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InvisibleImmy
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Registered: 07/18/18
Posts: 11
Censor: job title. The new sweat shops?
    #26967558 - 10/03/20 12:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I’ve been seeing lawsuits and pleas from the groups of people whose crappy job is to view and read the most vile things humans put on social media platforms and the internet. These people are reporting the development of genuine PTSD and consequent suicidality and physical stress-related disease/illness.

So a pro-censorship position requires that someone else sacrifice their mental, emotional, and physical wellbeing in order to prevent the potential that the mental, emotional, and physical wellbeing of another be disturbed. And the Censor should repetitively shield them from disturbance, necessarily as a full time occupation, and since as a society “we” don’t believe in the ethics of slavery, they should receive a minimum wage or just a wage that their region considers adequate for base survival.

Whose rightful job is it to prevent potential disturbance to the individual? Just anyone who needs to eat and pay for shelter? The same people we’re fine with living on garbage heaps to provide manufacturers with rare earth metals so I can ask this question to random strangers? Whose rightful job is it to make sure I’m super comfortable and insulated from disturbing external mental projections?

If you are pro-censorship, are you not a mental slaver? What’s the difference?


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Immy]
    #26967575 - 10/03/20 12:52 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'm pro censorship (altho I prefer the term moderation) in the sense of AI doing the censoring with human review only needed given difficult to decipher meaning. This limits human exposure and also makes large scale moderation possible. I think that policing of some sort is required anywhere that large amounts of humans congregate based on the history of what happens when there is no policing.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleImmy
Female
Registered: 07/18/18
Posts: 11
Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Kickle]
    #26967599 - 10/03/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting solution. It’s obviously not being employed, but hypothetically, if it were, how limited would human exposure then be? I don’t know how much humans would be self-exposing in order to develop this censoring AI.

I think moderating and censorship are not the same thing at all. Functionally people seem to have conflated the two, which is just euphamising censorship probably to make it seem less of a threat than it really is. Moderating is a a facilitating of communication such that the focus or intent is not lost to distractions borne of irritation or disagreement. Formal debates have moderators for this purpose. It is not moderating to outright ban the discussion of certain topics or words or images that illustrate the central point being expressed. That’s censorship.


Edited by Immy (10/03/20 01:11 PM)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Immy]
    #26967681 - 10/03/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Well I view moderation differently. I view moderation as enforcement and facilitation of the rules. And in practice this means that those things which are against the rules are censored.

I may not agree with all of the rules that different companies impose, but IMO it's completely within their right to have rules that need to be respected in order to utilize their services. I have a much bigger issue with needing to give up my personal information to use their service than I do not expressing hate speech. One is within anyone's control to moderate, the other requires a high level of technical knowledge to limit and exert control. But maybe I'm just weird this way. I think one is an insidious business practice and the other is playing nice socially.

FWIW major tech companies have for a while now employed AI to do their censorship. As far as I know Google was the first and started using it for Youtube in 2016. Which makes sense seeing as 300+ hours of video are uploaded every single minute. That would be 18,000 employees reviewing one video every minute, 24 hours a day. The sheer scale of that is inconceivable without technological help. Facebook, Twitter and Amazon all use AI algorithms as well.


From Google's website on Human Review:

Quote:

How does the appeals process work?
When you request a human review (e.g. appeal the current monetization status), the video gets looked at by an expert who spends time watching the video and reviewing the video’s content, title, and metadata against our advertiser-friendly content guidelines.

Keep in mind that the video's icon status may change even after your video is submitted for review. Our systems continue to run their scans until the review has been completed. You'll know when a final decision has been made on your review when you get an email update.

Learn more about monetization icon changes between green and yellow.

How long does review take?
We know these reviews are important to you and your revenue. We strive to review as many videos as humanly possible, and as quickly and accurately as possible. Because we’re a platform that has hundreds of millions of videos, we have to set guidelines around which videos get reviewed first. This is to make sure we review those videos that are getting substantial traffic.




--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Immy]
    #26967692 - 10/03/20 01:59 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I have a friend who likes looking up that stuff on Facebook. He knows the keywords and how to order the list to get things that have been posted in the last few minutes to hours. AI has taken a lot off the table and the manpower needed to censor violence has diminished considerably. But of course, it's still necessary to have humans get what AI misses.

I don't consider menial labor to be slavery, though there could be a larger conversation about the accumulation of wealth and what responsibilities we have for each other when it comes to basic survival issues. A fiscal conservative should find it disturbing that minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation. 40% of the workforce today makes less than 1970's minimum wage when adjusted for inflation.

The hippies to some degree have made their way into government and it's still business as usual.

I do think those who censor violent content should have free counseling and get all the support they need. Do you see a difference between the censor and a fast food worker? What's the difference?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleImmy
Female
Registered: 07/18/18
Posts: 11
Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Rahz]
    #26967810 - 10/03/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I’m not thinking of this from the perspective of a reasonable capitalistic corporation strategy, and I do know that corporations use algorithms to censor content. My questions are on a personal ethics level where an individual says that something should be censored so they don’t have to see it, or more on the virtue signalling spectrum that nobody should see it, because it disturbs them.

So if you think someone else should see it and shield you from it, are you not just offloading your own personal responsibility onto others (who are not entirely free in their minds to chooose the job, but do it to survive, not unlike coal miners or fast food workers on the whole- super generalized and no disrespect to those who do this work)?


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Immy]
    #26967850 - 10/03/20 04:11 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Society is probably better off without the kids being exposed to seeing brains splatter on Facebook. And if it takes adult censors to manage that, so be it. And if it takes class action lawsuits to manage the health of the adults so be it. If it was a $50 an hour job it wouldn't make it any more sane, but with less wealth disparity people can be more selective in the jobs they choose which would drive up the wage for such unpleasant work and make it a more viable option for those who are less sensitive to such things.

Would you prefer no censorship?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Immy]
    #26967896 - 10/03/20 04:38 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Imagine how it would be to show the clip to children and deal with it accordingly.

use ratings, call a spade a spade, would consider exposing kids to it?

the labelling can be graded for 'maturity'

It's a huge area and not a simple answer especially as it steers society, and we have been watching how that is being done very much recently.

It is getting harder to know what to say to innocents that are exposed before their maturity can cope with everyday crap.

Basically it's a jungle out there.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleImmy
Female
Registered: 07/18/18
Posts: 11
Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26967965 - 10/03/20 05:20 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

As for children, how is curating their worldly experience not the job of parents? This is a different angle again. I am pro parent your children and don’t make that the job of society and especially of government. But that’s besides the point, which is still the sociological/philosophical question whether or not when you ask for censorship, are you not just passing the burden onto others so you don’t have to self-censor (or parent)?

The cry for censorship just seems to me like, “Somebody should stop that! It’s ugly!” While sitting in a lounger eating cheetos. I’m not suggesting that this is a society of self-and-socially-responsible adults; I’m too old to be that naive. Also, I was severely censored while also severely abused in various ways for most of my life, so I’ve lived on both sides of this fence at the same time.

I am absolutely against external and nonconsensual censorship in every form however. I’ve seen and experienced a lot of the stuff that grownups in this society can’t handle even knowing about, which is disheartening honestly. I don’t want people to be traumatized, just adult, which I realize is not going to happen, and societal censorship is both a symptom and a strategy of infantilisation in my opinion.

I just wondered if people who want and support this care at all about the minds and wellbeing of the people they vicariously employ to shield them from discomfort so they can feel clean and virtuous.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Immy]
    #26968063 - 10/03/20 06:34 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Most censorship in this form comes down to money. If an advertiser does not want their content to be associated with X content, then it won't be. Because the advertiser is paying and the content creator is not. That's capitalism at work.

Similarly the government can put regulations in place that hurt a company financially and so a company responds to protect their capital. From the companies side, it isn't about protecting the user at all. The user is the product for these companies. Think about that, any content that brings in a user is akin to free merchandise for the company. Companies have 0 reason to censor anything unless it costs them more than they will make from it. So if you want to place blame, blame the advertisers and politicians who want to portray an appealing image.

Being pro-censorship in this regard does not mean one is screaming for censorship. It means that to deny censorship would be to deny these business models. Which maybe isn't a bad idea given the size of these companies. But it would be terrible for the US economy at a time when it's already rough going.


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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Immy]
    #26968128 - 10/03/20 07:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Immy said:
As for children, how is curating their worldly experience not the job of parents? This is a different angle again. I am pro parent your children and don’t make that the job of society and especially of government. But that’s besides the point, which is still the sociological/philosophical question whether or not when you ask for censorship, are you not just passing the burden onto others so you don’t have to self-censor (or parent)?

The cry for censorship just seems to me like, “Somebody should stop that! It’s ugly!” While sitting in a lounger eating cheetos. I’m not suggesting that this is a society of self-and-socially-responsible adults; I’m too old to be that naive. Also, I was severely censored while also severely abused in various ways for most of my life, so I’ve lived on both sides of this fence at the same time.

I am absolutely against external and nonconsensual censorship in every form however. I’ve seen and experienced a lot of the stuff that grownups in this society can’t handle even knowing about, which is disheartening honestly. I don’t want people to be traumatized, just adult, which I realize is not going to happen, and societal censorship is both a symptom and a strategy of infantilisation in my opinion.

I just wondered if people who want and support this care at all about the minds and wellbeing of the people they vicariously employ to shield them from discomfort so they can feel clean and virtuous.




It's not like you can't find it on the internet if you're looking for it. Companies like Facebook have the right to limit what they allow on their platform. Should the My Little Pony message board be compelled to allow graphic beheading videos? Who says it's healthy to make the whole animal the shady underbelly?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Immy]
    #26968611 - 10/04/20 06:29 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I want to see good age related labelling and restricted access suitable to the offensiveness (anti-social, anti-tolerant, xenophobic, and discriminant against ethnicity, orientation and disability).

hopefully you were wrongly discriminated against and are deserving of compensation.

we should have a Labelling and restriction board as well as an appeals AND RELIEF for wrongly choked voices.

also parents are just grown children, I would not put much more on their plate, it is already too hard to do even half of parenting correctly due to the complexity in the world.

And Cheetos are not real/good food - that crunch is fake empowerment.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Registered: 11/15/09
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Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26968651 - 10/04/20 07:25 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

go to school


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Registered: 11/15/09
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Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26968652 - 10/04/20 07:26 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

good point redgreenvines

about parents grown children

the missing piece in my puzzle of philosophy very needed (mine is 1.st level it's just complete)


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Registered: 11/15/09
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Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26968653 - 10/04/20 07:26 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

my mom is awsome

and so are you


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26968655 - 10/04/20 07:27 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I haven't really gotten around to it but I've meditated 2000 hours

every second was hugely beneficial


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Censor: job title. The new sweat shops? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26968725 - 10/04/20 08:39 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

some zazen every day to keep in touch


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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