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Stable Genius
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26990748 - 10/17/20 09:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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The whole thing has me scratching my head. Yes the undercarriage meaning the cradle the cylinder was in.
I agree that hiding information is not how things should be but if Henderson was no longer working for the OPCW, and the majority of experts agreed with the findings, is it necessarily criminal to ask that his report/document be removed?
Did you see the video from the NY Times I linked in the other thread regarding disinformation? I thought about posting it here as I think it's relevant, without derailing the thread.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Stable Genius]
#26990753 - 10/17/20 10:03 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stable Genius said: I agree that hiding information is not how things should be but if Henderson was no longer working for the OPCW, and the majority of experts agreed with the findings, is it necessarily criminal to ask that his report/document be removed?
Where did you read that "the majority of experts agreed with the findings" in the OPCW's report? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I missed that. I was under the impression that most of the experts have said they defend Henderson's position.
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Stable Genius
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26990787 - 10/17/20 10:44 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm just trying to find it, and will post it
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Stable Genius]
#26990806 - 10/17/20 11:02 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I seem to recall reading that there were something like 8 inspectors in Douma and 20 other experts, and I've read that 20 have come out in support of Henderson, so that seems to be the majority. I'll keep looking for confirmation of this.
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Stable Genius
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26990813 - 10/17/20 11:08 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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It was from Robert Fisk in one of your links from page 2
Quote:
The OPCW might have saved itself much embarrassment – and ridicule by the Russians – if it had simply told the whole truth: that while a majority of its scientists came to the conclusion that the “gas” cylinders came through the roof (ie, from an aircraft), a minority report believed that they did not.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/douma-syria-opcw-chemical-weapons-chlorine-gas-video-conspiracy-theory-russia-a8927116.html
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Stable Genius] 1
#26990827 - 10/17/20 11:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cool, thanks. If that turns out to be the case, then I agree with your point. I'm now reading this letter which may or may not shed more light on this.
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Stable Genius
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26990834 - 10/17/20 11:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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So even though the sender is redacted that letter has to be from Henderson.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26990842 - 10/17/20 11:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, I'm sure the letter is from Henderson.
I read the letter, and it makes it pretty clear that people who were part of the original inspection team all agreed the canisters were not dropped from aircraft. It then went to a "core" team to finalize the report, and the conclusions were changed.
It's not clear who was on that core team other than one person from the original team (a paramedic). Was the core team engineering experts? Henderson was clearly confused about it. That's an important question I'd like to figure out.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stable Genius
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26990881 - 10/18/20 12:45 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: It's not clear who was on that core team other than one person from the original team (a paramedic). Was the core team engineering experts? Henderson was clearly confused about it. That's an important question I'd like to figure out.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Stable Genius]
#26995525 - 10/20/20 11:12 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Chomsky: OPCW cover-up of Syria probe is ‘shocking’
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#27078055 - 12/08/20 01:00 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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And still more evidence proving the OPCW findings in the Syria chemical weapons probe were intentionally manipulated:
OPCW executives praised whistleblower and criticized Syria cover-up, leaks reveal
Quote:
Documents obtained by The Grayzone show that OPCW executives privately criticized the manipulation of a Syria chemical weapons probe, and supported a dissenting veteran inspector. One official, however, feared helping the “Russian narrative.” These private admissions further expose the public whitewash of the Douma cover-up, and undermine the ongoing attacks on the whistleblowers who challenged it.
It's a long article and very damning. I'll provide a brief summary in the next day or two.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#27079189 - 12/08/20 06:09 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Rt.com actually did a pretty good of summarizing the article for me:
OPCW director worried truth about Syria ‘chemical attack’ report would feed ‘Russian narrative’
Quote:
While praising the OPCW whistleblower’s integrity and professionalism, one director worried that seeking truth about the altered report on a “chemical attack” in Syria might help Russia, which he denounced as the enemy. “I fear there is little one can do, since the report is final and out – unless one wants to feed in the Russian narrative and that I would never do, as they really are not bona fide friends of this organization, that’s for sure,” was the message of a director to Dr. Brendan Whelan, one of the whistleblowers who challenged the ‘interim’ report by the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) as having been doctored for political purposes. . . . The “core” team appointed from new OPCW hires was then tasked with writing the final report, but apparently waited until Whelan’s term at the organization expired in September 2018 to publish its version of the report. Ironically, it did nothing but speculate – conveniently omitting any evidence actually gathered by the Douma inspectors to blame the government of President Bashar Assad in Damascus for what might have been a “chlorine” attack on the town held by Jaysh al-Islam militants. . . . Four whistleblowers have since come forward to challenge the OPCW’s alterations of the initial report. The organization’s response has been to defame them as disgruntled employees, while NATO-affiliated narrative management outfit Bellingcat actually doxxed Whelan. . . . And he wasn’t the only one. In October, OPCW’s founding director general José Bustani was blocked by the US, UK, and France from addressing the UN Security Council – the same countries that launched missile strikes against Syria without waiting for the Douma investigation and have been accused of pressuring the OPCW into publishing the report retroactively validating that action. . . . Western governments are trying to politicize the OPCW and, “in fact, turn it into an obedient tool to realize their military and political agenda,” Russia’s envoy to the OPCW Alexander Shulgin told RT last month. These emails appear to support his assessment.
Meanwhile, mainstream media coverage of the OPCW whistleblower complaints has consisted of repeating the official defamatory claims about them or citing Bellingcat, leaving the job of digging for actual documents to outlets like the Grayzone and other independent journalists.
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Stable Genius
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#27080539 - 12/09/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
“I fear there is little one can do, since the report is final and out – unless one wants to feed in the Russian narrative and that I would never do, as they really are not bona fide friends of this organization, that’s for sure,” was the message of a director to Dr. Brendan Whelan,
I wonder what Russia has done to refer to them as not bona fide friends?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Stable Genius]
#27080607 - 12/09/20 02:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Great question - especially from the OPCW.
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Enlil
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#27085471 - 12/12/20 10:45 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't see how any of that changes the findings of OPCW.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Enlil]
#27085507 - 12/12/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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You don't understand how intentionally hiding information saying there is no evidence of a chemical attack changes anything???
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#27085561 - 12/12/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Unless they change their findings, no. Every dispute has two sides. One side eventually wins. The fact that the other side had something to say doesn't change the outcome.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Enlil]
#27085595 - 12/12/20 11:52 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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They hid their findings because transparency would have helped the Russian narrative.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#27085609 - 12/12/20 12:00 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Even if that's true, it doesn't change the outcome of the investigation. It doesn't change the fact that OPCW concluded the chemical attack occurred.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Did Bashar al-Assad launch a 7 Apr 18 Chemical Attack in Douma? [Re: Enlil]
#27085646 - 12/12/20 12:21 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Their final report said that, but their investigators disagree.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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