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Michael.o.logist
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/18
Posts: 1
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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How long will sterilized grain last?
#25718436 - 01/02/19 10:47 AM (5 years, 1 month ago) |
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I sterilized rye grain in my PC a couple days ago and won't be able to noc in my SAB for another 24-48 hrs. Will the moisture content be okay until then or should I make some fresh?
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teladi
FUNKSOULBROTHER


Registered: 06/27/17
Posts: 1,189
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 6 months, 8 days
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Yeh, you'll be fine.
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Geinstein
Shroomery addict



Registered: 01/25/18
Posts: 1,784
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Re: How long will sterilized grain last? [Re: teladi]
#25718446 - 01/02/19 10:52 AM (5 years, 1 month ago) |
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You'll be fine dude
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Nothing breads nothing
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bloozmahn
Dude

Registered: 05/22/18
Posts: 147
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: How long will sterilized grain last? [Re: Geinstein]
#25718585 - 01/02/19 12:01 PM (5 years, 1 month ago) |
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i've gone weeks.. it's why you sterilize in the first place.
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Geinstein
Shroomery addict



Registered: 01/25/18
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Re: How long will sterilized grain last? [Re: bloozmahn]
#25720113 - 01/03/19 12:23 AM (5 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeeeee if you know anything about the sterilizing of grains for mushrooms You'd know to not push it too long
The grains aren't 100% sterilized even with 3 hours with 15 PSI
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Nothing breads nothing
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NecroMyce
Mostly Ghostly



Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 747
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Re: How long will sterilized grain last? [Re: Geinstein]
#26969073 - 10/04/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have a couple jars I didn’t have enough spores for. They have been sitting 1-2 weeks. I’m going to knock them up with the new spores I just got and see what happens. I believe they will be fine up to 2-3 months, technically If you think about it. As long as you “properly sterilize” your grains, if you were to inoculate them within a couple days and then the spores take 3-8weeks to become fully colonized. They are still sitting for so long. So whether you have spores inoculated or not. 2-4 weeks of sterilized grain sitting should be fine. I just wouldn’t go over 6months. Even on some venders pages that sell pre sterilized grain bags, they say this can sit on a shelf at room temp for weeks before use.
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One of Us
Stranger



Registered: 03/12/12
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Re: How long will sterilized grain last? [Re: NecroMyce]
#26969175 - 10/04/20 02:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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This topic comes up a lot. To the OP, 24-48hrs is no big deal. You'll be fine.
To people who believe grain can be usable for months after sterilizing,that's not exactly true. We don't truly sterilize grain. The air pockets make proper sterilization tricky..
What we do is kill most potential contaminants, but not all of them. The pc cycle opens a window of opportunity for our mycelium to get the upper hand, which is good enough for our purposes.
If you find that hard to believe (like I did when I first heard), give This thread a read through. Tons of good info there, and while there are some nay sayers in the beginning of the thread, none of them are able to prove otherwise, dispite a few attempts. And plenty of TCs offer great info.
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NecroMyce
Mostly Ghostly



Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 747
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Re: How long will sterilized grain last? [Re: One of Us]
#26969215 - 10/04/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
One of Us said: This topic comes up a lot. To the OP, 24-48hrs is no big deal. You'll be fine.
To people who believe grain can be usable for months after sterilizing,that's not exactly true. We don't truly sterilize grain. The air pockets make proper sterilization tricky..
What we do is kill most potential contaminants, but not all of them. The pc cycle opens a window of opportunity for our mycelium to get the upper hand, which is good enough for our purposes.
If you find that hard to believe (like I did when I first heard), give This thread a read through. Tons of good info there, and while there are some nay sayers in the beginning of the thread, none of them are able to prove otherwise, dispite a few attempts. And plenty of TCs offer great info.
So would you suggest “sterilized” grain that has sat for 1-2 weeks would be okay generally? And if possible could we re sterilize in the PC a second time?
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One of Us
Stranger



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Re: How long will sterilized grain last? [Re: NecroMyce]
#26969259 - 10/04/20 02:41 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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One week would probably ok, two weeks is definitely pushing it.
You can refrigerate "sterilized" jars and it will improve your odds of success, or like you mentioned you can definitely pc them again when you are ready to inoculate. I believe many commercial edible growers use a process where they do 2 "sterilization" cycles before inoculation.
Something else to keep in mind is that jarred or bagged grain can dry out again with enough time
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NecroMyce
Mostly Ghostly



Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 747
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Re: How long will sterilized grain last? [Re: One of Us]
#26969299 - 10/04/20 03:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
One of Us said: One week would probably ok, two weeks is definitely pushing it.
You can refrigerate "sterilized" jars and it will improve your odds of success, or like you mentioned you can definitely pc them again when you are ready to inoculate. I believe many commercial edible growers use a process where they do 2 "sterilization" cycles before inoculation.
Something else to keep in mind is that jarred or bagged grain can dry out again with enough time
thank you. I guess I will try it out since my jars are EXACTLY 7 days from When they were PC’d. And I do 15psi for 2 hrs. And sitting at 72-75 room temp.
I’m going to experiment because I only have like 10jars to inoculate and I ironically have half the jars with foil still on them and the other half with no foil. So maybe the foil holds moisture content in and keeps them from drying out, and the other jars may dried up a little. I just checked on them and still are visible water droplets in them, just a little Tho, nothing that runs or is crazy. Hopefully this hasn’t promoted endospores to Germinate.
But after reading that post that was linked, they say, “pc only gives you a upper hand to get cube spores to germinate and once fully colonized the mycelium is strong enough to fend off other contaminants for the most part”
I think it’s really a gamble past a week, and it also depends on the conditions the jars were sitting in. From what I read, to inoculate 10 jars with what is maybe $5 worth of spores is worth it unless you have time to redo the PC process and wait another 1-3 days after they cool. (Which would be your best bet) but I’m lazy rn and I’d like to know if I can wait a week with my setup and conditions.(obviously everyone process and situation is different so there is so many varying outcomes.)
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One of Us
Stranger



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Re: How long will sterilized grain last? [Re: NecroMyce]
#26969329 - 10/04/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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That sounds like a good experiment. Like mentioned in that thread, we definitely know we only have a limited window of opportunity, but how long this window is open is not as known. Most people don't like to push their luck, so it is as Hunter S Thompson said:
"The Edge... There is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
But this open window time can change with many different variables, including individuals' setups and conditions, as you mentioned, but more importantly, I think this time frame will change from bag to bag of grains. One bag of unprocessed, dry grains may have significantly more endospores than another, even within the same brand. So anything you learn from experimentation, may not translate to your next bag of grain. Now, I do not know this with certainty, but its worth mentioning.
That said, I think that going spore to grain is the real gamble you are taking
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maxmush
Always learning...

Registered: 06/13/20
Posts: 440
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Re: How long will sterilized grain last? [Re: One of Us]
#26969338 - 10/04/20 03:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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2-4 days is fine. After about 2 weeks they will start dropping off like flies. You can sterilize and refrigerate to extend shelf life. I wouldnt push it past a month however.
-------------------- Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: How long will sterilized grain last? [Re: maxmush]
#26969354 - 10/04/20 03:53 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Probably been a month at least on these. I'll get to them eventually.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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AtmozFear
just a shade of myself


Registered: 01/25/19
Posts: 1,032
Last seen: 1 day, 17 hours
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Re: How long will sterilized grain last? [Re: One of Us]
#26969391 - 10/04/20 04:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
One of Us said: Most people don't like to push their luck, so it is as Hunter S Thompson said:
"The Edge... There is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
That's a great quote! eerie.
Edited by AtmozFear (10/04/20 04:14 PM)
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NecroMyce
Mostly Ghostly



Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 747
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Re: How long will sterilized grain last? [Re: One of Us]
#26969442 - 10/04/20 04:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
One of Us said: That sounds like a good experiment. Like mentioned in that thread, we definitely know we only have a limited window of opportunity, but how long this window is open is not as known. Most people don't like to push their luck, so it is as Hunter S Thompson said:
"The Edge... There is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."
But this open window time can change with many different variables, including individuals' setups and conditions, as you mentioned, but more importantly, I think this time frame will change from bag to bag of grains. One bag of unprocessed, dry grains may have significantly more endospores than another, even within the same brand. So anything you learn from experimentation, may not translate to your next bag of grain. Now, I do not know this with certainty, but its worth mentioning.
That said, I think that going spore to grain is the real gamble you are taking
Understood man! Thanks everyone that chimed in, def helped me and OP. Didn’t mean to hyjack this post but it was obviously very informative and productive.
BOTTOM LINE: your best rule of thumb is anything inoculated ASAP within a day or two After PCing is the best way to do it! But if you have to Wait a week you’ll probably be fine if your bags/jars are in proper sterile conditions and your filter patch or vent hole is covered to reduce losing moisture contenting inside your grains. And if you wait any longer than a week to inoculate, your odds are going lower and lower each day you wait, but if you decide to inoculate after 1 week, it’s possible but it’s a larger gamble. None the less, If you wait a month or anything longer than 1-2 weeks, you can also Re-Sterilize as well and you’ll be fine to inoculate once the bags/jars cool.
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