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bob5

Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 1,391
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Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip ><
#26960434 - 09/29/20 02:27 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was so annoyed..
I went through the labourious process of making the tea, drinking the tea. And I was totally sober 2 hours after drinking it. No purge. I got super high for about an hour though. This was my first oral DMT experience, and 4th day in a row taking Syrian Rue. ----------
So I took 3.2g of Syrian Rue boiled the seeds whole in a pressure cooker, three 30minute pulls. Then I took 15g chacruna (I know the dose is considered 'light' but I must have strong chacruna!! it's off a shroomery sponser, it was powerful) I boiled the chacruna seperatley 3x40min pulls in a pressure cooker. -----------
So what happened? I drank the syrian Rue, waited 40minutes, then drank the chacruna brew. About ten minutes later I started coming up fast. It was very intense. I have never broken through, but I have had weird and wonderful 'communicating with .... I guess people seem to call them entities' And I was enjoying all that this time round, for a good hour. But then literally as if I swallowed powdered Alprazolam(or another potent benzo) I was sober. Totally sober, it was like the comedown from mdma, just brutally abrupt.
The experience wasn't the 5 hours I'd heard about, this was maybe just over two hours from drinking the god-awful brew. Why was this do you think? I suspect the MAOI inhibition wore off, but why? I took 3.2g of Syrian Rue tea which I've read is enough to inhibit MAOI, I didn't powder the seeds but it was a strong tea. I felt it, and it worked really well for a bit. {perhaps not enough RUE to inhibit the MAOI for 5hours as I had hoped?..} I am currently taking diazepam and aripirazole... which mess with my high a fair bit --- but I still get high I assure you. I'm on a very low dose of both. So I don't blame them. It really felt as if one minute I was on DMT, and the next someone pulled the plug. So I blame the Syrian Rue wearing off as the culprit for my curtailed DMT experience.
What should I do next time? Higher dosage of Syrian Rue? (I'm tapering off these meds, but it's slow work, I've been on diazepam a long time now)
Cheers, B5
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Sabnock
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: bob5] 1
#26960454 - 09/29/20 02:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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When this has happened to me, it's usually been the DMT dosage, i'd feel it kicking in, i'd be good for like 30 minutes to an hour or so and then it'd just drop off. It could be the MAO-A inhibition but 3 grams of Rue should've been just fine, i don't use Rue in tea form though i use it as powdered seed capsules, so the dosage of Rue should've been fine so long as the tea was brewed properly, the only other thing i could think of would be the time between the Harmalas and the DMT, some people say it works best when taken together, i've always spaced it out 30 minutes to an hour apart, an hour apart is usually best, but again, i use capsules of the Rue, whereas Rue in tea form may have a bit of a different timing situation since it's absorbed faster than the capsules. I would suggest though upping the dose of the DMT and try again, if it happens again, it maybe the Rue tea, either the timing between it and the DMT or the dosage/brewing of the Rue tea.
So long as the Rue is potent, and the timing between it and the DMT is good, the DMT should definitely be orally active, the only thing then is the DMT dosage.
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bob5

Registered: 03/01/09
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: Sabnock]
#26960475 - 09/29/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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So more DMT = a longer trip? I thought it just effected the intensity of the experience.
Yeah that's my thoughts - if it was orally active, I must've got the timing somewhat right. -------------
I think I'm going to experiment with pharmahuasca, as unknown dosages of DMT are crazy and dangerous tbh. If I get a feel for the experience using weighed amounts. Then I'll feel more comfortable experimenting with plant matter dosages. I definitley don't think I could have handled double the dosage I took, it was really intense. But once I know how long the experience can last e.t.c then I will return to traditional ayahuasca brewing, thanks.
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Sabnock
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: bob5]
#26960651 - 09/29/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bob5 said: So more DMT = a longer trip? I thought it just effected the intensity of the experience.
Yeah that's my thoughts - if it was orally active, I must've got the timing somewhat right. -------------
I think I'm going to experiment with pharmahuasca, as unknown dosages of DMT are crazy and dangerous tbh. If I get a feel for the experience using weighed amounts. Then I'll feel more comfortable experimenting with plant matter dosages. I definitley don't think I could have handled double the dosage I took, it was really intense. But once I know how long the experience can last e.t.c then I will return to traditional ayahuasca brewing, thanks.
Well not necessarily, the duration depends on two things, the Rue/Harmala dosage, and the DMT dosage. You can have a pretty full on dosage of the Rue, yet take like 1 to 3 grams of Mimosa root and feel the power and intensity of DMT as it's coming up and perhaps a little bit of peak effects but then it just drops off and disappears and you're pretty much back down. Conversely, if you don't take enough Rue, yet you take enough DMT, the experience will also abruptly stop and die down until you feel back to normal.
So it can be a little tricky figuring out what's not going right, but i would say that if you're confident the Rue tea was thoroughly brewed, i would take a look at the DMT factor, and raise the DMT dosage a bit more. 3 to 3.5 grams of Rue should be plenty for activating DMT and giving you at least a 3 to 4 hour experience in terms of the DMT aspect.
Another thing to keep in mind is generally you want to get the Harmala dosage down right first, and then figure out the best timing, so same time or 30 minutes to an hour apart, and then once you know MAO-A is inhibited and the best time to consume DMT at the time of peak gut MAO-A inhibition, then you figure out the DMT dosage. The only issue i can see with that is if one were trying to figure out the dosage while regularly taking the Harmalas because the Harmala dosage does increase due to reverse tolerance and as such the more Harmalas the more potentiation of DMT occurs so in the end more Harmalas = less DMT needed, a little can go a long way. But if one is experimenting to find the dosage like once a week, shouldn't have to worry about the reverse tolerance i wouldn't think.
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Pandemoon
Ἧeẍeᾐmeḭsṫeŗ ͛


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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: Sabnock]
#26961665 - 09/30/20 09:27 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Harmalas have a half-life of 3 hours in humans. Means three hours after ingestion they already got broken down to half the ammount. Another three hours later it's only a quarter of the initial dose in your system.
Maybe the rue dose was too low? If it's just right the ammount to activate oral dmt, then the experience will be short, because within one hour or so the harmalas get broken down to an ammount that is no longer able to activate dmt.
200mg of pure harmalas is a solid dose, that fully inhibits mao. Rue has like 5% harmala alkaloids, a tea extracts only 3 to 4 %, at max. 3 to 4 percent of 3g is 90 to 120mg only.
3g of rue is like 1.5g after three hours, so after one hour it's like 2g. 2g is a bit low, maybe too low to really keep the dmt activated.
You can always redose some rue tea throughout the experience, to keep it going for longer. 
-
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: bob5]
#26961784 - 09/30/20 10:58 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bob5 said: I was so annoyed..
I went through the labourious process of making the tea, drinking the tea. And I was totally sober 2 hours after drinking it. No purge. I got super high for about an hour though. This was my first oral DMT experience, and 4th day in a row taking Syrian Rue. ----------
So I took 3.2g of Syrian Rue boiled the seeds whole in a pressure cooker, three 30minute pulls. Then I took 15g chacruna (I know the dose is considered 'light' but I must have strong chacruna!! it's off a shroomery sponser, it was powerful) I boiled the chacruna seperatley 3x40min pulls in a pressure cooker. -----------
So what happened? I drank the syrian Rue, waited 40minutes, then drank the chacruna brew. About ten minutes later I started coming up fast. It was very intense. I have never broken through, but I have had weird and wonderful 'communicating with .... I guess people seem to call them entities' And I was enjoying all that this time round, for a good hour. But then literally as if I swallowed powdered Alprazolam(or another potent benzo) I was sober. Totally sober, it was like the comedown from mdma, just brutally abrupt.
The experience wasn't the 5 hours I'd heard about, this was maybe just over two hours from drinking the god-awful brew. Why was this do you think? I suspect the MAOI inhibition wore off, but why? I took 3.2g of Syrian Rue tea which I've read is enough to inhibit MAOI, I didn't powder the seeds but it was a strong tea. I felt it, and it worked really well for a bit. {perhaps not enough RUE to inhibit the MAOI for 5hours as I had hoped?..} I am currently taking diazepam and aripirazole... which mess with my high a fair bit --- but I still get high I assure you. I'm on a very low dose of both. So I don't blame them. It really felt as if one minute I was on DMT, and the next someone pulled the plug. So I blame the Syrian Rue wearing off as the culprit for my curtailed DMT experience.
Cheers, B5
No, no the DMT/Anahuasca experience will not last anywhere close to 5 hours even if you have a full-on dose or even overdose. It is about 2 hours max, though there will be lingering effects for many hours. But when you have a few powerful experiences you'll be thankful that it doesn't last 5 hours, as even 2 hours in hyperspace is an insane amount of time!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Sabnock
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: wolf8312]
#26961995 - 09/30/20 12:51 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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For personally, the oral DMT effects last 4 to 5 hours, from ingestion to when it wears off, depending on dosages, the Rue effects usually last me 6 hours with a moderate dosage, to 8 to 10 hours or longer as the Harmala dosage increases. So for a proper experience, the bulk of the effects usually end up starting in the 2nd hour of the Rue and easing up in the tail end of the 5th hour, so usually about 4 hours of main effects, sometimes 5 hours.
Oral DMT definitely lasts 4 to 5 hours in total, with proper MAO-A inhibition and a proper DMT dosage. The Rue can last anywhere from 6, to 8 to 10 up to 12 hours, depending on dosage, the main effects may last a few hours but from ingestion to come down i'm usually in hour 6 or 7 by time i eat and head to bed, sometimes it's hour 8 or 9 when i head to bed.
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wolf8312
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: Sabnock]
#26962072 - 09/30/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sabnock said: For personally, the oral DMT effects last 4 to 5 hours, from ingestion to when it wears off, depending on dosages, the Rue effects usually last me 6 hours with a moderate dosage, to 8 to 10 hours or longer as the Harmala dosage increases. So for a proper experience, the bulk of the effects usually end up starting in the 2nd hour of the Rue and easing up in the tail end of the 5th hour, so usually about 4 hours of main effects, sometimes 5 hours.
Oral DMT definitely lasts 4 to 5 hours in total, with proper MAO-A inhibition and a proper DMT dosage. The Rue can last anywhere from 6, to 8 to 10 up to 12 hours, depending on dosage, the main effects may last a few hours but from ingestion to come down i'm usually in hour 6 or 7 by time i eat and head to bed, sometimes it's hour 8 or 9 when i head to bed.
I only really mean the main part of the experience to be honest, but for myself even with 3 grams of raw rue and very high doses of light the main experience was over after a couple of hours or 2, even if I went to full on hyperspace with full MAO Inhibition. Definitely a much shorter experience than mushrooms for me personally which in turn were of much shorter duration than LSD.
The first time I went to hyperspace I was actually terrified because I too used to think that when people said '5 hours' that it meant I would be held in full on hyperspace for a full five hours but thankfully the main experience was nowhere near that long for me! It ends quite abruptly as well, though I could still feel the rue working away behind the scenes that the spirits had just vacated. Strange feeling actually because one could see how much of the experience was due to the rue itself. But I never really counted that as the main experience, there was no real come down, and the tail end of the experience was basically irrelevant compared to something like LSD.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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igorcarajo
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: Sabnock]
#26962299 - 09/30/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sabnock said: For personally, the oral DMT effects last 4 to 5 hours, from ingestion to when it wears off, depending on dosages, the Rue effects usually last me 6 hours with a moderate dosage, to 8 to 10 hours or longer as the Harmala dosage increases. So for a proper experience, the bulk of the effects usually end up starting in the 2nd hour of the Rue and easing up in the tail end of the 5th hour, so usually about 4 hours of main effects, sometimes 5 hours.
Oral DMT definitely lasts 4 to 5 hours in total, with proper MAO-A inhibition and a proper DMT dosage. The Rue can last anywhere from 6, to 8 to 10 up to 12 hours, depending on dosage, the main effects may last a few hours but from ingestion to come down i'm usually in hour 6 or 7 by time i eat and head to bed, sometimes it's hour 8 or 9 when i head to bed.
What effects do you get from rue alone? I have taken up to 250 mg of rue alkaloids and didn’t feel anything. Or does the rue affect you differently if you take DMT with it?
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Sabnock
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: igorcarajo]
#26962345 - 09/30/20 03:49 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
igorcarajo said: What effects do you get from rue alone? I have taken up to 250 mg of rue alkaloids and didn’t feel anything. Or does the rue affect you differently if you take DMT with it?
The Rue taken alone will give you tracers/trailing, pronounced sedation and relaxation, maybe vomiting, an anti-depressant effect, a bit of a different perception, some mental imagery, auditory enhancement, sometimes things sound faster or slower, eyesight is a bit different, and some insights do pop up now and then. Rue's other effects really come out more when mixed with a Psychedelic or even Cannabis. Also the actual seed is much more efficient and effective compared to the extract, the extract works pretty well but the seed itself has more to offer.
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Sabnock
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: wolf8312]
#26962360 - 09/30/20 03:58 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said: I only really mean the main part of the experience to be honest, but for myself even with 3 grams of raw rue and very high doses of light the main experience was over after a couple of hours or 2, even if I went to full on hyperspace with full MAO Inhibition. Definitely a much shorter experience than mushrooms for me personally which in turn were of much shorter duration than LSD.
The first time I went to hyperspace I was actually terrified because I too used to think that when people said '5 hours' that it meant I would be held in full on hyperspace for a full five hours but thankfully the main experience was nowhere near that long for me! It ends quite abruptly as well, though I could still feel the rue working away behind the scenes that the spirits had just vacated. Strange feeling actually because one could see how much of the experience was due to the rue itself. But I never really counted that as the main experience, there was no real come down, and the tail end of the experience was basically irrelevant compared to something like LSD.
Well for me, the come up of oral DMT is about 45 minutes to an hour, then peak effects for like 2 to 3 hours, and then the come down which isn't even really a come down so much as it is a drifting away of DMT's effects, so like it just gently wears off and then leaves me feeling refreshed and rejuvenated. But in total with both Rue and DMT the main bulk of the experience starts in the 2nd hour of the Rue and ends about the 5th or 6th hour of the Rue, so all in all about 3 to 4 hours total of main effects from start to finish.
Just keep in mind that the higher the Rue/Harmala dosage is, the more potentiated and lengthened the DMT part becomes, same thing goes for Psilocin with Psilohuasca. I've heard that the THH in Caapi brews can lengthen the DMT's duration even more because it weakly inhibits the Serotonin transporter and DMT is a substrate for the Serotonin transporter so by inhibiting that with THH as well as MAO-A by the Harmalas, DMT's duration of action should be longer, though i haven't personally tried that out. One may also be able to extend DMT's duration by inhibiting CYP2D6 which metabolizes the Harmalas, therefore lengthening the duration of the Harmalas and thus the DMT as well, but Harmalas themselves already inhibit CYP2D6 which in essence they inhibit their own metabolization which i'm sure comes into play with the Harmala reverse tolerance therefore lengthening the duration of the Harmalas as well as potentiating the dosage of the Harmalas making the Harmala content stronger each time they are consumed when they are consumed regularly.
Alternatively, one could re-dose both the Harmalas and the DMT several times and keep things going, but the timing should probably be worked out so that by the time the first dose of DMT wears off the second one is either already kicking in or is already kicked in. It'd be nice if the guts MAO-A inhibition by the Harmalas lasted for hours so one wouldn't need to consume a second dose of Harmalas and could just consume more DMT, but unfortunately one will need to consume both Harmalas and DMT for a re-dose because the Harmalas gut MAO-A inhibition only lasts about 2 hours ime.
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Typerwritermonky
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: Sabnock]
#26963087 - 09/30/20 11:16 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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^^ I was gonna say, go for some b. caapi instead and see how that treats you.
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bob5

Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 1,391
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Very interesting comments. Thankyou.
I'm going to use extracted full-spectrum harmalas and FB DMT. This way... I will know if my tea tek is working well. I've got uncomfortabley strong effects off 4g of Syrian Rue so I suspect that I'm doing ok with my SR tea. I really enjoyed the 4g, worth noting. But it made me confront some psychological mishaps that i wasn't ready to. I'm glad I had that experience in reterospect however.
Only one way to say for sure. Documentation. Pen and paper right down effects and duration at those 3 dosages above. Then add 10mg DMT to the low dose, if that's nothing.... add 10mg DMT to the high harmala dosage{200mg} Then, increase DMT.
Going to be a lot of trial and error... (won't hear me complaining about it though : )
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wolf8312
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: bob5] 1
#26965746 - 10/02/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Personally my sweet spot was around 3 grams of rue, though maybe 2 grams raw (of course it depends on the seeds).
The interesting thing is how dramatically different the experiences can be when shifting the ratios, and there is definately a sweet spot for everyone. Too much rue gets really icky whereas take too little and the effects will die out too quickly or never really get started.
But I have to say slightly larger doses of rue than is recommended combined with DMT can make for a very interesting experience with its own distinct character though I once tried Syrian rue alone at a high dose 5 or ten grams (can't remember) and gah never again!
Syrian rue is though a truly profound teacher so always avoid extracts and go full spectrum.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (10/02/20 12:24 PM)
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Ganja420Boy
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: wolf8312]
#26966188 - 10/02/20 04:00 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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When I first tried Syrian rue seed tea I used like 2 or 3 grams and smoked some DMT , I barely noticed a difference.
A week later I made a 10g tea waited an hour. Before the hour was up I was slightly tripping off the seeds alone.
My suggestion is try taking more and wait a full hour then consume the DMT.
--------------------
....Synthesized love story or is it just a crazy dream....
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bob5

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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: Ganja420Boy]
#26966983 - 10/03/20 05:54 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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How about a full-spectrum extract.? Does that still maintain it's character? I like the appeal of extracts, as it can be consistent, and I really don't want to overdo a ayahuasca experience.
I'm going to see how high a dose I can tolerate of syrian Rue. This is probably where I'll then start to add tiny bits of DMT to see how they interact.
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igorcarajo
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: Sabnock]
#26968554 - 10/04/20 05:00 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sabnock said: i don't use Rue in tea form though i use it as powdered seed capsules
Raw seeds? Toasted? If toasted, how long at what temperature? What’s your preferred dose of rue seed to go with oral DMT? Do you use powdered seeds instead of tea because you think it’s superior or because that’s just the way you adopted? Thanks.
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Sabnock
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: igorcarajo]
#26968805 - 10/04/20 09:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
igorcarajo said:
Quote:
Sabnock said: i don't use Rue in tea form though i use it as powdered seed capsules
Raw seeds? Toasted? If toasted, how long at what temperature? What’s your preferred dose of rue seed to go with oral DMT? Do you use powdered seeds instead of tea because you think it’s superior or because that’s just the way you adopted? Thanks.
I usually use raw seed powder in capsules. I have used toasted Rue seed in capsules as well, and it can be good no doubt, but i think i prefer the raw seed over toasted. The way i toast the Rue seed is by preheating the oven to 350 degrees f and toasting the whole seed for about 20 minutes, but i usually toast in bulk, like 100 grams or so of seed. Then when it's done i grind it up in a coffee grinder and encapsulate the powder. You can try experimenting around with the temp and time when toasting, but be aware that over toasting/heating them may decrease potency, idk for sure if it does but i think i've noticed some potency decrease when i've over-heated or burned them accidentally. As far as dosage goes, i usually use 3 to 4.5 grams of the Rue, i prefer 4 to 4.5 grams but it's pretty strong, 3 to 3.5 grams is fine though. I use powdered seed because i don't want to taste it, primarily, i haven't tried tea but a few times, but the seed powder capsules kick in fine and can hit hard and fully so i've seen no reason to use tea.
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bob5

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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: Sabnock]
#26972389 - 10/06/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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dont they make you really sick? I've seen others mention that consuming the seeds themselves is nauseating. Whereas the tea or extracted harmalas isn't as bad.
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Sabnock
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Re: Syrian Rue wore off mid ayahusca trip >< [Re: bob5]
#26972677 - 10/06/20 06:12 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bob5 said: dont they make you really sick? I've seen others mention that consuming the seeds themselves is nauseating. Whereas the tea or extracted harmalas isn't as bad.
Harmalas in general are purgatives, they can make you nauseous and vomit if the dosage is high enough, whether using seeds, teas or extracts. The teas and extracts are less nauseating and less uncomfortable on the gut, but will still make you projectile vomit, no doubt lol. The roasted Rue seed powder capsules however are as gentle on the gut as the teas and extracts are. The raw Rue seed powder capsules can be uncomfortable on the gut, but i've found that grinding it into a fine powder, and taking probiotics, will help relieve the gut discomfort and the nausea, and the probiotics may even help with the vomiting aspect although one can still vomit on occasion with a particularly strong/heavy dosage.
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