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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27094672 - 12/17/20 05:56 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Like getting pissed if you sprain an ankle.  HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN !


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #27094812 - 12/17/20 07:15 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

"how could this happen to me! [+ I always fuck up so much]"

rather than

"ankle sprained, apply cold compress and carry on".


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27095268 - 12/18/20 04:32 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
in this resistance is defensive identification with the injury, or with the potential injury, instead of a more comprehensive awareness of what is happening in the moment.

i.e. cultivating relaxed open awareness is the opposite of defensive identification (resistance).




Sure but very serious pain makes that totally impossible, it will have just about anybody begging on their knees for release without any fancy thoughts about cultivation of awareness.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Grapefruit]
    #27095280 - 12/18/20 04:53 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

that is time for 911, or at least bandages and a splint!

however, clarity and detachment will assure the best outcome, while identification and defensiveness will enable most suffering.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27095435 - 12/18/20 08:12 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

The higher the pain the more encouraged resistance is. 

90 pain x 3 resistance (highly difficult)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #27095576 - 12/18/20 09:59 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

turbocharge the letting go side and you can dial that down a lot


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27095784 - 12/18/20 12:24 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Seems people are wired to sound the alarm at a high degree of pain for obvious reasons.  Yet there is this guy staying zen..



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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #27096190 - 12/18/20 04:58 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
Pain X Resistance = Suffering

so

10 units of Pain X 10 units of resistance = 100 units of suffering

100 units of Pain X 0 units of resistance = 0 units of suffering

1 units of Pain X 10 units of resistance = 10 units of suffering





I wonder what in this equation resistance means.  A lack of acceptance maybe.  Taking the mind away from the painful moment and onto greener pastures.  Creating a stiffer contrast in the pain then..




.  Well a technical answer is resistance means objectifying. And what does that mean? Solidifying a process.
.  Also resistance means defining pain as something that shouldn't be happening to me.
.  Physiologically these reactions result in tension, which hinders the  flow of energy / sensation , from moving, and changing.
.  However without practice experimenting with and applying  vipassana meditation, on a regular basis this theoretical understanding will most likely do little good, in an emergency when pain goes from a level 2 to 500. It is the same as physical training according to Shinzen, if one hasn't done the weight training or jogging one won't win the race, or do well with a heavy back pack.
.    When pain is actually paid close attention to it is discovered that it is not a separate thing, but a process of constantly changing sensations interacting with attention. But of course, the usual reactions of dislike, tension, and objectification, prevent first the making of this discovery and secondly learning to apply it in more and more difficult circumstances.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: laughingdog]
    #27098399 - 12/19/20 08:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Agree with all of it except the meditation bit.  I think it’s a hair overblown.  Just my humble two cents.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #27100142 - 12/20/20 11:39 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Agree with all of it except the meditation bit.  I think it’s a hair overblown.  Just my humble two cents.




If you don't think meditation is effective for some people, as taught by some other people how do you think the guy in the picture you posted managed to do what he did?
Just by learning a few principles?
Think he was just amusing himself with sexual fantasies all those years spent siting crosslegged?

I imagine most anyone who does meditate, would suspect that you don't want to believe it effective because, you don't want to do it, but some part of you perhaps wonders if you are missing something. Who knows? Not me. Above my pay grade.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: laughingdog]
    #27100328 - 12/21/20 05:26 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Trouble with meditation is it's a carrot stick thing just like psychedelics.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Grapefruit]
    #27100347 - 12/21/20 05:55 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

without meditation all of us are just trained idiots


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #27100458 - 12/21/20 07:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
If you don't think meditation is effective for some people, as taught by some other people how do you think the guy in the picture you posted managed to do what he did?
Just by learning a few principles?
Think he was just amusing himself with sexual fantasies all those years spent siting crosslegged?

I imagine most anyone who does meditate, would suspect that you don't want to believe it effective because, you don't want to do it, but some part of you perhaps wonders if you are missing something. Who knows? Not me. Above my pay grade.




Two words - favorable genetics


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27100876 - 12/21/20 12:57 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
without awareness all of us are just trained idiots




There are many ways to cultivate awareness and not all of them are as harsh and demanding or involving of ecstatic states, that's what I'm talking about with meditation being a carrot stick thing. It's more that ecstatic and spiritual states born of it can be just another high to chase. Same goes for experiences where you feel like you have a deeper understanding of things. The famous rabbit hole.

It's a phenomenon I fell prey to, so I have personal experiences of the dangers of it, you are better off going down the pub to blow off a bit of steam than falling into that cycle and that's really what I'd like to highlight. You end up with the inverse effect where you feel less comfortable in your own skin and hold on to pleasures more than before. Looking for a heaven that doesn't really exist except perhaps here and now. Like the red queen always spending up all her energy running only to stay in the same place.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #27100887 - 12/21/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
If you don't think meditation is effective for some people, as taught by some other people how do you think the guy in the picture you posted managed to do what he did?
Just by learning a few principles?
Think he was just amusing himself with sexual fantasies all those years spent siting crosslegged?

I imagine most anyone who does meditate, would suspect that you don't want to believe it effective because, you don't want to do it, but some part of you perhaps wonders if you are missing something. Who knows? Not me. Above my pay grade.




Two words - favorable genetics




This is a big deal that doesn't often get highlighted enough in the spiritual scene too. You often get people saying "Oh I had such and such a transformative experience doing this or that", then they go off to exhort others into doing it claiming that the results will be the same for them. Even if we trust them that they really have been somehow transformed, it's still very questionable as to whether that is replicable for everyone else.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Grapefruit]
    #27101910 - 12/22/20 01:33 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

if you take martial arts, and ask will they help people who eat at MaDonalds and are 100 or so pounds overweight, the answer is of course no.

But that does not mean others don't get health benefits, and some are able to use them in self defense, but others injure themselves sparing. Never the less some martial arts have some benefits for some people.

Of course if one, is one of those who has been injured sparing, one is more likely to have a bitter attitude. While if one has persisted, overcome injury, or been able to use one's skills, one will likely take a positive view.

But as you say there are no guarantees with most things, and usually one size does not fit all.

.  As regards psychedelics, because like many drugs they are generally illegal they attract the rebellious & those with mental problems and the irresponsible, and are often subject to impurities, and also in many countries there is no traditional shamanic guidance -- the result is as you say that many end up more confused. 
.  But again if one looks at societies where their use is traditional, (like the Huichol, or use of ibogaine in Africa, etc.) the picture is entirely different.


Edited by laughingdog (12/22/20 01:43 AM)


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: laughingdog]
    #27102026 - 12/22/20 05:28 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

One good example of it is that the eight limbs of Yoga starts with Yama and Niyama, and not Asana or Dhyana, it's a progression. Most people these days start with and promote the benefits of the latter and ignore the former. Yet I'd say the latter two are as good as worthless without a firm grounding in the first two (might take some people a year and might take some people a lifetime, some may already be living it from the start) and I'm pretty sure that's true in the thinking of the original teaching also.

Same reason Hinduism has always emphasised Karma Yoga (managing your working life healthily), as the simplest form. As the best method for the common man. And even that is probably more than most can manage within the sickness of modern society.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


Edited by Grapefruit (12/22/20 05:37 AM)


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Grapefruit]
    #27106037 - 12/24/20 03:13 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

indeed

not your mother's yoga

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sadhu&t=h_&iax=images&ia=images

--------------------------

How To Meditate VI - Meditation Practice and Daily Life

1-to 1:50 start of Buddhist version of Yama and Niyama, to support meditation, (whole video is about 8 1/2 minutes).



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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Warrk]
    #27109944 - 12/27/20 01:23 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Where is the "OG" or "A1" "universe", and how do we know that it's the actual primary one?


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: The Simulated Universe [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27110992 - 12/27/20 04:47 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Is this addressed to me LS? I have no idea. But if I were to guess I would say it is all relative, reality depends on your frame of reference.

You are living this life is this body on this planet in this virtual reality and that is what matters for now. When you are reincarnated in a different life with a different body in a different virtual reality than that is what is real and primary. The "universe" you are in is merely the setting in which the gameplay is conducted.


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