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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Room air purification [Re: Camera93]
#26985117 - 10/14/20 01:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Camera93 said: Starnoob, are you implying that clean spawn, spawned to bulk has the potential to succumb to mold from an areas spore load?
the appearing "wetter" is condensation created from the heat that myc produces, in jar or on plate
Starting off with an insult is pretty awful of you.
I'm absolutely stating this yes because coir is not mold proof, it's mold resistant and you're playing a game of numbers at all times. When those numbers wander upwards you're increasing the chance for coir to mold. To say coir does not mold is a fallacy. We've gone from, and I'm really putting emphasis on this here we've gone FROM someone like RR stating things like trichoderma has a hard time germinating to people claiming that it simply doesn't. So who is right? RR.
Mold spore will germinate on damp surfaces if the conditions are correct. To say coir is more mold resistant than sheet metal, ABS plastic or concrete is borderline mental illness.
I'm astounded the logical leaps people are making here to think that I somehow don't believe bad spawn causes contamination when I have said outright it does, fullstop. I'm saying it's not the only reason and again, why is cleaning your fucking home so taboo around here?
If your home has a mold problem fucking fix it, who gives a piss about mushroom cultivation? You don't breathe that shit long term without severe consequences. I'm on Montelukast, Pulmicort, Atrovent, Salbutamol and supplemental oxygen to keep what's left of my lungs functioning because I worked dealing with that shit for over a decade.
Clean spawn, clean home. Those sound like two tastes that go great together.
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Vylie
The more you know

Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: Room air purification *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: starbones]
#26985125 - 10/14/20 01:14 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Vylie
Reason for deletion: ...
Edited by Vylie (10/14/20 01:20 PM)
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
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Re: Room air purification [Re: Vylie]
#26985136 - 10/14/20 01:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Don't know, most bacteria is easy enough to spot and I'll toss those jars before I do anything with them. Bacteria can hide in mycellium though there's a really good thread on it I can't find where a fella was working on agar and showing how things can "piggyback" mycellium.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone here about your spawn being a culprit so please don't take anything I've written to be validation it's anything else. I'm trying to defend the fuckin basic act of cleaning someones home from mold.
All I can tell you is coir is a not mold-proof, beyond that it's up to other people to fill you in. I do know when you buy coir you're not getting 100% husk material and there are other inclusions. I've found all sorts of shit in Beats Peat and like bod says, these things are made with very little quality control. (He was referring to weight but you get the idea).
If you got a house full of mold clean that regardless of what you do as a hobby.
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One of Us
Stranger



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Re: Room air purification [Re: starbones] 2
#26985138 - 10/14/20 01:20 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mold can grow on concrete and sheet metal because of the dust on them. If those areas were clean, mold wouldn't grow on them.
Mold grows on coir in hydroponic systems because: 1 the coir used for hydro is supplemented with extra trich spores, because 2 it grows on the roots and benefits the root system. It is mycorrhizal. It is parasitic to other fungi but beneficial to plants. Pure coir is very resistant to trich. The trich either grows on other myc or on plant roots in the case of ponics.
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Camera93
We got dicks like Jesus



Registered: 08/15/18
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Last seen: 10 days, 11 hours
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Re: Room air purification [Re: starbones]
#26985145 - 10/14/20 01:23 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said:
Quote:
Camera93 said: Starnoob, are you implying that clean spawn, spawned to bulk has the potential to succumb to mold from an areas spore load?
the appearing "wetter" is condensation created from the heat that myc produces, in jar or on plate
Starting off with an insult is pretty awful of you.
I didn't insult anyone, I just stated a question
Quote:
starbones said:
I'm absolutely stating this yes because coir is not mold proof, it's mold resistant and you're playing a game of numbers at all times. When those numbers wander upwards you're increasing the chance for coir to mold.
Hence the importance of clean spawn...
its just odd, you would think the boards would have loads of documented experiences of otherwise healthy subs giving way to mold
what I have seen on the boards are example of tubs and bags side by side with 1 triched out and the other flushing along nicely :
Quote:
Boogieman47 said:
Another reason I love these bags .. notice anything?? Second flush
No one is trying to argue against living in a healthy environment, but this is mush cult not Physical and Mental Well-Being the focus here is rainbow farming.
-------------------- All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I’m fine. Whatever you decide won’t really impact our survival Close your eyes, and do the best that you can
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meowjinx
Stranger

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Re: Room air purification [Re: One of Us]
#26985148 - 10/14/20 01:24 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Camera93 said: Starnoob, are you implying that clean spawn, spawned to bulk has the potential to succumb to mold from an areas spore load?
the appearing "wetter" is condensation created from the heat that myc produces, in jar or on plate
This could be tested experimentally. Get a moldy, sporulating monotub and lay down fully-colonized pastyplates (or any form of agar plate) and place them inside the monotub w/ FAE allowed between the agar plate and the sporulating mold tub. You could add a small amount coir to the top of the colonized agar too. Only hitch is that you would need to be sure the agar plate is actually clean
As long as there's no physical contact between the mold and the mycelium then we can be sure that it's the mold's spores germinating and not the mold mycelium itself. It would be sort of like putting BRF cakes inside a SGFC. Except it would be agar plates inside of a moldy tub
Not that I actually think anyone will ever attempt such a weirdass experiment. Just saying that if we're all gonna call what we do "mycology" and not just mushroom-growing then we should use the scientific method to answer specific questions
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Vylie
The more you know

Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: Room air purification *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: starbones]
#26985152 - 10/14/20 01:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Vylie
Reason for deletion: ...
Edited by Vylie (10/14/20 01:31 PM)
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
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Re: Room air purification [Re: Camera93]
#26985169 - 10/14/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Camera93 said:
I didn't insult anyone, I just stated a question
Quote:
Camera93 said: Starnoob, "
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Camera93
We got dicks like Jesus



Registered: 08/15/18
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Re: Room air purification [Re: starbones]
#26985174 - 10/14/20 01:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said:
Quote:
Camera93 said:
I didn't insult anyone, I just stated a question
Quote:
Camera93 said: Starnoob, "

I honestly apologize for that! The post above me had your name as such and I didn't scroll up higher to see your post with name and it went over my head that it was an insult I am sorry
-------------------- All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I’m fine. Whatever you decide won’t really impact our survival Close your eyes, and do the best that you can
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
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Re: Room air purification [Re: Camera93]
#26985198 - 10/14/20 01:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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All good now you see why I gave josex the rating I did. I have no doubt he's a smart person but his attitude and insults are the most elitist head-up-ass-ignorant garbage. He gas-lit the OP about the OPs apparent attitude while simultaneously having an absolutely rancid one himself. Nothing but dismissive, passive aggressive and insulting towards the OP, myself and I'm sure if he hadn't picked up his ball and gone home for the second time now someone else would be on the receiving end of it.
I really fucking need to reiterate that I'm not claiming mold in monotub does not originate from unclean spawn. I'm saying that claims are being made in this thread that aren't true. That coir is mold-proof, that airborne spores cannot be a source of contamination etc.
If people really want to die on this hill that coir is now completely contaminate proof from airborne mold I'll take that bet and the next time I get a jar of green I'll fill three shoeboxes and place them in an 86qt monotub. One shoebox with nothing but contaminated oats, one shoebox with clean spawned mixed with coir and one shoebox with nothing but coir.
I guarantee you inside of a week it's all completely fucked.
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footpath
ὕδωρχοίρος

Registered: 07/16/19
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Re: Room air purification [Re: starbones] 1
#26985206 - 10/14/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vylie said:
And what about the parasitic species that cannot be out-competed since they grow on the desired mycelium?
Let me note it again that six of seven Amazonian, fully colonized, already fruiting PF-cakes developed Trich and green mold. The Trich came first.
Why would something that grows on a specific host be growing on something other than the specific host? Sure, it could have spores or endospores in/on any given media, but the idea is that you grow out your culture before it can germinate/replicate enough to impede your culture. Just like every other contamination.
You're almost 100% guaranteed to not have clean spawn with PF-Tek because you most likely used a spore syringe, which is nothing remotely close to the process of culturing and eliminating competition to ensure clean spawn. Your source had whatever presented itself later in the substrate. You saying, 'the trich came first', just means you had "trich" in with your spore solution... which is nothing new at all.
I believe the persistence of your issue is that you are not adequately cleaning your cultures on agar before adding them to grain. As the majority has said.
Of course a clean, more-mold-free house is nice and more habitable. But it is not the root cause of your issue.
Ultimately, you have to remove and replace any building materials that are mold-compromised to really do an adequate job of remediation. But, to keep them at bay... • Do a borax rub - mix enough water with enough borax to make a paste and spread it on the infected areas. • Add dehumidifiers to those compromised areas - don't skimp on this... consumer-grade dehumidifiers are only so effective. You'll want industrial from a brand like Santa Fe to really be sure that it's performing adequately. • Once the borax-rubbed areas have sufficiently dried, cover them with a mold-resistant paint like Zinsser (Kilz is water-based, so I tend to not recommend it.) • If necessary (in areas such as unfinished crawl spaces), you'll want to encapsulate your area in a thick (12mm) poly-film with a moisture felt underneath. Adequate airflow, low RH%, and light usually are your best friends in keeping mold from growing/sporulating. Otherwise, to do it right - rip shit out.
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One of Us
Stranger



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Re: Room air purification [Re: Vylie]
#26985211 - 10/14/20 01:58 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
One of Us said: It is parasitic to other fungi but beneficial to plants. Pure coir is very resistant to trich. The trich either grows on other myc or on plant roots in the case of ponics.
That’s why it makes no sense to blindly shout "It’s your spawn!" when the contamination is parasitic.
100% colonization may even help it grow.
Not if it was healthy. Healthy myc can fight it off.
If the myc in the spawn is growing weakly due to bacteria as I mentioned earlier, then the trich can take over.
Similarly, with clean spawn, the trich doesn't show up until after later flushes when the myc is less vigorous.
Clean air is good, but not necessary for one or two flushes ,where most of the yield is anyway. If you want 4-6 flushes then maybe you should look at cleaning your air.
Also, less spores is better for your health
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Vylie
The more you know

Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: Room air purification *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: footpath]
#26985266 - 10/14/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Vylie
Reason for deletion: ...
Edited by Vylie (10/14/20 02:36 PM)
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
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Re: Room air purification [Re: Vylie]
#26985293 - 10/14/20 02:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cleaning the carpet is one idea but removing carpet is a much better one. I don't mean because of your situation I mean in general.
Carpets are bullshit in general. Just a breeding ground for dust mites and all sorts of other breathable garbage. This is a conversation for the DIY/Home Improvement section though.
Fuck me I once removed carpet from an unsealed basement slab and it had become so infested with all sorts of nasty shit that while rolling it up to bag this black ooze of decomposing/decomposing organic material was seeping out of it. That ended up being a gut job all the way to the foundation.
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Gan
Wielder of Narya



Registered: 08/26/19
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Re: Room air purification [Re: Gan]
#26985326 - 10/14/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'll quote again something I said earlier in the thread, as it is more relevant now even than when I first said it.
Quote:
To be fair, often times the issue is people think they have no issues with their grain jars, but in reality they're not 100% clean and they just dont see it. In their mind, they were perfect jars, so "it must be something else... it can't be my spawn."
The reason I said this was not meant to be an insult of any kind. It's just the truth and part of learning the hobby. The reason why you will see me saying "check your spawn" on posts like this is simply due to the fact that the majority of the time that is where the primary problem (notice the underline) is. And once again, that rings true with this post as it does seem that your spawn is less than ideal.
You were asking for how myself and others can tell so that you can learn:
Quote:

- The amount of moisture is the most obvious clue with these jars. As you've said, myc does indeed cause a little condensation as it colonizes and that is to be expected. However, when there is as much moisture as is seen in these pictures it can mean a bacterial infection is present. Additionally, grain that is that wet will not foster an optimal environment so your myc may colonize it but it won't be as healthy as it should be nor will it be as vigorous as you would like. This lack of health can cause it to be more vulnerable to contaminants.
- For the middle jar, the thickness of the myc is concerning to me. The fact that I can't see any of the individual grains at all and that there is no "texture" to the jar. Almost just a large glob of mycelium, instead of a sheet of myc draped over the grains, still allowing you to see some individual grains and the nooks and crannies between the grains. I hope that makes sense. Although, with WBS I will say that myc typically engulfs the individual grains more than it does with larger grain sizes, so it can look a little thicker. Also, how it's shrinking and receding from the edges of the jars is not ideal.
- Conversely, the thin looking feature of the myc on the left and right jars let me know that the myc isn't nearly as strong and healthy as it should be. Once again, this could have a lot to do with the amount of moisture. Let your grains dry out a lot. Especially with oats. You will not lose your moisture on the inside of your grain (and that's where it matters), but you will allow the outside to dry off a lot.
There obviously are many other factors but I can't type a book. You'll learn them as you go.
Honestly, the jar you posted of the rye looks much better. I couldn't say if it is clean without a picture of it once it hits full colonization, cause sometimes nasties can hide until the end.
As odd as it may sound, some extra mold spores in your grow space may actually be causing you problems because your spawn isn't clean and healthy enough to fight it off like it should be able to. Get your cultures cleaned up and I think you'll notice a world of difference. It took me a while to train my eye to spot clean growth and I still have stuff slip by me all the time. Either due to laziness, lack of observance, or having no prior experience with that issue.
I say "check your spawn" not because there aren't other factors that can cause problems, but because good spawn is the foundation. Once you dial that in, you may notice 90% of your contam problems go away (unless you are fruiting in a real shit place). Then you can focus on the final 10% to perfect everything. In the meantime, sure grab an air filter. Even if it doesn't help your grow, it'll help your lungs and peace of mind.
Good luck and stick with it
Edited by Gan (10/14/20 03:09 PM)
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One of Us
Stranger



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Re: Room air purification [Re: Vylie]
#26985351 - 10/14/20 03:07 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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And if time is money, you would realize it is much more efficient use of space and time to toss a tub after 2-3 flushes, because this is like 90%+ of you yield. True efficiency is replacing those tubs after 2-3 flushes and replacing with other fresh tubs ready for their first flush. If you spawn every week, you'll eventually be harvesting every week. If you spawn every day you'll eventually be harvesting every day, etc.
Tossing jars is a waste of time, but it can be completely avoided if your grain prep and sterile technique are perfected.
I used to have a situation similar to josex's. My porch/entry room had a terrible leak (literally like a waterfall when it rained). The walls were always moist and literally every square inch was covered in sporulating mold. Mushrooms grew from the floorboards.
Now I didn't cult in this room, but I did have to walk through it every time I entered the house, bringing spores with me on my clothes. I was worried about that room preventing me from cultivating, but never lost a tub without a flush first. That is, until I first introduced trich into my house, but I fixed my grain prep and rusty jar lids that wouldn't twist on more than a quarter inch, and now that is a thing of the past. Before that, I lost EVERY SINGLE TUB to trich during or before the first flush.
Also, you don't have to toss the jars completely. You can spawn them to their own shoeboxes in a 1:1 ratio and still get some fruits. This is what I did until I figured out my errors.
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Vylie
The more you know

Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: Room air purification *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Gan]
#26985370 - 10/14/20 03:20 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Vylie
Reason for deletion: ...
Edited by Vylie (10/14/20 03:31 PM)
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Vylie
The more you know

Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: Room air purification *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: One of Us]
#26985389 - 10/14/20 03:31 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Vylie
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Room air purification [Re: Vylie]
#26985403 - 10/14/20 03:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Any monotub tek says dial it in. You did the teks wrong if your tubs get too much FAE. Which is the easiest problem to fix. Restrict the holes
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footpath
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Registered: 07/16/19
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Re: Room air purification [Re: Vylie]
#26985407 - 10/14/20 03:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I dunno where you live, but, in a lot of places, it's illegal to rent out moldy housing... Rather, landowners have the legal obligation to remediate mold as part of Use and Occupancy laws. I know drawing in your landlord/lady is generally the last thing you want to do when engaging in the illicit, but it could be a way to remedy your air quality situation at no cost to you. Although, depending on the owner, a lot of them will just say, 'fuck it, I'll rent to someone who doesn't complain me into $1000's in mold remediation.' Just a thought. It could be as simple as postponing your cultivation for a couple months. But it could jeopardize your stability.
Obviously, giving reason for your landlord/lady to scrutinize your living in their property isn't always the best, but, depending on the individual... they might have the incentive or decency to work with you. But, if your main concern is growing, keep quiet and work on that clean spawn.
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