|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: laughingdog] 1
#26991149 - 10/18/20 08:41 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Consciousness creates universes and neurons. Consciousness is the energy of being alive. What entails being alive includes photons that need to be created in our sun. Those are also you, and without them your experience is meaningless.
For most humans consciousness is the mistaken feeling that feelings happen behind your eyes and between your ears.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: bodhisatta]
#26991294 - 10/18/20 10:59 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Consciousness creates universes and neurons. Consciousness is the energy of being alive. What entails being alive includes photons that need to be created in our sun. Those are also you, and without them your experience is meaningless.
For most humans consciousness is the mistaken feeling that feelings happen behind your eyes and between your ears.
I don't think we can generalize what most think this word means as we are being inconsistent in its usage.
however you may have this backwards, thinking that there is a creator (consciousness) that makes neurons, rather than following the trail that neurons do make towards consciousness that is, if you accept the "meaning of consciousness" to be: awareness (1) mixed with memory formation (2) and recollection (3) (aka perception) as I do.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: redgreenvines]
#26991301 - 10/18/20 11:02 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Consciousness is the creater and observer. You had to do a lot of work before you were born to be born in the first place. Just like you produce fingernails "subconsciously" you also make black holes in some far corner of the cosmos
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: bodhisatta]
#26991410 - 10/18/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Edit: no posting while bubbling
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (10/18/20 12:29 PM)
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: bodhisatta]
#26991440 - 10/18/20 12:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Consciousness is the creater and observer. You had to do a lot of work before you were born to be born in the first place. Just like you produce fingernails "subconsciously" you also make black holes in some far corner of the cosmos
Before I was born, I was not me, and I did not work. my fingernails are produced by specialized skin cells. I began as a specific goo drop and slowly came to know myself, without having anyone else feed me theories.
Maybe you think that the subconscious is subcutaneous nail producing tissue. That would make a lot of sense to the American Association of Cuticles.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: redgreenvines]
#26991465 - 10/18/20 12:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
You're enshrined in a world of things. Sperate things. That's only useful for communication not philosophy
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: bodhisatta]
#26991503 - 10/18/20 01:28 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Enshrined? just because someone agrees or disagrees with something I have written or said? well halleluiah!
Which 'separate' (note the spelling) things enshrine me?
[you are not a real bodhisattva are you?]
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: redgreenvines]
#26992012 - 10/18/20 08:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: redgreenvines]
#26997138 - 10/21/20 10:57 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said: To the discussion about "when a baby develops consciousness"
in 2013 a science reporter declared that (flawed) evidence pointed to 5 months old as the age when a baby has consciousness.
This is now being rolled back, all the way back to a reasonable definition of consciousness as a thing separate from awareness.
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/consciousness-goes-deeper-than-you-think
https://ejop.psychopen.eu/index.php/ejop/article/view/1388/pdf ;
Towards the end he reveals that there is no sub-consciousness - I am no longer alone in this, although he blurs the clarity of it by extrapolating that since consciousness is so pervasive, it is everywhere.
I think that is because he is disconnecting memory from the question "what does it feel like?" because if there is no memory - it never feels LIKE anything.
Someone else is in agreement about an error. The UNconscious is the psychic matrix from which consciousness emerges, and from ego-consciousness which culminates in reason there are trans-rational conditions that extend beyond the rational but which include prior states. This is the meaning of transcendence. It does not pertain merely to supramundane states. Ken Wilber's works elaborate this theme of transcendence. The term subconscious is best reserved for liminal awareness between consciousness and the more shallow levels of the unconscious. The subconscious is demonstrated in the perception of subliminal images for example and with suggestion as simple as yawning after one sees another person yawn. I've even written the word yawn or yawn now and saw 2/3 of a classroom of kids respond by yawning. The so-called subconscious is operqting during the fleeting perception of micro-expressions on people's faces.
There are also intrauterine memories and memories of the birth trauma to be considered. I point to the work of Otto Rank and more recently to Stanislav Grof's work with psychedelically revivified intrauterine memories. It may take 6 months for ego-consciousness to develop in a neonate but that first expression of self-consciousness is an embodied ego. The child realizes there is an experiential difference between biting a blanket or toy and biting one's thumb for example. Consciousness is a term that covers the whole continuum from Collective Unconscious though degrees of personal unconsciousness in Delta-wave sleep through Theta-wave states with reveries and dreams and lucid dreams to full waking consciousness and beyond.
I relived my biological birth on a very high insufflated dose of LSD just days before my 20th birthday. But when I was in early single-digit ages, vomiting was accompanied by a very primal fear. It is my contention that the contractions of the abdominal muscles and the sensation of hot liquid being expelled from the stomach elicited birth trauma memories in which hot amniotic fluid is likewise being forced up the throat and out the mouth during the delivery process. I have recalled incidents that took place before my 30th month of life, some probably within the first 18 months that were corroborated by one or both of my parents. I can recall my first nightmares that occurred by my 30th month of life and one some time before 30 months. For a long time developmentalists denied complex memories in young children and neonates supposedly because of incomplete myelination of the nervous system but I consider this to be yet another error to have been surpassed. Cognitive development occurs gradually, just read Jean Piaget's work fo explication.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
|
Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#26997295 - 10/22/20 04:18 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said: ok maybe some people need subconscious, and a few need god too, maybe that's why we have a pope.
UGK always said there was no subconscious too. Seems to me though that there are definitely things I'm not aware enough to realise about my psyche. I've had parts of my life where these things have suddenly been "released" often with disastrous effects. Between that and dreams it's not hard to see where people might get the idea of a subconscious even if it doesn't present as a literally seperate part of consciousness (which is akin to believing in fairy tales by my analysis).
If I had to define it I would define it in something like this clumsy manner "that which we are not currently aware of in the present moment and which some people have a greater ability to become aware of in future moments which capacity for may then be a precedent for behaviour and thought."
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: Grapefruit]
#26997375 - 10/22/20 06:06 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
sorry @Grapefruit, I have lost the thread who is UGK (I get Underground Kings from search)
@MarkosTheGnostic, your path has been one of tremendous writhing effort and repackaging your life from Jewish boy to Christian man to New Age Functional and Educational pillar of the community.
You have managed miraculously turning the ephemeral into solid footing temporarily as you progressed magically one psychedelic step at a time.
I can only formulate your path using poetry patience and awe.
facts are immaterial in this story and it need not be any other way.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: redgreenvines]
#26999402 - 10/23/20 09:55 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
UG Krishnamurti. I have written about him frequently in the forums and I am surprised that you haven't looked into him much, you being buddhist(?) as to my way of thinking out of the many claimants he is the only one in roughly a thousand years to have attained nirvana.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: Grapefruit]
#26999496 - 10/23/20 11:01 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I used to be head over heals about buddhism, after my first book about buddhist meditation when I was 14. I have not found it again, but I do dream of it, lovely little brown hard bound volume in a 14 year old's exploratory hands, describing the jhanas and the wheel of life.
I met many buddhists, along the way, and some likely bodhisattvas, rinpoches, and bhikkhus, but what sticks for me is the method not the person or the results.
Some buddhist terms may not even be relevant, such as nibbana, or nirvana. You may aim in the goal type direction, but the direction is actually your own path. so I prefer the term tathagatho, the one who has walked this way with awareness.
Meeting people with the tathagatho vibe going is wonderful. how they move seems totally normal but how they avoid calamity while seeming normal is sublime.
so, no, I am sorry to have not bathed in the light of UG Krishnamurti, but if he is for real and you can be nearby, it will be a learning experience or a delight or both.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: redgreenvines]
#26999631 - 10/23/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Your knowledge on the buddhist field is astounding.
I like it.
|
Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: redgreenvines]
#27000018 - 10/23/20 04:15 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Well yeah that all makes sense, but it doesn't even pique your interest huh? Perhaps it would only be a contamination.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
|
DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: Grapefruit]
#27000045 - 10/23/20 04:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Krishnamurti was definitely a very special fellow.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
|
Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: DividedQuantum]
#27000775 - 10/24/20 03:30 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
hehe
good to avoid calamity
one could also not wish harm upon others
then one can't do something wrong
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
|
Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: Ferdinando]
#27000778 - 10/24/20 03:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
one of the most wonderful subjects I know is how to live one's life
and how close one is to the ideal
and how one moves closer to it
this and meditation where the benefits pile up over the years (as they say) are extremely similar
what they mean (what they mean to it) are extremely similar
because when something is good it is like living one's life more ideally
like doing more ideally
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: Ferdinando]
#27000835 - 10/24/20 06:15 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
in which case ideal is an living idea in mind and is part of awareness and appreciation rather than a fixed idea of what is good.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
|
Re: Voila! somebody else writing about "No Subconscious" [Re: redgreenvines]
#27001205 - 10/24/20 12:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
most humans are not aware enough on a conscious level to know that their subconscious even exists!
|
|