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Offlineataribravo
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Spawn bag - Is it contaminated?
    #26973842 - 10/07/20 01:29 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Often my spawn bags look like this. I always thought they looked fully colonized, but maybe they're contaminated in a way I am unfamiliar with. I know green, grey and black molds and yellowish-brown slime, but I just read this description on a contaminate type and it has me concerned:

• UNUSUALLY SMOOTH AND SPONGY MYCELIUM
Some types of molds can form a very dense mycelium. If you cultivate in jars, this unwanted fungus can quickly fill up the volume of the jar. You can spot it by its smooth, sponge-like appearance, which is distinct from the actual mushroom mycelium.

Is that what is happening or do the photos show a proper fully colonized grain bag? Also, if anyone can reply with a photo of what it should look like, that would be most appreciated. Thanks!!



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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: ataribravo]
    #26974034 - 10/07/20 03:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Your bag is soaking wet and bacterial as hell. You can try top fruiting it with verm before mold takes over.


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Offlineseand04
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: JHOVA]
    #26974050 - 10/07/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

la mala :sad:


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Offlineataribravo
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: JHOVA]
    #26974124 - 10/07/20 04:22 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JHOVA said:
Your bag is soaking wet and bacterial as hell. You can try top fruiting it with verm before mold takes over.



I just read about over-incubating and how that can cause contamination. Do you think that is what happened here? I've also read condensation is normal and not a problem "Condensation is normal and is fine." Is that not true?


Edited by ataribravo (10/07/20 04:33 PM)


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Offlineataribravo
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: seand04]
    #26974130 - 10/07/20 04:29 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

seand04 said:
la mala :sad:



Everything I've read said look for green or grey or black molds or yellow/brown slime. I've thought all solidly white meant fully colonized and okay. Are there typical causes for this?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: ataribravo]
    #26974189 - 10/07/20 05:10 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ataribravo said:
I just read about over-incubating and how that can cause contamination. Do you think that is what happened here?




How on earth would we know that?  You haven't said anything about what you did with this bag.  Did you use an incubator?


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Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlineataribravo
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: Forrester]
    #26974289 - 10/07/20 06:20 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

ataribravo said:
I just read about over-incubating and how that can cause contamination. Do you think that is what happened here?




How on earth would we know that?  You haven't said anything about what you did with this bag.  Did you use an incubator?



Fair point. Let me know if this is enough detail. We inoculated the bag with a colonized petri that showed no signs of contam (nice wispy white rhizo) using the blended LI method. This was done with sterilized equipment in front of a flow hood with gloves, tyvek sleeves and masks worn. About 50ml was poured in and then sealed with a wire wrap and shake the bag. These are set on a shelf with natural, indirect sunlight and the temps are kept between 68 and 72 degrees.

If you want details on how we prepare and sterilize grain or make petris I can do that. Just let me know...


Edited by ataribravo (10/07/20 06:28 PM)


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Offlineseand04
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: ataribravo]
    #26974296 - 10/07/20 06:30 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Fruit it see what happens. :dancer:


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OfflinePretendhole
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: seand04]
    #26974464 - 10/07/20 08:23 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Are those chi-coms?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: ataribravo]
    #26974831 - 10/08/20 02:23 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ataribravo said:
How on earth would we know that?  You haven't said anything about what you did with this bag.  Did you use an incubator?



Fair point. Let me know if this is enough detail. We inoculated the bag with a colonized petri that showed no signs of contam (nice wispy white rhizo) using the blended LI method. This was done with sterilized equipment in front of a flow hood with gloves, tyvek sleeves and masks worn. About 50ml was poured in and then sealed with a wire wrap and shake the bag. These are set on a shelf with natural, indirect sunlight and the temps are kept between 68 and 72 degrees.





Now that's more helpful! :smile:

No I don't think over-incubating was your issue.  Sounds like you did everything right, but there's always the chance a bit of contamination could have managed to get in there.  If it were me I would probably fruit it anyway.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlineataribravo
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: Forrester]
    #26975535 - 10/08/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Now that's more helpful! :smile:

No I don't think over-incubating was your issue.  Sounds like you did everything right, but there's always the chance a bit of contamination could have managed to get in there.  If it were me I would probably fruit it anyway.



JHOVA said this was "bacterial as hell" (and you seem to agree), but no one has said with what. Is this contamination as common as say, trich? What is it? I am also posting some new images of a different bag and the interior. We always thought this looked healthy and fully colonized. :confused: Any help identifying the type of mold/bacteria would be wonderful. Thanks!





Edited by ataribravo (10/08/20 01:51 PM)


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: ataribravo]
    #26975543 - 10/08/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

You dont want thick ice cream looking growth as that's not healthy mycelium. Id still fruit it but be prepared for contams.

Thry pics you just posted are similar to the original ones.


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Offlineataribravo
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: JHOVA]
    #26975670 - 10/08/20 03:06 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JHOVA said:
You dont want thick ice cream looking growth as that's not healthy mycelium. Id still fruit it but be prepared for contams.

Thry pics you just posted are similar to the original ones.



That look is what I have always gotten (consistently) and is why I thought it was okay and, since it's not, why I'm trying to get it identified. Do you know what it is or what might be causing it? Or a place to look? Thanks!! :-)


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: ataribravo]
    #26975686 - 10/08/20 03:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Can i ask is this LC or spore syringe inoculation? I dont know the specific type of contam just that it is a contam. Tmethyl has a thread on contams.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17231150/fpart/1/vc/1


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: JHOVA]
    #26975698 - 10/08/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

When we say bacterial we mean bacteria, I'm not sure what further identification you're looking for.  We cannot identify the species of bacteria.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlineataribravo
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: JHOVA]
    #26975905 - 10/08/20 06:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JHOVA said:
Can i ask is this LC or spore syringe inoculation? I dont know the specific type of contam just that it is a contam. Tmethyl has a thread on contams.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17231150/fpart/1/vc/1



These were inoculated with LI (Liquid Inoculant). Basically blended colonized agar in distilled water and then poured into the bag and sealed.


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OfflineCocaineBuffet
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: ataribravo]
    #26975924 - 10/08/20 06:39 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Do you have pics of the plate you used to make the LI? Sounds like you were doing things correctly. Possibly the culture could be what is causing this thick growth.


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Offlinesmalltalk_canceled
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: CocaineBuffet]
    #26975952 - 10/08/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

You can see in the pics that its bacterial too.
Not sure OP realizes

Guesstimate: too much water


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Edited by smalltalk_canceled (10/08/20 06:55 PM)


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: smalltalk_canceled]
    #26976010 - 10/08/20 07:33 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

If you are pouring blended agar from a jar into a bag i wouldnt do that unless you have a flowhood. Bags in a sab should only be injected with a syringe.

Bags in a sab is clumsy and leads to lots of contamination. I failed many times trying to get it to work even with a very large sab.

Id recommend pre sealing with zip ties, folding the bag to get as much air out and then injecting your liquid through a piece of masking tape. Id also recommend making a ship or a luer lock metal attachment to lessen contams and making LC via josex biopsy tek.

Might be too much liquid as well as others noted.


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Offlineseand04
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: JHOVA]
    #26976136 - 10/08/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JHOVA said:
If you are pouring blended agar from a jar into a bag i wouldnt do that unless you have a flowhood. Bags in a sab should only be injected with a syringe.

Bags in a sab is clumsy and leads to lots of contamination. I failed many times trying to get it to work even with a very large sab.

Id recommend pre sealing with zip ties, folding the bag to get as much air out and then injecting your liquid through a piece of masking tape. Id also recommend making a ship or a luer lock metal attachment to lessen contams and making LC via josex biopsy tek.

Might be too much liquid as well as others noted.



I am starting with bags and it is difficult as hell to get a wedge in a bag in my SAB. I am going to do the bags with LC for agar from now on.


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Offlinejgotti
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: ataribravo]
    #26976239 - 10/08/20 10:21 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

What do these bags smell like (inside the bag, of course)?

If they are riddled with bacteria, you'll know with one sniff.


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Offlinesmalltalk_canceled
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Re: Spawn bag - Is it contaminated? [Re: jgotti]
    #26976892 - 10/09/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Somebody wrote the other day that bags are clumsy for sabs.
I have experienced this as well.

But like the posts point out, the grain prep was probably
bad here. Too much water, causing big amounts of bacteria,
visible in the slimy, glossy, snow cone look.

If it smelled like yeast (my bet) you can be 1000% sure
your sub is overrun with bacteria. Im fruiting one of those
fuckers now, but the [VERDICT] is that its [FAIL] to create
bacterial spawn - its just dramatically better at fruiting
than moldy spawn, which wont reach any fruiting stage indoors.

This aint axenic spawn now, but it may have been at the time you transfered

Very classic problem at all stages in the hobby
Moisture Madness

and ya boys the bacterias they aint no light men of honor,
they will pull any kind of trick to visit our grow,
they always there, lurking, waiting.


Edited by smalltalk_canceled (10/09/20 11:40 AM)


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