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Offlineredshadow
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plastic lids
    #26966554 - 10/02/20 07:23 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

has anyone used the lids in the link below before? ive seen them on on myco shops. they definably dont leak but there is no rubber seal. its def safe fin the PC as its plastic #5(Polypropylene). i did a quick test with some in the PC just to be sure and they survived just fine stayed rigid(plastic didn't soften from heat) ive just never seen these before and a little worried about the lack of a rubber seal.


https://www.target.com/p/ball-reusable-wide-mouth-food-storage-lids-gray/-/A-54314629


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OfflineGreenGills
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Re: plastic lids [Re: redshadow]
    #26966600 - 10/02/20 07:58 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I have used plastic lids for a long time without a rubber ring with no contams, though the lids in your link state that they aren't good for canning (or microwaving). I would advise against those particular lids.


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OfflineOne of Us
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Re: plastic lids [Re: GreenGills]
    #26966634 - 10/02/20 08:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I use the very same, and they work great! Just finished loading up some jars just now actually.




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Offlineredshadow
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Re: plastic lids [Re: One of Us]
    #26966645 - 10/02/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

wooohooo! nice to see. thanks for the info!

One of Us, are those filter discs i see under the lids?


Edited by redshadow (10/02/20 08:47 PM)


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Offlineredshadow
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Re: plastic lids [Re: redshadow]
    #26971323 - 10/05/20 09:03 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

ran into an issue with these lids, i used high temp silicone and it stuck to the plastic but i was easily able to peel it off. does anyone else use high temp silicone with the plastic lids or a different glue?

the silicone comes off the metal lids too but not with as much ease as the plastic. wondering if the pressure that build up in the jars when cooking will push a small opening in the glue. ive had this happen with some sprinkler pipes as i didn't have PVC and tried to get away with what i had, silicone. once the pressure built up in the hose the silicone came right off.


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: plastic lids [Re: redshadow]
    #26971380 - 10/05/20 10:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

check the expiration for the silicone. i had a tube that worked great for over a year and then never set recently.


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Re: plastic lids [Re: JHOVA]
    #26971387 - 10/05/20 10:08 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah those should work just fine.


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Re: plastic lids [Re: JHOVA]
    #26971393 - 10/05/20 10:12 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I use 16oz jars with plastic lids stuffed with polyfil. I buy them at the grocery store they usually have garlic or something in them. So I just empty them out wash them and stuff the lid with poly and I have jars that I can get locally and are cheap.


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: plastic lids [Re: seand04] * 1
    #26971401 - 10/05/20 10:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I've never had any problem with the Ball leak proof I have dozens of them modded but I actually like these better.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B083GV6LS8?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

They're ugly AF but they're cheaper and the silicone ring makes them super easy to get the lid off and still leak proof. Even with wet ISO gloves.


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InvisibleLenz
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Re: plastic lids [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26971413 - 10/05/20 10:47 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I use these plastic lids:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076VTY6XS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_gr.EFb29VK2ST

I also had a problem with the silicone peeling off easily but you just need to scuff up your lid with sandpaper so the silicone can grip the surface better. I remade all my lids and they work very well now. Could help to let your silicone set for a little bit before PCing, although the PC will also apparently speed up the curing process.

@Grimsweepeer, do those not warp at all from PCing? Would love to get plastic one piece lids that can be PC’d and don’t leak for LI.


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Offlineredshadow
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Re: plastic lids [Re: Lenz]
    #26971417 - 10/05/20 10:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

thanks JHOVA, i checked the expiration date and it the silicone is still good. im thinking of using some epoxy putty, kind of over kill but its waterproof and can handle 300F and 1500PSI(overkill again). looking for a better alternative tho casue these lids kick ass, i fucking hate the metal.


thanks Grimsweeper. unfortunately i saw those or some similar in a LC lid post here after i bought the ball lids. those are a much better deal. next round for sure.

thank Lenz good idea with sanding, dont know why i didn't think of that, just figured it would hold well. maybe ill try that.


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Edited by redshadow (10/05/20 10:52 PM)


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Re: plastic lids [Re: redshadow]
    #26971495 - 10/06/20 01:52 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I've used the Aotzi colored lids, white Wal-Mart MainStays lids, and I'm currently using those Ball leak-proofs for my LC

I tried doing unmodded lids using the white MainStays and colored Aotzis. Based on my experiences, the white MainStays are much more airtight than the Aotzis

I say this because I experienced a VERY long colonization time, probably due to insufficient GE. Eventually they all did get to 100% after opening them up slightly

The Aotzis feel a bit flimsier than either the MainStays or the Leak Proofs, but I'm satisifed with them anyway. So every brand of plastic lid I've tried so far has worked fairly well for me


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: plastic lids [Re: Lenz]
    #26971835 - 10/06/20 10:11 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Lenz said:
I use these plastic lids:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076VTY6XS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_gr.EFb29VK2ST

I also had a problem with the silicone peeling off easily but you just need to scuff up your lid with sandpaper so the silicone can grip the surface better. I remade all my lids and they work very well now. Could help to let your silicone set for a little bit before PCing, although the PC will also apparently speed up the curing process.

@Grimsweepeer, do those not warp at all from PCing? Would love to get plastic one piece lids that can be PC’d and don’t leak for LI.



The ugly ones with the silicone ring feel a but more flimsy than Ball Leak Proof like the white mainstay ones do but when they come out of the PC warm they hold up well. I'd trust them with LC, the mainstay I wouldn't.


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Offlineredshadow
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Re: plastic lids [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26972401 - 10/06/20 03:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Update:

So last night i decided to run some experiments with the silicone glue and the ball lids. I sanded the area that needed glue down as Lenz suggested. But i also hate the 3-4 hour cure and 24 hour full cure time so i ran my hear gun over them to see how the glue would react to heat. i figured the silicone only dries when the nasty vinegar smelling stuff is all evaporated out of the silicone. the outer layer dried nicely so with that going well i tossed them into a pyrex baking dish and threw them in the oven at 180F for 20-30min and when they cam out they were practically ready to go and cured, super dry and hardened. i would let them sit a cool for a a bit before using them tho.

The sanding seemed to help too as the glue isnt coming off as easy as before.

also had some great ideas for filters i will share soon once i put the ideas to the test!


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Edited by redshadow (10/07/20 10:29 PM)


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InvisibleSir Pentinite
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Re: plastic lids [Re: redshadow]
    #26972495 - 10/06/20 04:32 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

The gray Ball lids are polypropylene which is resistant to steam autoclaving (pressure cooking). I asked about them last year when they first started showing up on store shelves, then got some myself.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26027882

Quote:

redshadow said:
i figured the silicone only dries when the nasty vinegar smelling stuff is all evaporated out of the silicone.




That roughly coincides with it being done curing, but that's not what causes it to cure. RTV (room-temperature vulcanizing) silicone reacts with moisture in the air and releases acetic acid (that vinegar smell) during the curing process. In case you were wondering...


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Offlinesporecap
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Re: plastic lids [Re: Sir Pentinite]
    #26973090 - 10/07/20 12:50 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

So you had a good experience with these gray lids so far? They keep their shape after numerous PC cycles? I'm just wondering since in the description it is specifically indicated that: "Not for use for home canning". I really would like to get away from the metal 2-piece lids...


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Re: plastic lids [Re: sporecap]
    #26973097 - 10/07/20 01:09 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sporecap said:
So you had a good experience with these gray lids so far? They keep their shape after numerous PC cycles? I'm just wondering since in the description it is specifically indicated that: "Not for use for home canning". I really would like to get away from the metal 2-piece lids...




I think that disclaimer is there more so to avoid getting sued if someone gets botulism or something for attempting long-term preservation of foods with those jar lids. I assume the seal is not as air-tight as that of a metal gasket


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Re: plastic lids [Re: meowjinx]
    #26974438 - 10/07/20 08:11 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

The grey lids are great - the white ones at walmart not so much.  I use the 29mm SFD's embedded into the melted plastic around the hole for my grain jars.  I've never had one come off.

These lids have been cycled 5 or 6 times so far and still look like new.





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Offlineredshadow
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Re: plastic lids [Re: PBJ710]
    #26974616 - 10/07/20 10:24 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

@ sporecap. Yes ive run a few tests and the plastic stays hard i think they are pretty good lids. i ran them for a solid 3 hours no prob/ they do say not to use them in a PC but they are made of plastic # 5 (polypropylene) has a melting point of 320F and i believe the PC doesn't get much hotter than 280F

i first discovered these on a myco shop. (link below)

https://mycosupply.com/product/plastic-canning-jar-lids/

i first purchased these white lids(link below), not knowing they were not for canning and ended up looking for a buying the gray lids.  but there is a good LC lid tek on here that i came across after buying  the gray lids and see that the ones i originally bought would have probably work. the white lids are a much softer plastic and i actually like the gray ones better. even tho the gray ones are leak proof i decided to get the silicone rings to make a better seal.

im waiting on some teflon tubing and will be making some GE filters with. Ill post once i have a finished product.


Softer white lids
https://www.amazon.com/Ball-Wide-Mouth-Plastic-Storage-8-Count/dp/B000SSN3L2

Silicone Seal/Gasket
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TSQ9DZ1/?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=theshro-20

Dope LC lid tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26800865/fpart/1/vc/1


@ PBJ710

How do you melt the filter disc to the lids? that sounds pretty awesome. what material are the discs you use made from?


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: plastic lids [Re: redshadow] * 1
    #26974641 - 10/07/20 10:46 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

The cheap white ones are okay. That's about it. I still use them if I run out of superior lids but I wrap them like a petri if I have to use them.



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Re: plastic lids [Re: redshadow]
    #26974656 - 10/07/20 11:06 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

redshadow said:
@ sporecap. Yes ive run a few tests and the plastic stays hard i think they are pretty good lids. i ran them for a solid 3 hours no prob/ they do say not to use them in a PC but they are made of plastic # 5 (polypropylene) has a melting point of 320F and i believe the PC doesn't get much hotter than 280F

i first discovered these on a myco shop. (link below)

https://mycosupply.com/product/plastic-canning-jar-lids/

i first purchased these white lids(link below), not knowing they were not for canning and ended up looking for a buying the gray lids.  but there is a good LC lid tek on here that i came across after buying  the gray lids and see that the ones i originally bought would have probably work. the white lids are a much softer plastic and i actually like the gray ones better. even tho the gray ones are leak proof i decided to get the silicone rings to make a better seal.

im waiting on some teflon tubing and will be making some GE filters with. Ill post once i have a finished product.


Softer white lids
https://www.amazon.com/Ball-Wide-Mouth-Plastic-Storage-8-Count/dp/B000SSN3L2

Silicone Seal/Gasket
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TSQ9DZ1/?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=theshro-20

Dope LC lid tek
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26800865/fpart/1/vc/1


@ PBJ710

How do you melt the filter disc to the lids? that sounds pretty awesome. what material are the discs you use made from?




I'm using the gray ones with basically that exact LC lid design right now.  They seem to be working well



I do have silicone rings on hand, but didn't bother using them for these LCs. I don't actually plan to use the SHIP very often, I'd rather just carefully crack open lid to aspirate the LC, and the silicone rings could complicate opening the lid

Even without the silicone ring, I've swirled the LC quite vigorously and haven't had any leaks. This was before I added the water. I'm using PastyWhite's EzLC tek



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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: plastic lids [Re: meowjinx]
    #26974691 - 10/07/20 11:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I have both the cheap mainstay type and the leakproof  ones. I wrap both in glad like a petri and use them for grain and LC. The white mainstay ones have to be cooked a quarter turn loose or they'll warp. The leakproof do fine (so far) if cooked tight.


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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: plastic lids [Re: redshadow]
    #26974731 - 10/08/20 12:11 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

redshadow said:

@ PBJ710

How do you melt the filter disc to the lids? that sounds pretty awesome. what material are the discs you use made from?




You actually just melt the lid and just stick the SFD in the molten plastic :wink:

I drill a 3/8" hole then use a propane torch.  I heat the backside of the lid for about a half second to warm the plastic, then the top side of the lid for about 1 second (moving torch in a circle around the hole) to make it liquid enough.  Immediately after heating it, drop the SFD in place over the hole, flip it over on the worksurface and use 1/2" deep socket to apply mild pressure to the back of the lid which will imbed the SFD in the surface. If the hole deforms much at all during heating, it's too hot.

You won't be able to pull them off after they are on, so there is that downside to deal with...

I believe they are PTFE SFDs...they came from a mush vendor.


Edited by PBJ710 (10/08/20 12:25 AM)


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OfflineForgotten Oak
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Re: plastic lids [Re: redshadow]
    #26974774 - 10/08/20 01:03 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Did the RTV remain well-stuck to the lids after the PC cycle?


I discovered after getting the bright idea to put a polycarbonate (Lexan) window in my SAB (due to a distortion right between the arm holes that I got tired of looking around), that polypropylene has "low surface energy" and therefore, nothing wants to stick to it.

Of course, I only learned this after cutting out the side of my SAB, rouging up the perimeter of the cutout, and installing the Lexan with pure silicon caulk. After it cured, I was quite thrilled with the new crystal clear window in my SAB. Only to have it pop loose while cleaning it up.  :facepalm:  After much research that should have been done before any cutting, I learned about the low surface energy of PP and the fact that hardly anything will bond with it.

I eventually found this Loctite product that is specifically made to glue to polypropylene and polyethylene, and it did work to attach the Lexan window to my SAB. :grin:  However, it is essentially just a primer that preps the surface, and cyanoacrylate glue, so it is a very thin gel - almost like water. So it probably wouldn't work well for gluing the filters to the lids. The filter might soak it up, and it definitely wouldn't fill the gaps where the brand name is embossed into the lid. Although, if you moved it off to one side where the lid was smooth...

But if you need to attach anything solid to polypropylene, I can attest that it does work like a charm, and that they aren't kidding when they say it bonds in seconds. You get about 2 seconds to make any adjustments once the two surfaces touch, then they are stuck. You could still pry them apart at that point, but the glue will be ruined and you'll have to sand it off and start over. I'm not sure how the bond would hold up to a PC though, and my SAB won't fit in my PC, so I can't test it!


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Offlineredshadow
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Re: plastic lids [Re: Forgotten Oak]
    #26975771 - 10/08/20 04:31 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Nice find Forgotten Oak.

Your right about nothing wanting to stick the the Lids. Sanding them helped with that quite a bit and using a generous amount helps too.

I also used some epoxy putty that worked very well but is sort of over kill and pricey.

https://www.amazon.com/J-B-Weld-8277-White-Pack/dp/B000BRQ0TW/ref=sr_1_9?crid=74R0ZBGUAZQH&dchild=1&keywords=jb+weld&qid=1602196204&sprefix=jb+weld%2Caps%2C239&sr=8-9

This stuff will stick to it pretty good but is also a bit pricey.

https://www.amazon.com/J-B-Weld-37901-Temperature-Resistant/dp/B01IBOBY74/ref=sr_1_8?crid=74R0ZBGUAZQH&dchild=1&keywords=jb+weld&qid=1602196204&sprefix=jb+weld%2Caps%2C239&sr=8-8


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Offlineredshadow
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Re: plastic lids [Re: redshadow]
    #27269097 - 03/25/21 03:52 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Hey Guys,

just wanted to update this thread with some good new info. I cam across this stuff while working on another project and realized after working with it and reading its specs this is the stuff to use when making lids.

its called Flex Seal Paste, its a type of rubber glue. Its insanely sticky, sticks very well to PP plastic (polypropylene) without any sanding and of course with sanding it grabs on like no tomorrow. It scrapes off like silicone so you can replace items on the lid and reuse you lids and can handle high temps and pressure. Its also quite thick and in my opinion  much easier to work with than silicone and its much difference in price, well worth it in terms of the advantages in saving me time and effort and fucked up lids\jars.

https://www.amazon.com/Flex-Seal-Paste-Jar-White/dp/B084TDJLKT/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=flex+paste+seal&qid=1616708752&sr=8-1


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InvisiblePieHole

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Re: plastic lids [Re: redshadow]
    #27282267 - 04/26/21 05:33 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

J-B Weld 8277 WaterWeld Epoxy Putty

WaterWeld can withstand continuous temperatures of 300F/149C and intermittent temperatures of 350°F/177°C. Wouldn't be good to inhale expoxy fumes past 200c or damage ypur pc.

---------

J-B Weld 37901 ExtremeHeat High Temperature Resistant Metallic Paste

Isn't this a repair kit on iron and steel? Lids are usually tin\brass and I assume its just like solder paste where it'll take its form at a certain temperature depending on the size. If leaked onto your aluminum pc canner it would be corrosive.
--------

Flex paste
10psi which would be around 239F, I'm sure it could go further but at what point does it start getting in the air you breath? Flex I'm really interested in, how many times are you able to reuse it before you see it degrade\smell?

https://www.flexsealproducts.com/product/flex-paste/
Q: In what temperatures can I apply Flex Paste?
A: Flex Paste can be applied in a wide range of temperatures from 0°F – 150ۜ°F. Once applied and fully cured it can withstand a wider range of temperatures from -40°F – 200°F.


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* Plastic lids Daft420 1,771 4 07/24/01 09:01 PM
by Doc
* Easy sterilization w/o plastic lids? Captain_Undeez 1,355 2 04/12/02 10:18 AM
by SixTango
* Plastic lids NOS4A2 2,741 19 07/15/07 12:09 PM
by royer

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