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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: laughingdog]
#26975002 - 10/08/20 07:06 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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if an ai can feel pain, will that change how they view and treat themselves, and view and treat humans? - pain that is not just physical, but also psychological, and spiritual. same thing about dying, if an ai can die, will they view or treat themselves and/or humans differently?
it’s hard to imagine what ai morality might look like. humans, being a product of the culture devised by humans, will ai be a product of culture devised by ai? what does an ai reacting in a way that it feels comfortable with its environment look like? can an ai have autonomy - to freely choose and evaluate options and act the way they choose to?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26975063 - 10/08/20 08:05 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Imagine a dog.
does a dog have morality?
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26975225 - 10/08/20 10:21 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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i’m not sure, i’ve never been a dog
can they make and act on a decision the way that they choose to?
when a dog protects a human life, are they doing that because that’s what they’ve been programmed to do?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26975232 - 10/08/20 10:27 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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nobody programmed a dog, any dog training is task oriented, however, dogs do have behaviors that can be considered compassionate and or moral. if you don't have any dog, and don't get to watch them in action, try you tube videos.
the dog's mind body experience is quite palpable.
to me this suggests that an ai with body awareness could also be moral.
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26975589 - 10/08/20 02:21 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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the only way i could know the conscious intentions of a dog is to become one, or interview one directly, otherwise i’m just making assumptions about their behavior.
it seems like animals experience pain, but we have no way of knowing if they conceptualize it the way humans do.
when an ai with a body, embedded with pain receptors experiences physical pain, how similar would this be to the human experience of physical pain? how much is human physical pain actually a psychological experience?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26975690 - 10/08/20 03:21 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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yes pain can be a touchy subject in itself for many reasons, especially mental pain from stretching and trying to hold on too tightly, but those pitfalls of intelligent consciousness come with the territory.
what do you think of this?
https://live.staticflickr.com/video/50436298643/5e3f6e71fe/720p.mp4?s=eyJpIjo1MDQzNjI5ODY0MywiZSI6MTYwMjE5Mjc1NywicyI6ImMxMTViYmNiNjIzZDZkYzIwN2U0YmYyMTgzMGZlNzQ0YTliYTkwMjIiLCJ2IjoxfQ
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26975710 - 10/08/20 03:38 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
thealienthatategod said: .... how much is human physical pain actually a psychological experience?
. No intellectual answers will take you here **, as far as I can tell. We could make up theories, saying pain is all in the head,because we can suffer in a dream, when the body is fine. . But when it comes to putting the theory, to the test, while awake its a whole different matter. Torture is used for a reason. And no sci-fi fantasies about AI & pain, will do diddly in the real world, as far as I can tell. . How & why these folks do what they do, I have no idea; and I doubt making up answers will ever be satisfying.
** https://duckduckgo.com/?q=suspension+hooks+piercing&t=h_&iax=images&ia=images
or here
**
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: laughingdog]
#26975792 - 10/08/20 04:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said: ...We could make up theories, saying pain is all in the head, because we can suffer in a dream, when the body is fine. ...
ya, but the dream pain is made of memories of real pain. so both a fresh pain experience and reliving a pain experience are painful.
this is interesting. and since we know that if we want to get away from something in the mind, it serves no use to attempt running away - since the object of the escape this pain idea itself brings the memory of body pain associations connected to it. - attempting to escape pain may involve cringing or tensing up and this intensifies the pain cycle as well, associating the painful body cringe that the person has to deal with later - the specific cringe becomes gesturally equated to the whole horrible matter. - so either sit through the life cycle of the pain without reacting defensively, or fall into the hall of mirrors. - often if you can transcend the initial cringe during the recollection, then the recollection begins to hurt less and less. (the cringe being associative body reaction, while the original body pain becomes a mere shadow of discomfort)
still pain is real, and animals have it - and they also show signs of cringing and PTSD if they have been subjected to abuse.
dream pain can be a good thing to reflect on, as it may connect to underlying body health or be an opportunity to explore old trauma that you were not previously ready to address.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26976009 - 10/08/20 07:33 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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. I only know of one way, that some people, increase their ability to deal with some pain. What the people in the pictures do, or how Jack even avoided bleeding & infection I have no idea. . As you rightly say: "and since we know that if we want to get away from something in the mind, it serves no use to attempt running away"... . Likewise, what I know of, is the vipassana methodology of 'becoming one with', or 'non resisting'. Shinzen explains it in some pdfs on his site I think. & possibly on Youtube. One can practice this method with things like minor pains and see how it works. To become a little calmer in the face of minor adversity is something many can do with some practice. I have no great talent for this and so refer anyone interested to Shinzen Young or Dr. Fehmi, with his similar "open focus" method. The principle is sound, but like many things our talents and obstacles vary greatly, so our results, in this regard, will also. Even a little progress however, means a life with a bit less stress.
Edited by laughingdog (10/08/20 07:52 PM)
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26982805 - 10/13/20 06:22 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: thealienthatategod]
#26982935 - 10/13/20 08:30 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26983061 - 10/13/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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it gives better time...
and you know what that means
(cause our time is not bad or negative)
AND activates the mind like mushrooms weed and medication
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26983355 - 10/13/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: how about this ? https://www.nikonsmallworld.com/
go fish!
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