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sandbm5
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Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate
#26958014 - 09/27/20 09:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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So I know this question has been probably asked and answered on this forum many times but I can never find an answer for this one exact method of created substrate for a monotub.
I’m thinking about using this method for my monotub: https://www.shroomology.org/forums/topic/46-how-to-grow-shrooms-in-bulk-monotubs/
The only problem in this guide is that instead of using the Pasteurization method he wants you to use the Sterilization method with the PC for your bulk substrate. I know that pasteurization helps keep some of the good bacteria in the nutrients in the substrate to help fight off contamination but he says that you need to use the PC for your substrate.
Anybody have any luck with this method?
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eLeSDenes
Mycelium Expander




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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: sandbm5]
#26958063 - 09/27/20 10:11 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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dude just use coir and verm - basically just add water, no need to pasteurise or sterilise.
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pureshrooming
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: eLeSDenes]
#26958103 - 09/27/20 10:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sterilizing the substrate is going to leave you open for more contaminants. Pasteurization is what you are looking for but if you're using coir and verm a true pasteurization isn't necessary. I use the tried and true bucket tek.
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NecroMyce
Mostly Ghostly



Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 747
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: eLeSDenes]
#26958137 - 09/27/20 11:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
pureshrooming said: Sterilizing the substrate is going to leave you open for more contaminants. Pasteurization is what you are looking for but if you're using coir and verm a true pasteurization isn't necessary. I use the tried and true bucket tek.
I also have wondered this, if i can avoid a couple hours of sterlization prep and doing the sterlization in a PC that would be nice, i used the bucket tek a few times with no problems.I use just coir and verm, maybe a little lime or gypsum depeind on the tek i follow.
But technically the bucket tek is partial pasteurizing
Quote:
eLeSDenes said: dude just use coir and verm - basically just add water, no need to pasteurise or sterilise.
So you just mix, get your field capacity correct and you add it directly to your spawn with no bucket tek, no boiling water? nothing?
I have read that if you dont properly pasteurize your substrate and your casing it can and will invite contams in.
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sporecap
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: NecroMyce]
#26958177 - 09/28/20 12:17 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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You only need to pasteurize or sterilize your substrate if it is nutritious, so if you use coir you don't. Still, soaking a coir block with boiling water is much better since it helps a lot with water absorption and expansion of the block.
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NecroMyce
Mostly Ghostly



Registered: 05/12/13
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: sporecap]
#26959454 - 09/28/20 09:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sporecap said: You only need to pasteurize or sterilize your substrate if it is nutritious, so if you use coir you don't. Still, soaking a coir block with boiling water is much better since it helps a lot with water absorption and expansion of the block.
This makes sense, I just dont understand how coir/verm mix will be "nutrious" or if it just give the mycelium a growing medium..
I've heard others post about partial pasteurization or about "no pasteurization" and it just hurts my OCD paranoia about contams. Any posts or links that can confirm this?
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sakalonys
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: NecroMyce]
#26959537 - 09/28/20 10:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Personally, i prefer to sterilze grain based substrates like rye. doing that, i have much less problems with contamination
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sakalonys
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: sakalonys]
#26959540 - 09/28/20 10:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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on the other hand sterilization,will even kill beneficial bacteria. maybe i dont pateurize right...
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NecroMyce
Mostly Ghostly



Registered: 05/12/13
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: sakalonys]
#26959619 - 09/29/20 12:41 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sakalonys said: Personally, i prefer to sterilze grain based substrates like rye. doing that, i have much less problems with contamination
Well with the bucket tek you its basically like pasteurizing since you boil water pour in the verm/coir and try to keep temps at 170F for 2-4 hrs ish, usually a bucket or a cooler/tub with a vented lid it will hold temp for a long time., but are you saying you get your field capacity for your substrate and the properly pasteurize it in a PC/huge pot?
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NecroMyce
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: NecroMyce]
#26969019 - 10/04/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Can anyone else chime in?
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Gan
Wielder of Narya



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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: NecroMyce]
#26969041 - 10/04/20 12:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm not going to follow the link, but what kind of sub are you wanting to work with? Any kind of nutritious substrate and/or casing (straw, manure, jiffy mix, etc.) would ideally be pasteurized. Sterilization of a substrate like that can actually have to potential to contam easier than if no pasteurization was done at all.
If growing cubes, a coir based substrate is all that is needed. You can also add gypsum or verm if you want or need. Due to the lack of nutrition, no pasteurization or sterilization is needed for a coir sub. The bucket tek using boiling water could be considered partial sterilization since it's sitting at 170+ F for a few hours.
If doing cubes, go for a coir sub. Weigh out your coir, add some hot water, let it expand then adjust the moisture content from there until field capacity is achieved.
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NecroMyce
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: Gan]
#26969070 - 10/04/20 12:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gan said: I'm not going to follow the link, but what kind of sub are you wanting to work with? Any kind of nutritious substrate and/or casing (straw, manure, jiffy mix, etc.) would ideally be pasteurized. Sterilization of a substrate like that can actually have to potential to contam easier than if no pasteurization was done at all.
If growing cubes, a coir based substrate is all that is needed. You can also add gypsum or verm if you want or need. Due to the lack of nutrition, no pasteurization or sterilization is needed for a coir sub. The bucket tek using boiling water could be considered partial sterilization since it's sitting at 170+ F for a few hours.
If doing cubes, go for a coir sub. Weigh out your coir, add some hot water, let it expand then adjust the moisture content from there until field capacity is achieved.
So basically your bucket tek is all that’s needed for a coir,Vern, gypsum substrate for cubes. Just follow the damn bucket tek because if I properly pasteurize a coir,Verm,Gyp substrate I am more likely to have a contam?
Also when doing a casing layer of peat moss, lime, verm,... the peat moss is considered nutritious so it does indeed need a proper pasteurization?
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Gan
Wielder of Narya



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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: NecroMyce]
#26969266 - 10/04/20 02:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
CaspuuuR said:
Quote:
Gan said: I'm not going to follow the link, but what kind of sub are you wanting to work with? Any kind of nutritious substrate and/or casing (straw, manure, jiffy mix, etc.) would ideally be pasteurized. Sterilization of a substrate like that can actually have to potential to contam easier than if no pasteurization was done at all.
If growing cubes, a coir based substrate is all that is needed. You can also add gypsum or verm if you want or need. Due to the lack of nutrition, no pasteurization or sterilization is needed for a coir sub. The bucket tek using boiling water could be considered partial sterilization since it's sitting at 170+ F for a few hours.
If doing cubes, go for a coir sub. Weigh out your coir, add some hot water, let it expand then adjust the moisture content from there until field capacity is achieved.
So basically your bucket tek is all that’s needed for a coir,Vern, gypsum substrate for cubes. Just follow the damn bucket tek because if I properly pasteurize a coir,Verm,Gyp substrate I am more likely to have a contam?
Also when doing a casing layer of peat moss, lime, verm,... the peat moss is considered nutritious so it does indeed need a proper pasteurization?
So, first off, yeah a coir, verm, gypsum (abbreviated cvg sometimes) substrate is fine for cubes. Actually straight coir is fine, or just coir and verm. Normally I only throw gypsum in if I have some. I notice no difference in my grows. If I over hydrate the coir I'll throw some verm in to get it to field capacity. But if I perfectly hydrate it, I'll just rock straight coir.
If you pasteurize a cvg (or coir only, or coir and verm) substrate, it's fine. It wont chance the probability of it getting contaminated. Same if you sterilize it. Because intents and purposes it's non-nutricious. However, if you sterilize a nutritious substrate (like a peat moss substrate/casing or jiffy mix-containing casing) then it will kill both the harmful and beneficial microbes, and make it very likely to contaminate.
As for a peat moss casing, yes you will have the most consistent success if you pasteurize it.
I hope that makes sense. Essentially: Substrate with significant nutrients = pasteurize if used in open air. Dont sterilize or partially sterilize (hence why you cang really bucket tek a true casing layer).
Substrate with little to no nutrients = pasteurize, sterilize, or do neither. It more than likely wont be the step that makes or breaks your grow.
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NecroMyce
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: Gan]
#26969277 - 10/04/20 02:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thank you so much for the info. I’ve been reading and I believe when you hydrate your coir block, do so with water at 170F for 2-4hrs, then get field capacity and use it before the water creates mold or it sits to long. Basically once it cools, throw it in a tub and spawn that shit!
But for your casing layer, always pasteurize. I have used these teks
For substrate: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595#11916595
For casing layer: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18880716#18880716
For pasteurizing: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17246844#17246844
Sorry if those are out of order.
But i used these methods and I feel like your CVG=bucket tek(stop overthinking it, just get proper field capacity and use right away)
And for any casing layer, use the pasteurizing tek.
Also, if anyone reading this post, needs to understand the difference between, “sterilizing” and “pasteurizing”
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Gan
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: NecroMyce]
#26969347 - 10/04/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Also, it's good practice to use your coir substrate right away if you can, but sometime life gets in the way and mine sits in the bucket for a few days to a week with no issues. It's very contam resistant. It'll be fine.
However, I have no idea if that's true with casings or other nutrient rich substrates, as I've always used then immediately after they cool from the pasteurization cycle.
My steps for making my coir substrate:
- Weigh my coir brick to make sure it's ~650g
- Measure out around 3.5 L of water (if I'm using verm... if it's straight coir I use less) and bring it to a boil then dump it in with thr coir
- come back an hour later and stir it quickly to break up clumps
- once I have time and it's cooled off, I check for field capacity. I add verm if it is too wet. If it's too dry, I just add a bit of room temp tap water until it's where I like.
Depending on the brand of coir and what kind of environment you live in, your recipe will be different. Just write it down and you'll have it honed in after 2 or 3 preps.
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The Mycologist
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: Gan]
#26969356 - 10/04/20 03:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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There are plenty of nutrients in the grain. Coir and verm with no additives is basically contam invincible.
If you contam with coir and verm substrate then it was your spawn.
I just case with coir as well. Most psilocybes dont need a casing layer.
And fyi for anyone. Spawn is the rye that is 100% colonized by mycelium.
-------------------- "That you are here—that life exists, and identity; That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.” ― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass

Edited by The Mycologist (10/04/20 03:57 PM)
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NecroMyce
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: The Mycologist]
#26969418 - 10/04/20 04:31 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Mycologist said:

There are plenty of nutrients in the grain. Coir and verm with no additives is basically contam invincible.
If you contam with coir and verm substrate then it was your spawn.
I just case with coir as well. Most psilocybes dont need a casing layer.
And fyi for anyone. Spawn is the rye that is 100% colonized by mycelium.
I know it’s important to case with PE and I believe Albino PE, but I think it’s best to always case. IME, it has provided nice pinsets. If you look in my signature, my PE grow was cased and pinned really nicely. Where as my chitwan was NOT cased and my pinset was garbage. I know this can also be because of FAE, light exposure, proper tek, genetic, and mainly the complete variability you get from spawning from syringe spore inoculation.
Basically in my theory it is always good to case if you have time because It provides a incubation layer for pinset production. And The pins are given a stronger humidity level due to the casing layer, so you’ve got your plastic liner on the bottom and your casing on top, and walls of tub on the sides all the way around, like a nice Humid sandwich. If that makes sense. I haven’t researched it in a while, But I think it’s always beneficial but also needed for some strains and not for Others
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eatyualive
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: NecroMyce]
#26969459 - 10/04/20 04:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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For coir you dont even need to pasteurize or sterilize it. Just add hot water to expand and spawn in 30 minutes.
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NecroMyce
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Re: Sterilization vs Pasteurization for Substrate [Re: eatyualive]
#26969854 - 10/04/20 09:18 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said: For coir you dont even need to pasteurize or sterilize it. Just add hot water to expand and spawn in 30 minutes.
You dont think 30 mins is too short of a time? Wouldn't it be too hot?
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