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gizmodo
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Extract powder from liquid extracts
#26969631 - 10/04/20 06:27 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Does anyone know how people get this powder out of their extracts? I don't personally know anyone producing such a thing but I see some guys out there offering powdered capsules made from liquid extracts. Is there any way to actually do this at home or is it practically impossible to reliably do it by oneself without working at it for an unreasonable amount of time.
-------------------- One must be mindful to maintain their balance on the slippery earth. Bod's Comprehensive Agar Resource Gizmodo's Market Stall Say No To Grow Kits
Edited by gizmodo (10/04/20 06:28 PM)
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Harry Manbach
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: gizmodo]
#26969784 - 10/04/20 08:12 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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It seems a bit redundant to me ...there's powdered supplements (whether that be from fruiting body or myceliated grains) and then there's liquid extracts (water decoction or alcohol tincture). Is there an advantage or purpose to process the "liquid extract" to powder that I'm unaware of? Vs just taking the "liquid extract"?
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gizmodo
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: Harry Manbach]
#26969848 - 10/04/20 09:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well from what I understand the benefit of turning a liquid extract into powder is that all of the garbage is removed essentially. When you turn the liquid into a powder you're left with nothing but the goods, in the liquid you may have less of what would be in just powder if that makes sense.
-------------------- One must be mindful to maintain their balance on the slippery earth. Bod's Comprehensive Agar Resource Gizmodo's Market Stall Say No To Grow Kits
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Forrester
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: gizmodo]
#26970092 - 10/05/20 03:02 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't see the point either. Are you worried about consuming 1-5ml of alcohol or something, along with some water?
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Harry Manbach
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: Forrester]
#26970234 - 10/05/20 07:59 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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...maybe you're referring to something we're unaware of? The only thing you're eliminating by reducing liquid extract to powder is the alcohol/water carrying it! Maybe I'm not understanding what you're considering " garbage"?
Are you referring to a specific "liquid extract" ..or the typical water/alcohol tincture?
Edited by Harry Manbach (10/05/20 08:01 AM)
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gizmodo
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: Harry Manbach]
#26970359 - 10/05/20 10:12 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I get along just fine with a dual extract, it's been my go to ever since I learned how to do it here on the boards. It's more the market condition, lots of people seem to be swaying toward being more interested in a powdered extract than anything else. Now competing companies are putting out marketing saying that dual extracts are junk, maybe they are maybe they aren't but they work for me. They argue that the dual extracts have very little of the good stuff by example that if you let it evaporate there's very little physically visible remnants left behind which they then say proves that its junk. From what I understand of what they're putting out there at least, I apologize for any confusion.
Edited by gizmodo (10/05/20 10:14 AM)
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Harry Manbach
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: gizmodo]
#26970509 - 10/05/20 12:12 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Can you refer maybe a specific product that I can reference to see what you're talking about? All I've come to know from powdered supplements is fruit body, or myceliated grain pulverized to a powder.
As far as your question...I'm pretty sure you already answered it. Does what you have work for you? Or are you letting company's competing marketing departments do their job in your brain? The information is out there as far as the dual tincture goes(not saying information doesn't change!) But I am reminding you that,as far as you say, you already have a good product that you notice benefits from. If you want more,up your dose! Or spend the money on their products and compare the two?
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DutchMyco
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: Harry Manbach] 1
#26970780 - 10/05/20 03:07 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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The powders are made by spray drying. Usually only from water extracts from what I've seen. Could be done at home I think, but the alcohol content of double extracts makes it dangerous, plus the alcohol dissolved contents might produce a sticky product. Besides that it's just spraying a fine mist of concentrated extract in a tank where the droplets dry out before they touch anything, and where hot air is blown trough to dry the droplets and take away the moisture. Powder should drop to the floor or possible filtered from the air.
You could measure dry out a known amount of extract to know your % solids. The fruiting body powderextracts all come from China or other Asian countries, makes more commercial sense.
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gizmodo
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: DutchMyco]
#26970993 - 10/05/20 05:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DutchMyco said: The powders are made by spray drying. Usually only from water extracts from what I've seen. Could be done at home I think, but the alcohol content of double extracts makes it dangerous, plus the alcohol dissolved contents might produce a sticky product. Besides that it's just spraying a fine mist of concentrated extract in a tank where the droplets dry out before they touch anything, and where hot air is blown trough to dry the droplets and take away the moisture. Powder should drop to the floor or possible filtered from the air.
You could measure dry out a known amount of extract to know your % solids. The fruiting body powderextracts all come from China or other Asian countries, makes more commercial sense.
Thank you kindly.
-------------------- One must be mindful to maintain their balance on the slippery earth. Bod's Comprehensive Agar Resource Gizmodo's Market Stall Say No To Grow Kits
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Harry Manbach
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: DutchMyco]
#26971201 - 10/05/20 07:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DutchMyco said: The powders are made by spray drying. Usually only from water extracts from what I've seen. Could be done at home I think, but the alcohol content of double extracts makes it dangerous, plus the alcohol dissolved contents might produce a sticky product. Besides that it's just spraying a fine mist of concentrated extract in a tank where the droplets dry out before they touch anything, and where hot air is blown trough to dry the droplets and take away the moisture. Powder should drop to the floor or possible filtered from the air.
You could measure dry out a known amount of extract to know your % solids. The fruiting body powderextracts all come from China or other Asian countries, makes more commercial sense.
Fair enough! Learn something new every day! As cool as the process sounds, is there an advantage to only concentrating the water soluble compounds? As you said this doesn't seem viable on a profitable,commercial scale so I'm trying to understand why one would go through such great lengths?
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Forrester
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: Harry Manbach]
#26971517 - 10/06/20 02:38 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Harry Manbach said: As you said this doesn't seem viable on a profitable,commercial scale so I'm trying to understand why one would go through such great lengths?
It is for china, and that's why it's only done with water extracts - cheap, and they don't have to ship tea (too heavy). It's just a money saver. Powdered extracts done this way won't have any of the good stuff alcohol extracts will get.
It's fine for some plant supplements though, but with mushrooms even powdered mycelium is better IMO.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Icyurmt
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: Forrester]
#26971891 - 10/06/20 10:44 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forrester said:
Quote:
Harry Manbach said: As you said this doesn't seem viable on a profitable,commercial scale so I'm trying to understand why one would go through such great lengths?
It is for china, and that's why it's only done with water extracts - cheap, and they don't have to ship tea (too heavy). It's just a money saver. Powdered extracts done this way won't have any of the good stuff alcohol extracts will get.
It's fine for some plant supplements though, but with mushrooms even powdered mycelium is better IMO.
Not all mushrooms need to be dual extracted and in some cases it’s actually detrimental because polysaccharides like beta-glucans can be damaged by and precipitate out in alcohol. Chaga has triterpenes and sterols like inotodiol, trametenolic acid and betulinic acid; Reishi, has triterpenes like ganoderic acids, many of which are non-water soluble, and for that reason both make great candidates for dual extraction. Cordyceps, lions mane, turkey tail, shiitake and maitake, on the other hand do not have any primary non-water soluble compounds of note (at least that I’m aware of?) and may actually see a reduction of the levels of beneficial beta-glucans in the final product with the addition of alcohol. Simply powdering the mushrooms and putting them in the capsules does not breakdown the cell walls or chitin, which is why a hot water extraction is needed to extract and make bio available the polysaccharides. It’s my understanding that spray drying is one of the better ways used to preserve these extracted polysaccharides.
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Harry Manbach
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: Icyurmt]
#26971964 - 10/06/20 11:19 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icyurmt said:
Quote:
Forrester said:
Quote:
Harry Manbach said: As you said this doesn't seem viable on a profitable,commercial scale so I'm trying to understand why one would go through such great lengths?
It is for china, and that's why it's only done with water extracts - cheap, and they don't have to ship tea (too heavy). It's just a money saver. Powdered extracts done this way won't have any of the good stuff alcohol extracts will get.
It's fine for some plant supplements though, but with mushrooms even powdered mycelium is better IMO.
Not all mushrooms need to be dual extracted and in some cases it’s actually detrimental because polysaccharides like beta-glucans can be damaged by and precipitate out in alcohol. Chaga has triterpenes and sterols like inotodiol, trametenolic acid and betulinic acid; Reishi, has triterpenes like ganoderic acids, many of which are non-water soluble, and for that reason both make great candidates for dual extraction. Cordyceps, lions mane, turkey tail, shiitake and maitake, on the other hand do not have any primary non-water soluble compounds of note (at least that I’m aware of?) and may actually see a reduction of the levels of beneficial beta-glucans in the final product with the addition of alcohol. Simply powdering the mushrooms and putting them in the capsules does not breakdown the cell walls or chitin, which is why a hot water extraction is needed to extract and make bio available the polysaccharides. It’s my understanding that spray drying is one of the better ways used to preserve these extracted polysaccharides.
Nowww I'm getting somewhere! Lol. This makes a lot more sense as to the" why" Do you have any reading available on this subject? I only have experience with Turkey tail and reishi tincture. And the only information I can seem to find on this seems to be conflicting reports from competing supplement companies...similar to what the op stated, and very similar to the information you just posted. Is there any actual studies published on this?
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seagu

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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: Harry Manbach]
#26972004 - 10/06/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I thought Lion's Mane needed a dual extract to get a lot of the certain good stuff most want??
-------------------- Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.
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Harry Manbach
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: seagu]
#26972070 - 10/06/20 12:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
seagu said: I thought Lion's Mane needed a dual extract to get a lot of the certain good stuff most want??
I was under that impression for Turkey tail as well!
I'm not saying his information came from https://www.realmushrooms.com/is-dual-extraction-necessary-for-mushrooms/ however there's striking similarities between his post and the section in that link "what are these non water soluble compounds". Nor am I saying the information is incorrect,because I don't know either way. However, I noticed they have these compelling articles and products for sale. I'd prefer to be educated by a non biased study rather than fall for the ole "Stamets" trick again!
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Icyurmt
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: Harry Manbach]
#26972195 - 10/06/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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These are some links, I know there are a more but these are the ones that I have either saved or quickly find.. To be honest I don’t know what the correct scientific answer to any of this is, like most non-scientists I parrot information provided to me by those that know far more about the subject then myself and do my best to try to understand it. That being said, if the mushroom in question has medicinal properties that are attributed to its polysaccharides, I don’t see a purpose to a duel extraction other than its use as a preservative. It’s my understanding that that is one of the reasons spray drying is used.
Chitin, Chitosan and Glucan, Properties and Applications
β-Glucans: An Important Bioactive Molecule of Edible and Medicinal Mushrooms
https://namyco.org/scientific_research_and_medici.php
Pressurized hot water extraction of bioactives
Preparation, characterization, and biological properties of β-glucans
Application of Different Drying Methods on β-Glucan Isolated from Spent Brewer’s Yeast Using Alkaline Procedure
Effect of drying temperature on quality of β-glucan in white oat grains
“These data provide evidence that extraction methods may affect the biological activity of mushroom products; thus, further studies are warranted”
DOSAGE AND FORM OF HERBS Decoctions, Dried Decoctions, Powders, Pills, Etc.
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Harry Manbach
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: Icyurmt]
#26972267 - 10/06/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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..it would seem I have some reading to do before my next round of tinctures!! I thank you!!
..upon review,after i could get this tablet to load a couple of those....these are blanketed across the board, not specific studies to definitively say, per species that a water extraction is superior!?
This still seems like marketing ploys to sway you from one companies extraction method to the next. Doesn't really seem there's enough evidence on the beneficial compounds of each species, let alone the best/most efficient way of extracting them
Edited by Harry Manbach (10/06/20 02:23 PM)
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Forrester
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: Icyurmt] 1
#26972366 - 10/06/20 03:19 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icyurmt said: Not all mushrooms need to be dual extracted and in some cases it’s actually detrimental because polysaccharides like beta-glucans can be damaged by and precipitate out in alcohol
Of course they can precipitate out but I've never heard of alcohol damaging any mushroom components... I'd be interested to know where you read that.
Quote:
Icyurmt said: Cordyceps, lions mane, turkey tail, shiitake and maitake, on the other hand do not have any primary non-water soluble compounds of note (at least that I’m aware of?) and may actually see a reduction of the levels of beneficial beta-glucans in the final product with the addition of alcohol.
I'd really like a source on this one as well, I'm pretty disinclined to believe T. versicolor, just to take an example, doesn't have ANY non water-soluble compounds of value. I'm pretty sure I have sources to the contrary if they weren't packed in storage...
Quote:
Icyurmt said: Simply powdering the mushrooms and putting them in the capsules does not breakdown the cell walls or chitin, which is why a hot water extraction is needed to extract and make bio available the polysaccharides.
This is simply not true and has been debunked. By us here on multiple threads in this forum, as well as John Holiday of Aloha medicinals and others.
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gizmodo
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: Forrester]
#26973645 - 10/07/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icyurmt said: Simply powdering the mushrooms and putting them in the capsules does not breakdown the cell walls or chitin, which is why a hot water extraction is needed to extract and make bio available the polysaccharides.
This is simply not true and has been debunked. By us here on multiple threads in this forum, as well as John Holiday of Aloha medicinals and others.
See this kind of thing is the problem I've noticed on subreddits and places people go to for information. It's a problem everywhere with marketing but they've really gotten these guys by the gonads with some of this misleading stuff. Poor folks are driven into buying the most expensive products out there thinking its the only thing that works, I'm not so sure that's the case 100% of the time. Happens everywhere with everything sold like that though.
-------------------- One must be mindful to maintain their balance on the slippery earth. Bod's Comprehensive Agar Resource Gizmodo's Market Stall Say No To Grow Kits
Edited by gizmodo (10/07/20 11:22 AM)
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Forrester
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Re: Extract powder from liquid extracts [Re: gizmodo] 1
#26973889 - 10/07/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
gizmodo said: See this kind of thing is the problem I've noticed on subreddits and places people go to for information. It's a problem everywhere with marketing but they've really gotten these guys by the gonads with some of this misleading stuff. Poor folks are driven into buying the most expensive products out there thinking its the only thing that works, I'm not so sure that's the case 100% of the time. Happens everywhere with everything sold like that though.
Very true! And no it's not just reddit, I've heard this repeated over and over again since I joined the shroomery.
I've always found it curious that people especially on the shroomery believe the cell walls being made of chitin somehow stops our bodies from getting to the medicinals inside.
If that were true, we would feel nothing when we ate a handful of cubensis (and those aren't even powdered usually).
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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