Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Premium Bali Kratom Powder   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | Next >
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26975415 - 10/08/20 12:35 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You linked to an article that purported to show a guy "foaming at the mouth".  I didn't see evidence of him foaming at the mouth in the picture though.




https://www.cbsnews.com/news/syria-inside-douma-the-site-of-apparent-chemical-attack-2018-04-16/

At the 1.18 minute mark



Cool, that's decent evidence.  Everyone originally suspected a nerve agent because of the foaming mouths, but that was ruled out in the final OPCW report.

I have a lot more to say (such as how the people in the chemical attack video I posted above testified they didn't have symptoms of a chemical attack, which the doctors also said).  But I'm insanely busy at work today and tomorrow, so I'll have to put this on hold a bit.  :mushroom2:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,946
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 11 hours, 48 minutes
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26975768 - 10/08/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Not a problem Falcon, thanks for the shroom :hatsoff: take your time and read through those links from Peter Wall/geographical imaginations.


I eagerly await your list of 50 questions  :crymyeyesout:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26979184 - 10/10/20 10:04 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Your article criticized Robert Fisk for not talking to doctors (he apparently only spoke with the head of the hospital) because the doctors were in Damascus at the time.  But he failed to mention that while in Damascus the doctors said they saw no signs of a chemical attack and they repeated the same when they travelled to The Hague.  Some testified that while staff were treating patients, strangers entered the hospital screaming about a chemical attack and started hosing people down with water.  But the doctors never found any evidence of a chemical attack.

I think the video evidence you provided above is the most compelling evidence I've seen of a chemical attack.  But an interesting thing to note:

The young man in your video also did another interview.  Watch below from 1:25 - 2:27:



Pay especially close attention to 2:13 - 2:27:  "...he blamed the rebel side for doing this, and also he blamed the White Helmets, the emergency service there, for not coming to rescue them when that happened".

:shocked:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26979194 - 10/10/20 10:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Are you conceding that Assad has used chlorine against his citizens? Yes or no



Not on 7 Apr 18 (see thread topic).



Dear Bashar al-Assad Apologists: Your Hero Is a War Criminal Even If He Didn’t Gas Syrians



So Assad is a war criminal even if he didn't gas Syrians in Douma on 7 Apr?  That's a topic for another thread, but it appears to concede the point of this particular thread.


Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Sound familiar?

https://geographicalimaginations.com/2018/04/24/gas-masques/



Yes, that's the article Stable Genius posted.  Is there a point in it you feel is worth focusing on?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,946
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 11 hours, 48 minutes
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26979440 - 10/11/20 03:55 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, so that's a big discrepancy between the Drs testimonies(do you have a link?) and the joint press release below from the Syrian-American Medical Society the Syrian Civil Defence (‘White Helmets’).

https://www.sams-usa.net/press_release/sams-syria-civil-defense-condemn-chemical-attack-douma/

Quote:

On Saturday, April 7th, at 7:45 PM local time, amidst continuous bombardment of residential neighborhoods in the city of Douma, more than 500 cases -the majority of whom are women and children- were brought to local medical centers with symptoms indicative of exposure to a chemical agent. Patients have shown signs of respiratory distress, central cyanosis, excessive oral foaming, corneal burns, and the emission of chlorine-like odor.

During clinical examination, medical staff observed bradycardia, wheezing and coarse bronchial sounds. One of the injured was declared dead on arrival. Other patients were treated with humidified oxygen and bronchodilators, after which their condition improved. In several cases involving more severe exposure to the chemical agents, medical staff put patients on a ventilator, including four children. Six casualties were reported at the center, one of whom was a woman who had convulsions and pinpoint pupils.



So the casualties were taken to local medical centres, not just one hospital. It's quite possible the Drs that gave testimony never saw any of the gassed victims from that building? There were over 500 casualties that evening.




The young man in the video also said this,
Quote:

We were sitting in the basement when it happened. The [missile] hit the house at 7 pm. We ran out while the women and children ran inside. They didn’t know the house had been struck from above and was totally filled with gas. Those who ran inside died immediately. I ran out completely dizzy…Everybody died. My wife, my brothers, my mother. Everybody died. Women and children sat in here, and boys and men sat there. Suddenly there was a sound as if the valve of a gas tube was opened. It’s very difficult to explain. I can’t explain. I don’t know what I should say. The situation makes me cry. Children and toddlers, around 25 children.



Now, I realise he is probably in shock and that he wants to blame someone, so that may explain his frustration towards the White Helmets, however if he was in the basement when the missile hit the house how did he know the rebels were responsible? He never says he saw anyone do anything.

Also, he quite clearly describes the
Quote:

sound as if the valve of a gas tube was opened





Here's the uncut footage of those poor people.




If the foam indicates the use of Sarin or something similar the commentators are also saying that the rebels had no way to produce Sarin, let alone produce chlorine, or even the equipment necessary to decant chlorine safely from a larger tank into those cannisters.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlinekoods
Ribbit
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,313
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 8 minutes, 30 seconds
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26979504 - 10/11/20 06:04 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Those are industrial chlorine tanks. They would be available to people in certain industries, like water treatment. Certainly available to government.

Chlorine would cause foaming


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlineshivas.wisdom
בּ
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,462
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 5 minutes, 54 seconds
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26979852 - 10/11/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Sound familiar?

https://geographicalimaginations.com/2018/04/24/gas-masques/



Yes, that's the article Stable Genius posted.  Is there a point in it you feel is worth focusing on?



Perhaps the specific passages that were included in my original post (and removed from your nested quote), that detail a pro-Assad disinformation campaign that closely parallels your own rhetoric in this thread, was the point I felt worth focusing on.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: koods]
    #26979968 - 10/11/20 12:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Ok, so that's a big discrepancy between the Drs testimonies(do you have a link?)...



Of course I have a link (I always do :smirk:).  Here's one from an establishment paper (the Guardian) doing their best to play it all down, calling both the doctors and victims "supposed witnesses" :wtf: and saying "the veracity the statements by the Russian-selected witnesses at The Hague will be challenged, since their ability to speak truthfully is limited."

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
...and the joint press release below from the Syrian-American Medical Society the Syrian Civil Defence (‘White Helmets’).



The 'White Helmets' are the ones who started the chemical attack story in the first place (as noted in my OP).  In fact, they're the ones behind just about every one of Syria's chemical attack stories.  Though the West likes to call the White Helmets a humanitarian volunteer group, they've received over $100 million in funding from the US and the UK.  Their reputation has become so bad, that they were removed from the final OPCW report as a source.  They've been shown to be al-Qaeda sympathizers, and Wikipedia even states "The White Helmets were also banned from entering Kurdish-controlled areas of Syria."

If I had to choose between believing the doctors or the White Helmets, I'd go with the doctors.  :shrug:

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
So the casualties were taken to local medical centres, not just one hospital. It's quite possible the Drs that gave testimony never saw any of the gassed victims from that building? There were over 500 casualties that evening.



Possibly.  Since Syria has Government healthcare, I'm not sure if there would be healthcare centers all over a city of about 100,000 people.  Currently, there is only one.

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
The young man in the video also said this,
Quote:

We were sitting in the basement when it happened. The [missile] hit the house at 7 pm. We ran out while the women and children ran inside. They didn’t know the house had been struck from above and was totally filled with gas. Those who ran inside died immediately. I ran out completely dizzy…Everybody died. My wife, my brothers, my mother. Everybody died. Women and children sat in here, and boys and men sat there. Suddenly there was a sound as if the valve of a gas tube was opened. It’s very difficult to explain. I can’t explain. I don’t know what I should say. The situation makes me cry. Children and toddlers, around 25 children.



Now, I realise he is probably in shock and that he wants to blame someone, so that may explain his frustration towards the White Helmets, however if he was in the basement when the missile hit the house how did he know the rebels were responsible? He never says he saw anyone do anything.

Also, he quite clearly describes the
Quote:

sound as if the valve of a gas tube was opened






That's a fair point - I agree he was guessing about who was responsible.  But it's also very telling how the locals feel about Assad vs the Rebel Government.

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Here's the uncut footage of those poor people.




If the foam indicates the use of Sarin or something similar the commentators are also saying that the rebels had no way to produce Sarin, let alone produce chlorine, or even the equipment necessary to decant chlorine safely from a larger tank into those cannisters.



Those are industrial chlorine tanks. They would be available to people in certain industries, like water treatment. Certainly available to government.

Chlorine would cause foaming



Maybe koods has a point?  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26979974 - 10/11/20 12:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Is there a point in it you feel is worth focusing on?



Perhaps the specific passages that were included in my original post (and removed from your nested quote), that detail a pro-Assad disinformation campaign that closely parallels your own rhetoric in this thread, was the point I felt worth focusing on.



It's odd how the people bringing up evidence (or pointing out the lack thereof) are the ones who are part of a "disinformation campaign" while those who believe the White Helmets are the ones to be believed.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26979987 - 10/11/20 12:58 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Perhaps the specific passages that were included in my original post.



Pick your favorite point and let's discuss it further.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26980137 - 10/11/20 02:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Perhaps the specific passages that were included in my original post (and removed from your nested quote), that detail a pro-Assad disinformation campaign that closely parallels your own rhetoric in this thread, was the point I felt worth focusing on.



By the way, here's another timely video showing the US ambassador to the UN saying how anyone who disagrees with the official US narrative is part of a Russian disinformation campaign.  Then she gets interrupted by a professor emeritus at MIT who angrily reminds her that he is a US citizen.  :lol:

Watch from 20:18 to 24:24 (or watch the whole video if you have time - it's really good):



Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/11/20 03:10 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,946
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 11 hours, 48 minutes
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26980269 - 10/11/20 04:35 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

How about we dismiss the bun fight between the overpaid(war zone $$$) inspectors with wounded egos, we won't get anywhere. And lets face it, by the time they arrived in Syria too much time had elapsed to prove anything.

The evidence we can see is probably as valid :shrug: for instance, the amount of fucking around involved in getting those cannisters into position to stage that. That story in itself is absurd.

Seriously, how did a team of rebels get those cannisters to that house, up those stairs, without being seen? Don't forget this is in the middle of an air raid with dust so bad that people were hospitalised.
Also, how would a person knock the end off that gas cannister? (You can clearly see the iced up end of the cannister from the rapid decanting of the gas in one of those videos)... I'd suggest bare minimum a sledge hammer and also suggest that act, apart from being quite dangerous, would be extremely difficult to achieve without someone noticing.

Nobody has come forward with ANY evidence to support seeing ANYONE moving big yellow gas cannisters through a bombed city to an apartment block, drag them upstairs and belt the end off one, there were 2 cannisters don't forget, and then make their getaway.
I'd suggest that is impossible.
That they came out of a helicoptor makes a lot more sense.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,946
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 11 hours, 48 minutes
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26980274 - 10/11/20 04:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Ok, so that's a big discrepancy between the Drs testimonies(do you have a link?)...



Of course I have a link (I always do :smirk:).  Here's one from an establishment paper (the Guardian) doing their best to play it all down




:awkwardconfusion:

I don't have a Guardian subscription anymore but the bit I could see said this

Quote:

Russia has been accused of carrying out an “obscene masquerade” for transporting 17 Syrian people to Europe to assert that no chemical weapons attack occurred in the town of Douma earlier this month.






Edit, hmmm I can read it :thumbup:


Edited by Stable Genius (10/11/20 04:47 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,946
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 11 hours, 48 minutes
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26980290 - 10/11/20 05:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/08/syria-aid-workers-tell-of-apocalyptic-scenes-douma-alleged-chemical-attack

Quote:

“We were 12 people, and before the attack you can imagine, we had been working perhaps 30 hours or more without stopping,” said one paramedic who treated the victims. “Then you start getting a lot of people who are suffocating, and they smell of chlorine, and imagine after all that exhaustion you get this huge number of people, around 70, targeted while they were in bomb shelters.”




Close to 50 people died, some made it out, he's on the money with his number estimate I think


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,946
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 11 hours, 48 minutes
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26980343 - 10/11/20 05:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Jimmy Dore's story about the proposed gas pipeline from Qatar being the reason for the conflict has a few holes in it.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/big-story/pipelineistan-conspiracy-war-syria-has-never-been-about-gas


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26980375 - 10/11/20 06:21 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
How about we dismiss the bun fight between the overpaid(war zone $$$) inspectors with wounded egos, we won't get anywhere.



So ignore the experts, and go with the West's narrative that they established before the inspections even began?  :shrug:

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
And lets face it, by the time they arrived in Syria too much time had elapsed to prove anything.



Agreed.  But why did they arrive so late?  The US narrative was that Russia vetoed a resolution to inspect.  But as usual, many western media never tell the whole story.  As I pointed out in an article I posted when this first happened:
Quote:

Russia and western allies vote against each other’s proposals
.
Russia vetoed a US resolution creating a new independent investigative mechanism for chemical weapons attacks in Syria, arguing that it would become a propaganda tool of the west.

A Russian counter-proposal, establishing an investigative mechanism but leaving final decisions on whom to blame for chemical weapons to the security council, failed to win enough votes in the council.




Quote:

Stable Genius said:
The evidence we can see is probably as valid :shrug: for instance, the amount of fucking around involved in getting those cannisters into position to stage that. That story in itself is absurd.

Seriously, how did a team of rebels get those cannisters to that house, up those stairs, without being seen? Don't forget this is in the middle of an air raid with dust so bad that people were hospitalised.
Also, how would a person knock the end off that gas cannister? (You can clearly see the iced up end of the cannister from the rapid decanting of the gas in one of those videos)... I'd suggest bare minimum a sledge hammer and also suggest that act, apart from being quite dangerous, would be extremely difficult to achieve without someone noticing.

Nobody has come forward with ANY evidence to support seeing ANYONE moving big yellow gas cannisters through a bombed city to an apartment block, drag them upstairs and belt the end off one, there were 2 cannisters don't forget, and then make their getaway.
I'd suggest that is impossible.



I do see your point.  But if your goal was to fake an attack, I don't think it would be impossible.  They had most of the night to get it done (if there was a chemical attack at all - the White Helmets aren't the most reliable source of information).

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
I don't have a Guardian subscription anymore but the bit I could see said this

Quote:

Russia has been accused of carrying out an “obscene masquerade” for transporting 17 Syrian people to Europe to assert that no chemical weapons attack occurred in the town of Douma earlier this month.







Right, that's what I already discussed.  Western mainstream media always pushes the Western narrative.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #26980536 - 10/11/20 08:04 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/08/syria-aid-workers-tell-of-apocalyptic-scenes-douma-alleged-chemical-attack

Quote:

“We were 12 people, and before the attack you can imagine, we had been working perhaps 30 hours or more without stopping,” said one paramedic who treated the victims. “Then you start getting a lot of people who are suffocating, and they smell of chlorine, and imagine after all that exhaustion you get this huge number of people, around 70, targeted while they were in bomb shelters.”






I find it funny that the kid in the main picture of your story is one of the people who came out and said he was rushed to the hospital and doused with water for no apparent reason.

Nonetheless, your article does show that a paramedic says he smelled chlorine.  I wonder if that kid smelled of chlorine?


Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Jimmy Dore's story about the proposed gas pipeline from Qatar being the reason for the conflict has a few holes in it.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/big-story/pipelineistan-conspiracy-war-syria-has-never-been-about-gas



Two problems with this argument:

1.  It says "neither pipeline has left the drawing board".  That's because the US didn't win the war.
2.  Did you forget the video I posted here?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Onlineshivas.wisdom
בּ
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,462
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 5 minutes, 54 seconds
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26980547 - 10/11/20 08:15 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Those who have sought to defend the Assad regime against the charge of using chemical weapons in Douma have followed two main avenues. A first response has been simply to dismiss the reports as ‘chemical fabrications’ and ‘deceitful speculations’: to insist that there was no evidence of a chemical weapons attack.

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I do see your point.  But if your goal was to fake an attack, I don't think it would be impossible.  They had most of the night to get it done (if there was a chemical attack at all - the White Helmets aren't the most reliable source of information).





As the videos and testimonies I cited earlier circulated, the outright denials were replaced by an altogether more sensational scenario.  Russian and Syrian officials claimed that the attack had been staged by Jaish al-Islam in concert with the Syrian Civil Defence (‘White Helmets’) and, by implication, the Syrian-American Medical Society and other NGOs.

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The 'White Helmets' are the ones who started the chemical attack story in the first place (as noted in my OP).  In fact, they're the ones behind just about every one of Syria's chemical attack stories.





The disinformation campaign relied on two manoeuvres.  The first was a counter-argument in the form of a question: what advantage could the Assad regime conceivably hope to gain by using chemical weapons when its forces were on the brink of defeating JAI and bringing all of East Ghouta under their control?  This is a familiar tactic.

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
And I'm saying it would have been absolutely stupid for Assad to launch a chemical attack which he KNOWS would bring the west back into the conflict, just before taking out one of the last rebel strongholds.





The second manoeuvre involved in the attempted indictment of JAI and others opposed to the Assad regime has been to substitute alternative evidence to counter the prosecutorial force of the videos, first-hand observations and expert testimony I detailed earlier. The final series of exhibits has involved the substitution of other witnesses who vehemently deny that a chemical attack took place in Douma.  Both Russia and Syria claim to have discovered witnesses whose testimony contradicts those I cited earlier.  Most deny that any chemical weapons attack occurred, but a recent report by Robert Fisk for the Independent offers a particularly revealing example.

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The inspectors never saw any of the bodies.  They used pictures and videos posted to the internet around that time.  But more importantly, Robert Fisk went to Douma right after the attack, and reported that "...the head of the field hospital where the victims had been treated insisted they knew nothing of gas.  The doctor, who was at his home near the hospital at the time, insisted that the patients were suffering from hypoxia – from dust and dirt inhalation from the air bombings, and that someone whom he identified as a “White Helmet” NGO worker shouted “Gas!” and started a panic among the victims. The official OPCW report records precisely the same events, along with the doctor’s memory of the man who shouted “Gas!”. But interestingly the OPCW did not identify the man as a “White Helmet”."

That entire article is worth a read




--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,946
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 11 hours, 48 minutes
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26980568 - 10/11/20 08:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Two problems with this argument:

1.  It says "neither pipeline has left the drawing board".  That's because the US didn't win the war.
2.  Did you forget the video I posted here?




1 problem with that argument :lol: gas demand in the EU is projected to be flat for the foreseeable future as Russia has that market stitched up and the Saudi's aren't interested in any pipelines from Qatar... which is probably why they're now the world's largest exporter of LNG.
from Wiki
Quote:

Since 1997, Qatar has been exporting LNG from the North Field. In 2006, Qatar surpassed Indonesia as the world's largest LNG exporter. Based on the massive gas resources of the field, Qatar is developing the world biggest LNG export facilities in order to reach the capacity of 77 million metric ton per year by 2012.




And no I hadn't forgotten ok I had but with Exon Mobil ultimately owning those Syrian fields I thought the consensus was that Trump bailed out and was happy for Russia and Turkey and Syria to fight over what was left as long as the U.S. kept their oil safe.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26980577 - 10/11/20 08:42 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I don't see your point at all.  Yes, the guy is describing how the story seems to unfolding.  But HE'S the one manipulating YOU by throwing in deceptive wording.

For example:

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
The disinformation campaign relied on two manoeuvres.  The first was a counter-argument in the form of a question: what advantage could the Assad regime conceivably hope to gain by using chemical weapons when its forces were on the brink of defeating JAI and bringing all of East Ghouta under their control?  This is a familiar tactic.

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
And I'm saying it would have been absolutely stupid for Assad to launch a chemical attack which he KNOWS would bring the west back into the conflict, just before taking out one of the last rebel strongholds.






Another person writing A VERY SIMILAR article could have just as easily said:

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
The people who looked into the truth asked an important question:  What advantage could the Assad regime conceivably hope to gain by using chemical weapons when its forces were on the brink of defeating JAI and bringing all of East Ghouta under their control?  It's a brilliant question.




See how that works?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | Next >

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Left Coast Kratom Premium Bali Kratom Powder   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Saddam's al Qaeda Connection (Salman Pak) lonestar2004 1,164 0 06/30/05 12:49 PM
by lonestar2004
* al-Qaeda: We Will Blow Up The White House
( 1 2 all )
DiploidM 5,020 37 11/15/06 01:09 PM
by The_Red_Crayon
* War in Lebanon by July 15th (syria gives citizens in lebanon deadline) The_Red_Crayon 716 2 07/08/07 11:30 AM
by John Smith
* Syrian minister commits suicide Unagipie 575 1 10/12/05 10:12 AM
by afoaf
* Cartoon Protesters Rampage in Pakistan (Is This Really About Cartoons Anymore?) Catalysis 1,556 10 02/17/06 06:00 PM
by kilgore_trout
* A Lobby named "Israel" MAIA 2,515 19 07/14/06 09:44 PM
by xDuckYouSuckerx
* Journalists... gotta love 'em
( 1 2 3 all )
Phred 2,996 55 10/02/08 11:53 PM
by zouden
* Bush apology makes "all the difference in the world" Phred 772 3 05/11/04 12:19 PM
by Phred

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
6,500 topic views. 5 members, 0 guests and 7 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 14 queries.