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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: When is it logical to love? [Re: teknix]
#27003184 - 10/25/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, first of all, what is love?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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VeryStrangeMan
Weirdo

Registered: 10/25/13
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Re: When is it logical to love? [Re: Rahz]
#27003820 - 10/25/20 10:57 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Love is equal to subset of rules that claim immortality of every single memory and the rules that enable hope of better Universe.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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no kidding?
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VeryStrangeMan
Weirdo

Registered: 10/25/13
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You better check yourself before you turn to wreck, yourSelf.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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I'm wrecked now, if you are interested
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: When is it logical to love? [Re: Pinkerton]
#27014920 - 11/01/20 12:18 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pinkerton said:
Love feels good. Hate feels bad. Most people love to do what makes them feel good. Most people hate to do what makes them feel bad.
People often choose to engage in self-harming behaviors. Understanding why people frequently choose to do what makes them feel bad is the holy grail of psychology. Hate must provide a type of joy or satisfaction, or else so many people wouldn't invest (sometimes years) engaging in it. Hate can feel orgasmic. People invest in what they think may bring desirable rewards.
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VeryStrangeMan
Weirdo

Registered: 10/25/13
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Thanks. Surely your pulse is intact still, perhaps carrying you away, but the Clock is really primitive - it simply evaluates us all and doesn't offer anything impossible. It is not me offering empathy for your wreckage. It is above me. One more word and I will be robbing us all.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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when you make a promise, you extend yourself into time.
it adds a dimension to life.
love is in that zone.
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Jewstress
Momma


Registered: 03/21/19
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Never
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VeryStrangeMan
Weirdo

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Re: When is it logical to love? [Re: Jewstress]
#27015711 - 11/01/20 12:54 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Perhaps you can het faster towards plateau eternal with 'never'. Still doesn't count as most logical way. Keen, resistively persisting logics above love. Dangerous too. Uneasy to speak about. But not the ant I am looking for. There are other ent-ants that are based on that fuel. It is supranatural, not particulary logical.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: When is it logical to love? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#27016166 - 11/01/20 06:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
Pinkerton said:
Love feels good. Hate feels bad. Most people love to do what makes them feel good. Most people hate to do what makes them feel bad.
People often choose to engage in self-harming behaviors. Understanding why people frequently choose to do what makes them feel bad is the holy grail of psychology. Hate must provide a type of joy or satisfaction, or else so many people wouldn't invest (sometimes years) engaging in it. Hate can feel orgasmic. People invest in what they think may bring desirable rewards.
One could say people often love to hate. There's also the not fun hate where people lash out after their patience runs dry.
In both cases it's a matter of unmet needs(desires). Does love need anything at all? It seems when needs become involved the motives become questionable.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Love is not about logic or reason, it is a moral imperative if one assumes Christian, Jewish, or Buddhist frameworks for example. 1 John 4:8 asserts that "God IS Love while every sura in the Qu'ran is prefaced by "Allah the Merciful, the Compassionate." One has to fine tune the meaning of love in any of these contexts. Love in the New Testament is agapé which is is a very specific form of love, a dispassionate warm, universal specie unlike some of the other forms designated in classic Greek thought like Philia (friendship), Storge (familial), Ludens (playful), Pragma (dutiful), Philautia (self-love) or Eros (sexual or spiritual in the sense of yearning for the transcendental). In Judaism, specifically Kabbalah, Chesed/Gedulah) is the sphere of loving-kindness. Its opposite divine attribute is Din (or Geburah, Judgment). Geburah and Chesed are mediated by the sphere Tiphereth (Beauty) also called Rachamim, Compassion. There is Metta in Buddhism, also loving kindness and there is Karuna, Compassion. The differences are subtle within each system or comparatively. In Christianity Love is not an attribute of God as it seems in the Qu'ran, somehow lesser than the essence as 1 John 4:8 asserts as the metaphysical Ground of Being.
In Buddhism the descriptions I read that differentiate Metta (loving kindness) from Karuna (Compassion) in Buddhism seem artificial and just as difficult to separate Chesed (loving kindness) from Rachamim (Compassion) in Kabbalah. Compassion seems to partake of both loving kindness and judgment, especially as they are graphically symbolized on the glyph of the tree of Life in Kabbalah along with the understanding that in Kabbalah the notion of Coincidentia Oppositorum and the union of opposites runs through the entire philosophy. Chesed/Gedulah is sometimes called Loving Kindness and other times it is called Mercy to balance Judgment of Geburah. In this idiom the opposite of love is not hate but rather Judgment, like the wrath of God versus the Son of God. Nowhere are there teachings to either hate or to judge others. One is bid to 'turn the other cheek,' but not continuously. I noticed how in his movies Chuck Norris always turned the other cheek after the first blow. But then his Mercy was balanced by Judgment as to how to retaliate in the violent exchange.
Also, this is not to equate violence with judgment or wrath. Slapping someone to keep them from lapsing into a drug-induced coma, for example, would be an act of compassion. Intentionality is the single invariant feature in consciousness according to Phenomenology.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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VeryStrangeMan
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Sorry, but if you are not mentally slapping politicians 24/7 for being inadequate, you are not eligible to speak about wholesome love within humankind yet. It surely requires hefty dose of logics to afford one. Deus est mortus, logica obtinet.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Love is not about logic or reason, it is a moral imperative if one assumes Christian, Jewish, or Buddhist frameworks for example. ...
like I said, commitment.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:... One is bid to 'turn the other cheek,' but not continuously. I noticed how in his movies Chuck Norris always turned the other cheek after the first blow. But then his Mercy was balanced by Judgment as to how to retaliate in the violent exchange.
new appreciation for Chucky!
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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It's the Utilitarian ethic. Perhaps you are more familiar with its fictional version from Spock on Star Trek instead of the philosophers Jeremy Bentham or John Stuart Mill. Namely, 'the good of the many over the good of the few or the one.' It becomes a very interesting exercise to consider the ethics in eliminating a murderer before [s]he murders again. Or as I saw it posed once, 'not to kill the baby-killer is to kill the baby.' I am in agreement with Hitler's assassination even though all attempts failed. But what about the killing of baby Hitler before he was even a corporal in WW I where presumably he killed British, French, or American soldiers in combat? Is there any ethical justification for killing an innocent IF certainty of a future existed? The question is hypothetical because prescience, precognition, and prophesy are only made certain after-the-fact, in time following the preternatural knowledge of the future.
I despise Trump and his ilk and my disgust extends to political supporters of him. Yet I am guided by professional ethics and so when admitted Trump supporters have requested hypnotherapy for conditions tormenting them OR tormenting their young child, my professional ethics operate over my personal bias. My professional ethics are in turn informed by my subjective factors including the value of agapé (dispassionate willing of the good). Apparently you do not grok the apparent contradictions or else you would not have made the half-baked judgment of me that you have. I have no philial love for Trumpsters, neither do I like them for their callousness and related personal flaws. But the absence of a love grounded in the more visceral aspects of my psyche does not preclude me acting according to a higher, more universal ethical principle. I remember reading a postcard given to me to mail by an acquaintance on a camping trip. He had written insulting things about me on the postcard because I was responsible for my father's car and did not acquiesce to his reckless 16 year old desires. I was 17 but even then I was capable of being trustworthy despite my personal bias (i.e., tossing away the insulting postcard its recipient would read back home). In my former career I was often faced with conducting therapy with individuals who offended every decent value I can think of. Perhaps you should reflect on a moment in your own life story when you chose to act above the bias of your own self-interest. It would seem that you need to expand your own capacity to handle contradictions that can only be resolved on a level transcending the personal-emotional.
Kabbalistically speaking, Judgment (Geburah) and Mercy (Chesed) are balanced by Rahamim (Compassion) which draws from both Judgment and Mercy but which aims to 'restore' the greatest degree of 'brokenness,' not only those selected by personal bias. I have on more than one occasion transcended a personal bias in order to act honestly and hence ethically. Your need to judge me is just attempting to put someone else down in the interest of feigning a higher moral stance. Morally depraved individuals who command political power over multitudes need to be shown for the monsters they are. Compassion for the many partakes of a certain amount of judgment against an enemy of the many who rules exclusively in his own self-interest. Trump and his cronies are guilty of many offenses against the American people and are directly responsible for deaths whether from lies about Hydrochloroquine thereby killing a few intentionally misinformed people or by refusal to act according to correct medical protocols resulting in potentially thousands of deaths. Trump and the GOP are guilty of crimes against humanity but it is unlikely any will receive the consequences they deserve. Ill-gotten monies would be appropriated and distributed to victims in a just world. This is not a just world.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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laughingdog
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Registered: 03/14/04
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Surprised biology and hormones get ignored in this thread, Guess folks are in love with concepts, which seems a little dry ... if you know, what I mean?
Of course science is also a little dry and quickly leads to all sorts of technicalities, outside of anyone's expertise here ... I mean the biochemistry of hormones and the variation between species ... is complex beyond belief.
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VeryStrangeMan
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Re: When is it logical to love? [Re: laughingdog]
#27019618 - 11/03/20 02:41 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hi.
I can add something to this, even though I am okay with scientific materials, I often don't take them as cores of things, no, more like data that can be "core+related" to absolute juice of truth (which I won't attempt to prove with my own words).
The thing about hormones, if we consider analogy to flux density in magnetism and permeability tells that it is normal that two opposites attract. So far - check, according to widespread "truths". But to be more specifical, in my million hour trip the highest refinement I have concluded is that hormone, a singular aspect (and singularity most often in an endless ending of something). Victor-err-y. {strongest}, (not most appealing) biologically most bio-logical dominator's descriptor function within it's hormone system is to have a strong message brought out. And mind now that if you are "average" (to make it lovely - pretty good) at things, as long as you are biologically classical, your hormones will be number one proclaimers of your strengths. It is also true within dual system of Universe, it gives self-confidence and self-appeal for an individual, but!!! on a high high level (spiritually) it all ends where only a single (again!!!) hormone bearer will have the very high strength given to his/her mind, to love all worthy ones, yet witness their chaotical confusions of life.
Oh, I am bad at this writing thingy, yes. I have a huge advance to meditate with purpose and well balanced hormone therapy. I am ugly and bad situated. I tend to spend more than I can, on extra beer and smokes, yet to compensate, I am being critical about prejudices, my Voice and many other things. I have witnessed how hormones bring inner peace and acceptance of myself, strongly following bio-daizy-chain. You love to love. And to have more love. Theoretically we all are given IKEA or, hmm, "cheap Chinese" equivalent of material. It works. Now we get funky with it. Yet to overengineer it with parts out of "lying around parts bin" is not impossible. You add a tweak here, there, purposefully improve the thing, adapting things you learn on your way, being critical about usefulness of it. (If you are a douche, most likely you don't, if ypou are spoiled, you create a stress cage and change your bio to work in ugly way). Now go further and further, you will reach a phase where yoursuperhormones keep you calm around everyone. Be it most attractive (in any way) people or quite opposite, idiots you consider worth killing. You cannot kill them, due to laws and consequences. You change your triggers to signalize all of them people you flirt with to recognize your strengths again. And so do you reduce the daizy chain's length of duration by elaminating all unneccesary information, yet leaving biological essence. In the end of events you will be singular wh(a)ormonium - ability to overcome anything and anyone at cost of clasifying them. And that hurts, believe me, because you will notice "pretty nice" people with kids, that deeply inside have witnessed a lot, maybe even this, and they know that they will die too once, yet they don't attempt to become stronger, better, faster. And you cannot blame them. Just that the kids.. and so you reduce and induce the hormon cycle searching a single stray of hope in this void. Somewhere, where you become worthy to be entitled a human being you realize it is the same LOVE again, within us all, that we split and multiply like them bread crumbs. Now probably you have learnt to apply hormone bursts like an animal to disarm dangerous faggets by showing your animal to them. But come closer to this race towards Victory and it will stand there. That somewhere there is stronger whormone. So strong that it is beyond ugly, just like baby poo, sometimes too. If you accept it and learn to love it, perhaps it is worth it. I am tired now. I don't want to fight, but that is all we ever do. Split hair, because guns aare already in wrong hands and we have nothing but love. Split. Love. You. Too. Not youse, douches. Youses, loveworthy.
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laughingdog
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Quote:
VeryStrangeMan said: ....
The thing about hormones, if we consider analogy to flux density in magnetism ...
. Like RGV said way back, it all sounds way too stoned to make sense. Even you may not know what it was supposed to mean in a few days.
. Then again the whole question is vague and much of the thread sort of continues the flux density in magnetism, except reversed in the space time, of orbiting string theories that haven't tied the knot yet. However with a little K-Y Jelly it may be possible to slip the knots into yeses that reaffirm the reincarnation of Jesus as pure love, which is what we all need to hold these shifting sands...
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VeryStrangeMan
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Re: When is it logical to love? [Re: laughingdog]
#27020403 - 11/03/20 10:00 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oh, I am deathmetaller, I will surely remember this and all of the slipknots and milestones will circulate in my minds eye until they are embedded in my path. Also I am sober a lot, just feel lile being needled 24/7. Not a native English speaker, but, hey, I talk little in my native too, can't expect me to be perfect writer with so little practice. Take care now. I will. Remember.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
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Quote:
VeryStrangeMan said: .... I will. Remember.
actually the perhaps most relevant quote goes:
"And this too shall pass."
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