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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26970209 - 10/05/20 07:14 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

are human beings even capable of creating artificial intelligences that can have the same moral staus as themselves?

can an artifical intelligence be wronged by a human?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26970230 - 10/05/20 07:55 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

we have babies,
some f them are more moral and some less moral than their parents.
are any of us intelligent, or is it all just a big pretense.

well I do think we can do better but not yet. we have a lot of cleaning up from our past mistakes on this planet.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26970346 - 10/05/20 10:00 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: Rahz]
    #26970374 - 10/05/20 10:25 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
https://phys.org/news/2020-01-bot-beast-scientists-programmable.html

Biological AI



life forms with purpose - possibly controlled by AI, certainly designed with the help of AI. probably genetically modified mouse-human cells. but could be any original source stem cells - chosen for the target work environment.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26970960 - 10/05/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Re: thealienthatategod's question(s)

.    Morality seems to me a human construct.
About 50% of animals are parasitic, and a large percentage are prey animals, ie.
their fate is to be eaten alive.
Of those living creatures that are not animals (bacteria, prions, viruses, & fungi etc.) many are also a source of painful diseases.
Then for the sake of completeness there are carnivorous plants.
99.99...% of creatures die ** and if they are lucky enough to reach old age, it is a slow experience of all systems breaking down and decaying, often painful.

.  Religions, even Buddhism try to convince people, that morality is an intrinsic necessity.
Society does the same with laws, police, prisons, & a "justice" system.

.    When we look at both biology and natural disasters, it obvious that there is no evidence of compassion what so ever, in the natural world. We get sentimental over mammals nursing their young, and cuddling.  But this necessary instinctual behavior is not representative, of how life works. Also we spend great effort to romanticize human mating, which is of course actually also instinctual, and often also results longterm in all sorts of suffering, (of which both the courts, prisons, psychologists' offices, hospitals, & orphanages are full).

.    Given this, to think, hypothetical AI, would indulge in such a bogus concept as 'morality', seems the same type of projection we find in human ideas of what "God must be like".

.    Of course someone might want to play around with a crippled AI, that thinks it is an Angel. But it would of course constantly be confronted with impossible choices. We see this already, when engineers try to decide how to program a self driving car when it must choose between who to run over, in a chaotic situation. Life is inherently messy, chaotic, paradoxical, painful, & incomprehensible & ironic. The whole fantasy of AI, just like religion, is really just an attempt to get away from this truth while denying that, that is what one is really doing.


**(a few plants produce clones, & a few jelly fish & hydra etc do strange things)


Edited by laughingdog (10/05/20 05:22 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26971052 - 10/05/20 06:20 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

that's a bit darker than necessarily true-ish.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26971082 - 10/05/20 06:38 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Wasn't trying to please the crowd.
You are welcome to believe whatever you find comforting, as far as I'm concerned.
Seems, I'm long past the point, of cultivating comforting beliefs.

Now if I had something that really worked like a life time supply of medically pure painkillers, I might be tempted to take the edge off...but that would of course be precisely because to use your word, nature is rather darker, than Disney likes to paint it.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26971124 - 10/05/20 07:03 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:

Seems, I'm long past the point, of cultivating comforting beliefs.






Because you are already comfortable?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: Rahz]
    #26971188 - 10/05/20 07:51 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:

Seems, I'm long past the point, of cultivating comforting beliefs.






Because you are already comfortable?



I am getting the sense that it is opposite, note clear reference to pain killers.
something is hurtin' big time.

@ laughingdog
sorry to hear about pain. chronic?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? *DELETED* [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26971286 - 10/05/20 08:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by laughingdog

Reason for deletion: post get duplicated


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26971300 - 10/05/20 08:48 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

.    Nope i'm not in pain.
.    I just remember 'the good stuff' from the sixties.
.  Drugs were  not main point of the post anyway

.    And yes I am psychologically comfortable with a secular view of the universe, which sees it as amoral and indifferent and devoid of any God, or Gods.
And find the idea of any entities that give a shit about humans, or their prayers even more absurd. This includes "the devil".
.    Whereas there seems ample evidence that humans project what they can't face. Starting with kids believing there are monsters under the bed, onto homophobia, and now fantasies about "AI", or "the singularity".
.    Of course in reality it is humans that are daily making the planet less livable for themselves.


Edited by laughingdog (10/06/20 03:48 PM)


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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26971670 - 10/06/20 07:43 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Sometimes I feel like I am artificial unintelligence. Sometimes I just feel artificial.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: Warrk]
    #26971753 - 10/06/20 09:02 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

most of our intelligence is a show - performance related, especially here, no real work is being done, except maybe harm reduction from drugs


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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26971804 - 10/06/20 09:53 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

True that rgv, and work is not the only thing that is of merit. We're all show ponies trying to mask our inadequacies with seemingly impressive thoughts and ideas.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: Warrk]
    #26971936 - 10/06/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

or, sharing views that really do improve the life experiences of others.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: Warrk]
    #26972446 - 10/06/20 04:08 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Warrk said:
Sometimes I feel like I am artificial unintelligence. ...




Me too. Some folks get lucky with their genes -- from twitter:

"Richard Dawkins@RichardDawkins
·
4h
Many congratulations to Roger Penrose on winning the Nobel Prize for physics.  Brilliant mathematician and theoretical physicist.

Very distinguished family. Brother is a chess grandmaster.  Another brother is a Fellow of the Royal Society. Father was a great geneticist."


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26972738 - 10/06/20 06:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

We need holodecks and we need them now!

:protest:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26972857 - 10/06/20 08:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Warrk said:
True that rgv, and work is not the only thing that is of merit. We're all show ponies trying to mask our inadequacies with seemingly impressive thoughts and ideas.




I think I was more like that when I was younger. But curiosity is a thing.
Quote:

laughingdog said:
.    Nope i'm not in pain.
.    I just remember 'the good stuff' from the sixties.
.  Drugs were  not main point of the post anyway

.    And yes I am psychologically comfortable with a secular view of the universe, which sees it as amoral and indifferent and devoid of any God, or Gods.
And find the idea of any entities that give a shit about humans, or their prayers even more absurd. This includes "the devil".
.    Whereas there seems ample evidence that humans project what they can't face. Starting with kids believing there are monsters under the bed, onto homophobia, and now fantasies about "AI", or "the singularity".
.    Of course in reality it is humans that are daily making the planet less livable for themselves.




But there's also kindness and compassion and empathy. People try to make positive changes. Sometimes they stick. Sometimes people discover that less is more. That desire doesn't generally bring happiness and that happiness is mostly found in the absence of desire. I'm not disagreeing with your world view. I share it. But that fact that it's not generally appealing produces the idea that some form of morality exists, just not as a requirement and not typical though bad news get's most of the air time because it sells.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: Rahz]
    #26973206 - 10/07/20 04:16 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:

But there's also kindness and compassion and empathy.




:whathesaid:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: are artificial intelligences an opportunity for scientific advances while negating moral implications? [Re: Rahz]
    #26974268 - 10/07/20 06:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:


But there's also kindness and compassion and empathy. People try to make positive changes. Sometimes they stick. Sometimes people discover that less is more. That desire doesn't generally bring happiness and that happiness is mostly found in the absence of desire. I'm not disagreeing with your world view. I share it. But that fact that it's not generally appealing produces the idea that some form of morality exists, just not as a requirement and not typical though bad news get's most of the air time because it sells.




.  Yes some humans are kind and sensitive. You are right. And from that we get human ideas of what is good behavior.

.  As regards bad news getting most of the air time, you are again right; but it is selected bad news, as wiki leaks and Edward Snowden showed, in a big way; and alternative outlets like https://www.democracynow.org/ show in a smaller way on a daily basis.
.  The bad news that is preferred is of course murder, general violence, pointless 'mud slinging', and sexual scandal, which is as you say, mainly what sells.

.  As regards good news some may be found here:
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Making-a-difference
and here:
https://happynews.com/


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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