant tasting almost immediately and the texture closely resembles popcorn. The slices are pure white.

I am not trying to brag that I had an ego death experience but I dont know how else to describe what I went through. I have had plenty of trips on GT and I was able to calm myself down and deal with intensity on my own. But these PE... before I was peaking I can distinctly remember completely losing touch with reality. Any sense of who I was, what my likes were, what I do for a living, who my family was, etc began to be stripped from me. And i "went somewhere" I dont know where this place I went was. Nothing was recognizable about this place. There are no physical objects. Almost like a purgatory setting with colors and lines. I dont really feel like I learned anything either. It wasnt a profound experience due to how scared I was. It was just pure horror im sorry. Before I called for help I was pacing around my room taking my clothes off. I was sweating so much it was insane. I can also remember seriously believing that the only way to stop what I was going through was to injure myself. I dont know what I would have done, but I also distinctly remember thinking that stabbing my hands would feel good like scratching a good itch.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: handsomedead]
    #26956017 - 09/26/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

That might not be an ego death. Sounds like you fought it pretty hard. I can't conceive having thoughts about hurting myself or others in the state in which I have found my self on high doses. Words, concepts seem to linger in thing air for a moment before being obliterated of all meaning. I find myself being an observer of a new world, that has no hard edges or definitions. Or linguistic description.

  You gotta learn to be calm and allow the experience to unfold. You'll learn to play and even manipulate it to an extent. But it takes practice.


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26956046 - 09/26/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

FOUND IT!! Give me a sec to post


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy] * 1
    #26956048 - 09/26/20 12:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2008393#2008393

Level 5 trips are actually very difficult to define. 

You can take enough shrooms to experience a level 5 trip but never get there because you're too consumed in fighting yourself from letting go and in turn you experience a nightmare trip. You fight with the past, future and present. You fight who you are and who want to become and the road you must travel to get there. You fight the physical world around you, using every ounce of mental strength you have trying to tell yourself that none of this is really happening. You fight the urge to cry. . . scream. . . break down in to a mangled heap of emotions. You fight yourself. You struggle and struggle and hold on with all your might. You try and comprehend what's going on inside you as well in your surrounding environment. You look to grasp onto anything that has a touch of reality to it. You have to convince yourself that you're not in a nightmare but merely on mushrooms. You tell yourself this over and over again. Then finally, hours later, you begin to descend back into reality. You're left scratching your head. "Gosh, that was a crazy experience... I don't think I'll do that again." Then you run to the shroomery and or to your friends and tell them about your crazy level 5 trip. You speak of the insanity of it all. You had no concept of anything. You couldn't even grasp the concept of you being alive. Then you move on with your life, thinking that your profound level 5 trip has changed your philosophy on life and your are much wiser for it. 

Well, you didn't experience a level 5 trip. 

With a true level 5 trip you have learned the trick of letting go. Even people who can transcend into level 5 trips have trouble letting go of who they are. What typically happens to me is I'll struggle with letting go for a long time. I tell myself I took way too much. I feel like I'm going insane. I'll tell myself I'm headed for a bad trip. I'll struggle and struggle and refuse to let go of my reality. I look for something real to grab. I'll look for a friend to talk to. I fight to urge to break down... Then something happens... I give up on fighting. My physical reality fades out. Memories of my past fly by me at light speed but some how I'm able to reflect on the entirety of them in a course of a second. I'm flying I think, feeling like I'm being pulled somewhere really fast, but what's interesting is there's nothing on my body to be pulled because I have no body. I arrive someplace. I don't know what or where it is but I don't care. I feel like I'm a rock or a tree or a drop of dew on a leaf observing a natures setting. Nothing seems to happens. I hear something calling me. I look and see nothing. I observe the beauty of the sun reflecting of the ripples in the water. Then in an instant I become the sun drenched ripple on the water. I feel the suns warmth. I roll over and turn back around. I see the shore from a distance. I am relaxed. I feel myself roll over again. This feeling of being liquid is truly amazing (although I'm not actually able to comprehend it at that moment. Only hours later am I able to put any of this together.) I slowly ripple towards the shoreline. I see a butterfly flutter over me. In a flash I am the butterfly. I flutter through the air towards the shore and land on the moist sandy shoreline. I take a drink off the damp ground. It is so soothing. I have been flying for hours and I'm really tired. I feel like I'm going to collapse. I feel like if I stay in this spot much longer I'll be in danger. I flutter over to plant leaf and rest my wings. I feel old. I relax my wings and try to think. I can't think. I don't know how to think. I melt into the leaf. I feel like liquid again. Everything is vividly green. I feel like I'm travelling through the vascular system of the plant, through it's stem in to its roots then back into the ground. I'm flying again. I'm being pulled harded then I was before. There's a sense of urgency to get somewhere. There are colors everywhere. I can taste them. I can hear them, I can feel them. I realize that I am a color. I'm blue. I'm weightless, moving fast. I see a window. I fly into it and then through it. I'm split in to many different rays. I start to feel myself breathing again. It feels good... like I'm coming home from a trip that lasted too long. I feel my legs and then arms. I feel my heart beating. I open my eyes. I'm laying in my room on the ground next to my couch. My friends watching MTV and laughing. Music is playing in the background. I don't know what it is but it feels good to hear. I lift my head off the ground and finally realize that I am in fact myself. It's hard to say if this is real at first. I still feel very intoxicated. I remind myself what's going on, or at least I try to remind myself. I look at the clock. "1:54" has no meaning to me. my previous days work floods into my mind. I feel anxious about it. I realize that I'm start to come down. I get up and sit on the couch next to my friend. I ask him how long I've been laying on the couch. He says he thinks I've been down there for 2 and a half hours. I turn my focus on to the television and quickly become engrossed in what happening. I am happy. I feel good. I have had a level 5 trip.”


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Edited by Gypsy Boy (09/26/20 02:48 PM)


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26956055 - 09/26/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

:gethigh::gethigh::gethigh::gethigh::gethigh::gethigh::gethigh:

That post, was probably the GREATEST post on shroomery, at least its my favourite


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Edited by Gypsy Boy (09/26/20 01:56 PM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: handsomedead]
    #26956184 - 09/26/20 02:07 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

handsomedead said:
I am just saying it is ego death because this experience I had was much more incredibly intense than any other trip I have had, and I think it was an ego death. I only ever did GT and the dosing for those seems to scale pretty normal. I tried to be a hero and I took 3g PE completely unaware of how much more potent these were. They were giant blobbed mutants that I got on my first flush and I had cut them into pieces before drying. Definitely noticed that PE are quite unpleasant tasting almost immediately and the texture closely resembles popcorn. The slices are pure white.

I am not trying to brag that I had an ego death experience but I dont know how else to describe what I went through. I have had plenty of trips on GT and I was able to calm myself down and deal with intensity on my own. But these PE... before I was peaking I can distinctly remember completely losing touch with reality. Any sense of who I was, what my likes were, what I do for a living, who my family was, etc began to be stripped from me. And i "went somewhere" I dont know where this place I went was. Nothing was recognizable about this place. There are no physical objects. Almost like a purgatory setting with colors and lines. I dont really feel like I learned anything either. It wasnt a profound experience due to how scared I was. It was just pure horror im sorry. Before I called for help I was pacing around my room taking my clothes off. I was sweating so much it was insane. I can also remember seriously believing that the only way to stop what I was going through was to injure myself. I dont know what I would have done, but I also distinctly remember thinking that stabbing my hands would feel good like scratching a good itch.





Sounds more like too high a dose to me, and then you had a fear reaction to what was happening.  This comes from bad set and setting IME.

The classic ego-death leaves you without a sense of self, but embedded in a larger conscious world, which is more akin to Buddhist doctrine, whereas you're describing something of a hell realm.

Perhaps they are linked though. :shrug:


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26956235 - 09/26/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> If level 5 is holdin' the mooon in your hand as it sings, then yes, been there.

I don't believe in the 'level 5' myth... I think a 'level 5 trip' can happen at any dosage, or no dosage.

Holding the moon in your hand as it sings... very strong level 4.
Being the song the moon is singing... 'level 5'. 




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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26956238 - 09/26/20 02:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Rose said:
Seuss gets a cookie.

Summerbreeze, you described a lvl 4 trip. Lvl 4 trips are the most intense trip you can have.

The trip rating system is very confusing. lvl 1-4 have to do with dosage. Lvl 5 does not.

lvl 5 is different entirely. If you think a lvl 5 trip is all about visualizations, you're confusing it with a lvl 4. Look at the bright side, you still have more to experience.

I swear, if you have a lvl 5 trip, the visualizations won't matter.
Lvl 5 is a spiritual awakening. You will know it when you experience true ego loss. 




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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #26956562 - 09/26/20 06:58 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Levels are a misguided way of thought.  That "level 5" trip report is an example of why this is so.  :yeahthatsright:


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26956649 - 09/26/20 08:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I don't understand the level system. It seems rather meaningless, an attempt to categorize an experience into digestible parts. After having tried higher doses i honestly believe that you have either taken enough to completely saturate yourself or you have not. The threshold as is dmt exists for psilocybin. Its not called a trip for  no reason and at a certain level of intoxication this door unlocks and you are flung into hyperspace.

  For me that dose range is around 4.5g and anything above that just adds fuel to the ship. I think that the ego loss is one being at peace with the universe. You make no attempt to push or pull, you just ride the immediate currents of reality. That can be attained at anytime, its just psychedelics really force you into that head space.


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InvisibleDruids
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26957358 - 09/27/20 11:54 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26957365 - 09/27/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
I don't understand the level system. It seems rather meaningless, an attempt to categorize an experience into digestible parts. After having tried higher doses i honestly believe that you have either taken enough to completely saturate yourself or you have not. The threshold as is dmt exists for psilocybin. Its not called a trip for  no reason and at a certain level of intoxication this door unlocks and you are flung into hyperspace.

  For me that dose range is around 4.5g and anything above that just adds fuel to the ship. I think that the ego loss is one being at peace with the universe. You make no attempt to push or pull, you just ride the immediate currents of reality. That can be attained at anytime, its just psychedelics really force you into that head space.




Jeah, pretty much - more or less - this. :cookiemonster:


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26957433 - 09/27/20 01:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Levels are a misguided way of thought.  That "level 5" trip report is an example of why this is so.  :yeahthatsright:



Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
I don't understand the level system. It seems rather meaningless, an attempt to categorize an experience into digestible parts.







I've always kinda "cringed" myself when ever people mention certain "levels", or when folks say things like "I had a level 4 trip", etc etc....Just sounds so cheesy and such a lame way to try to convey or categorize the experience. I totally understand why folks don't like referring to the effects of psychedelics as a certain "level".

With that said tho, I do feel the different "levels" convey the general idea of how intensely one is tripping/how far out they are. I get the idea of what one is talking about when they say they've had a "level 1 or 2 or 3 trip etc etc" .




Quote:

Level 1
This level produces a mild 'stoning' effect, with some visual enhancement (i.e. brighter colours etc.). Some short term memory anomalies. Left/right brain communication changes causing music to sound 'wider'.

Level 2
Bright colours and visuals (i.e. things start to move and breathe). Some 2-dimensional patterns become apparent upon shutting eyes. Confused or reminiscent thoughts. Change of short term memory leads to continual distractive thought patterns. Vast increase in abstract thought becomes apparent as the natural brain filter is bypassed.

Level 3
Very obvious visuals, everything looking curved and/or warped patterns and kaleidoscopes seen on walls, faces etc. Some mild hallucinations such as rivers flowing in wood grain or 'mother of pearl' surfaces. Closed-eye hallucinations become 3-dimensional. There is some confusing of the senses (synesthesia). Time distortions and 'moments of eternity'. Movement at times becomes extremely difficult (too much effort required).

Level 4
Strong hallucinations, i.e. objects morphing into other objects. Destruction or multiple splitting of the ego. Things start talking to you or you find that you are feeling contradictory things simultaneously. Some loss of reality. Time becomes meaningless. Out-of-body experiences and ESP type phenomena. Blending of the senses.

Level 5
Total loss of visual connection with reality. The senses cease to function in the normal way. Total loss of ego. Merging with space, other objects or the universe. The loss of reality becomes so severe that it defies explanation. The earlier levels are relatively easy to explain in terms of measureable changes in perception and thought patterns. This level is different in that the actual universe within which things are normally perceived, ceases to exist.







I do feel that sorta puts things into a nutshell with how the nature of psychedelics changes as dosage is increased and one gets deeper into it all.....

But I also feel that trying to categorize the psychedelic experience into distinct "levels" is a bit goofy, I understand why folks don't like the "level system" lol.





-OM

.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: openmind]
    #26957493 - 09/27/20 01:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Jeah, that too!  :cookiemonster:


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26957927 - 09/27/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I just trip with a dose that I think will be enough.  Usually works great, but I'd rather err on the high side than the low side. 

To me it's pointless to try to classify the trips in any other way, and having "levels" perpetuates the illusion of a conscious entity "having" a trip, i.e., it's another sneaky ego-based way to keep you from experiencing what's out there without perceptual filters.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26958029 - 09/27/20 09:31 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

True, but I classify it as an illusion we must learn to live with, or learn to know down to the last drop - or learn to undo/see through/be through -or just leave it as it is.  As in, it’s somehow part of our human condition to inevitably dualize and finitise that which is primordially always already unified and infinite by its own accord and nature, and sometimes it seems like we can’t just stop and see ourselves doing it. . . But there are those who know - we can - at least temporarily, stop, and truly see more clearly & know better.


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Edited by The Blind Ass (09/28/20 08:50 AM)


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: Gypsy Boy] * 1
    #26979496 - 10/11/20 05:51 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gypsy Boy said:

FOUND IT!! Give me a sec to post

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2008393#2008393






Yes - wonderful -- what this post shows is that what ego does is create the feeling that we are separate from the rest of the world -- and this is false --everything we do as egos (aka personalities) is in a sense stupid--and unnecessary...
When free of ego, the awareness freely melts in and out of everything (&/or "becomes" everything): in the post for example: the water -- the butterfly --- the plant---and the awareness is naturally spontaneously joyous
Therefore, it seems, so called  "ego "death" " is just a return to experiencing awareness when it is unconditioned by false beliefs.
The tragedy is that we are ordinarily so stuck, and often so resistant even when the opportunity to let go happens.


Edited by laughingdog (10/11/20 05:54 AM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26979893 - 10/11/20 11:53 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Nice ya :cheers:


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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26980994 - 10/12/20 07:44 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I agree that ego death is not related to the levels described, and I think the levels are described with a litter of phony neuropsychological terms such as left brain right brain communication etc.

some of us are too entangled with habits to have 'ego-death' at any dose, while others can transcend themselves before they realize they are one with the floor or the couch.  the levels are not up to the task, although, some aspects of the salvia scale levels seem more relevant, and not specific to salvia at all:

1. Subtle - noticeable subtle effects from a light dose of any psychoactive.
2. Altered - this was added just to make a salvia scale spelling - ok - it is subtle but essentially the glimmer of change or letting go, or catching on, however you go.
3. Light visual - if you have a bit more than a microdose of anything you will probably notice visual effects encroaching upon the edges of things, richer colors, and some pattern enhancement or patinas on surfaces.
4. Visionary - this is the sweet spot for me. strong alteration of visual perception, chimeric blended forms, entity visitations. all psychedelics have this potential.
5. Immaterial - this corresponds to the joining with inanimate or animated objects, you can be other than you were, through and through you are a doorknob or anything. This is the most intense psychedelic effect that you can remember (and represents the highest effective dose - one you need not ever exceed on any drug) except for:
6. Amnesia - which is the loss of memory, perception ceases, nothing is recognizable, and the user is normally comatose - with deliriants the user can wander mindlessly, and with salvia some people bash through their living room windows and join the flowers in the garden for no known reason. All psychoactives have the ability to reach this  overly affected or overdose extent of mental disruption.

these 'levels' or states of consciousness can be recognized with all the psychedelics and in emotional and distressed situations without any drugs at all.

ego loss and ego death is not a state, but a quality of mind characterized by a sense of freedom and pervasive love in the now. Some get there naturally in a process of letting go of habit and defensiveness, and others arrive after years of meditative practice in letting go of habit and defensiveness. there is no guarantee that you will have a drug induced ego loss experience even if you dose to the max 1000 times. even if you dose beyond the max 1000 times.

what is ego anyway, if not the habit of defensiveness.

EGO is not really something that drugs can "control". Instead people suppress their minds with opiates, and cns depressants to reduce the strengths of their minds - numbing their habituated pain responses to life.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Does Ego Death lead to the erasure of your consciousness? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26981029 - 10/12/20 08:06 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

that's not ok

good point about the windows

low doses are very great

including salvia

smoking plain leaf life gandalf


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