Home | Community | Message Board

Magic-Mushrooms-Shop.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do * 1
    #26958836 - 09/28/20 01:30 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Have y'all experienced this? When someone states categorically what's going on inside your head and heart?

How does one deal with this? It's actually one of the very few things that riles me up these days.

The arrogance required really must be something special. Or is it projection?

Or even perhaps, plain old stupidity or immaturity?

I can't figure it out at all...


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26958866 - 09/28/20 01:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

it feels disgusting to be judged by one's lessers. HA!
though that means we have already judged them inferior.
poor them.
poor us.
poor judges.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineyeah
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26958888 - 09/28/20 01:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

it's happened a lot to me on this forum so I don't really talk about myself anymore. You're one of the ones who's done it :shrug:

it's pretty agitating to be on the receiving end, yeah? You definitely haven't been as outright negative with it as other posters are. The worst offenders seem to lack inner courage because they believe they have a perspective on your situation that you don't but instead of empathetically providing objective commentary they opt to take the most critical and hurtful tone they are capable of.


--------------------


Edited by yeah (09/28/20 02:09 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: yeah]
    #26958977 - 09/28/20 03:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I think it's to be expected in the online world; the repercussions are next to nonexistent and so people can be very mean; hence the whole phenomenon of trolling to which we've nearly all been exposed.

That's very different from people who are IRL friends who do it, IMO. Friends are usually far more respectful to each other than anonymous humans on the internet are...


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26959040 - 09/28/20 04:12 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

some have to bite, or at least nip to assure  themselves they are real


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,852
Last seen: 50 minutes, 24 seconds
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26959104 - 09/28/20 04:44 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Have y'all experienced this? When someone states categorically what's going on inside your head and heart?

How does one deal with this? It's actually one of the very few things that riles me up these days.

The arrogance required really must be something special. Or is it projection?

Or even perhaps, plain old stupidity or immaturity?

I can't figure it out at all...




Can you give me an example of what this looks like? I don't think I've come across this.

The closest relation I can think of is when people make assumptions about a given statement without asking for clarification. And that includes the recognition that I have done this myself. But I can't recall ever coming across someone who thinks they know me inside and out.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Kickle]
    #26959176 - 09/28/20 05:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Seems related to being patronizing, condescending. It's sometimes done without the conscious intent to behave that way. Trying to be helpful can come off as being insensitive. Or maybe it's just arrogance. Hard to say without an example but even in arrogance there can still be a good intent.

I think the reality is that we don't entirely know what's in someone's mind, even if we know them well. To make assumptions otherwise I think is very normal. It's only when a situation arises that causes a person to see that their assumptions were totally off the mark that a person may start to learn to approach the minds of others with more care.

Without that, one might try to be helpful with tough love (I know what's best for you) or "just relax" or "cheer up" or "wake up" thinking another person's reality can make such an adjustment as easily as if they were us. The tragic aspect is that without the curiosity to look closer and ask questions, those good intentions can push people away.

As with all things that rile a person up, it's reasonable to look inward to see if there's something more than a simple matter of disrespect, especially when it happens over the internet where we're all safe and cozy in our chairs :smile:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Kickle]
    #26959476 - 09/28/20 09:31 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Can you give me an example of what this looks like?



"You like ________"
"No, I don't like ________"
"Yes, you do"

"You're not ________"
"I'm telling you, I really am"
"No, you're not"

"I'm sorry"
"I don't believe you're sorry"

TBH, the more I consider it, the more I think it's just bog-standard psychological projection.

Doesn't make it any easier to be on the receiving end of though.

"I know you better than you know yourself"

That's how it feels..


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Rahz]
    #26959485 - 09/28/20 09:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
It's only when a situation arises that causes a person to see that their assumptions were totally off the mark that a person may start to learn to approach the minds of others with more care.



You're right IMO Rahz, I feel it is a condescending act. Perhaps it is just a sense of superiority that causes people to do this. The fact that said people are not 'treating the minds of others with care' seems quite the operative factor in this conundrum to me.

I mean is ones mind, ones inner world, not the only place in this entire existence where one can claim any sovereignty?

I think it can be shrugged off easily on 'tinternet, but when it is a friend one has known for years that does it - who, IMO, is saying "I don't believe your words" - then it becomes a little insulting IMO.

I don't know, I'm rambling at this point as I decided a couple of hours ago that I've no need of friends who inherently mistrust me, but I'm curious as to the motivation still.

I've seen it a good few times over the years, but perhaps that's just because I'm a very well traveled extrovert..


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #26959533 - 09/28/20 10:39 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Superiority sometimes, but perhaps just self centered and inconsiderate. There could be trust issues related to past trauma. Doesn't mean it's your problem. It's easier to accept a person's flaws if you don't take them personally but you are certainly not obligated to entertain anyone in either circumstance.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #26959635 - 09/29/20 01:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

It's like someone scolding you for cultural appropriation because you made curry for dinner.

It's cultural appreciation and integration to enjoy culinary cuisines from around the world.

Following astrology in my view may lead someone to 'know what kind of a person you are', because of stars.. even though modern astrology doesn't account for the wobble of earth that has changed the dates of star signs over the centuries.

Accounting for those changes, a cancer may be a Gemini. I've heard an honest confession that some people just enjoy the fantasy of astrology.

More context helps pinpoint more accurate characteristics of your experience imo.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26959827 - 09/29/20 07:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

others can only be witness to the effects of another individuals motivations, in the aftermath, as obviously no two individuals can share the same view points exactly, or they would not be distinct peoples. 

if your motivations and views lie directly adjacent to someone else's, they may have some partial distinguishing sense of the cause, in an empathetic sense, but withouthout sharing this empathetic point of reference, they obviously cannot possibly share your consciousness.

for someone to know your true motivations at all, they would need a point of view gun.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26959961 - 09/29/20 09:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

the main good thing about astrology is to teach that not everyone is exactly the same, and to study about how different we can be in cosmology, linguistics, team relations, materiality, leadership, energy, sexuality, technical prowess, etc., etc.

After studying astrology, you need not engage in readings to become empowered by the knowledge that the world around us is occupied by various constellations of animals in the minds of members of this society. And on top of that we are all under the influence of the same sky, or ecosphere.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineRJ Tubs 202
Male


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,014
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 52 seconds
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #26960082 - 09/29/20 10:30 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Whenever I hear someone call another person "racist", I laugh. Nobody can know another's heart.

People who believe they can know another's heart probably don't even know their own heart.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26960295 - 09/29/20 12:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

maybe it is like jousting to call each other names.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
Female

Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,642
Last seen: 4 months, 20 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26960663 - 09/29/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

what is the appropriate time and place for people to call other people out on their ignorance?  never?  sometimes?  it always depends? -

- maybe this can't apply to motivations, as motivations are an internal thing, but what about maladaptive actions that someone commits, because they can't discern where their own ignorance starts/ends?  if you sorround yourself with like-minded people only, they may be likely to have similar motives, but also have the potential to have the same ignorant blind-spots.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26960926 - 09/29/20 07:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

surrounding yourself with like minded people sounds like a great idea!


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26961127 - 09/29/20 09:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

When one goes to a strictly Freudian psychoanalyst, one expects or will soon come to understand that their authoritarian approach derives from a 19th century Viennese patriarchal psychiatrist. One may need to have daddy issues to seek out someone who is there to assume the position that THEIR interpretation is superior to your own. Jung departed from this approach. He taught amplification of possible meanings but left it up to the analysand him/herself to select the most robust interpretation. :strokebeard:

If you are referring to someone who is NOT a professional whom you've consulted but who presumes to assert such a thing is not only arrogant but [s]he is also hoping to manipulate you. Moreover, [s]he is 'testing the water' to see if you will be sufficiently insecure or uncertain about yourself to indicate some acquiescence to his/her assertions. If you are, that is similar to the notion that a vampire has to be invited inside one's home to parasitize you. Once one indicates some agreement with a person like this, you have let them inside your head and they will see just how far they can go to convince you to listen to them and fuck with you for their own sick pleasure. These people are psychic vampires kinda like the humorous psychic vampire Colin Robinson in the comedy show What We Do In The Shadows (which if you've never seen it I highly recommend it)! :yesnod: BUT, you do not want to even be in their proximity because you'll always have to be on amber-alert around them and it's just needlessly exhausting.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 932
Last seen: 7 months, 21 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26961443 - 09/30/20 04:36 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Sounds extremely arrogant.

I firmly believe psychology and Psychiatry is almost entirely opinion based.
There is very little that is scientific about it.

Up until the 1970s mental health workers were largely labeled in the medical community as quacks.

There is no scientific test for psychology.

When John Wayne Gaceys brain was autopsied, they found his brain was completely normal physically.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

"Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence,
the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is
chaos and decay"
"Logic leads to nihilism"



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26963106 - 09/30/20 11:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Its not a unique issue to forums.
We can all learn to be better communicators.
see for example this very issue discussed in great detail by these many links:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=making+%22I%22+statements&t=hk&ia=web


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26964286 - 10/01/20 04:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

What exactly is arrogant? (Full sentences are helpful). How synchronistic that I just re-read a Quora article that I wrote and was notified for that it was upvoted. It addresses someone who, like yourself, conflated the brain with mind. Your statement "There is no scientific test for psychology" makes no sense. Psychology means study of the mind from the Greek psyche: mind, and an etymological connection to the Greek word logos which has several meanings. If you are referring to the word psyche (one of the words for mind) you'd be correct that there are only correlations with neural activity but no scientific proof of its existence. But it is as absurd to assert as the Behaviorists have that there is no such thing as mind. Mind or consciousness remains THE mystery of existence. Materialists presume that it is an epiphenomenon of neural activity, an 'emergent property' of bio-electrical processes, or a field-effect. They also assume that the brain produces mind. This is unproven and there are other hypotheses.

Mind, paradoxically, is subjectively known by mind. It is not a physical substance and is not constituted by physical parameters of mass, volume, extension in space, duration in time, or electrical charge. Mind is also not any known form of energy that can be detected by instrumentation on any known electromagnetic frequency. It is true that the brain does seem to generate electrical impulses that EEG and other devices can measure in terms of cps, e.g., Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta, and Gamma waves. But again, these are correlates of neural electrical signatures not mind qua mind.

One can find all kinds of studies to support one's position. As a licensed mental health professional since 1985 I have studied and participated in depth in certain disciplines such as Client Centered Therapy, Jungian Analytical Psychology and in Clinical Hypnotherapy in which I hold national board certification and status as a Diplomate and Fellow. But the important thing is that through my specialty I have been able to eliminate various types of suffering in subjects across the lifespan from 8 to octogenarians (my nonagenerian Holocaust survivor could not be helped because he was addicted to a Benzodiazepines, did not have the will to be weaned and hypnosis to sufficient depth cannot be achieved when Benzos are in one's system).

There are unethical practitioners, ineffectual practitioners, and yes there are out-and-out "quacks," charlatans, but there are also competent, capable and ethical practitioners within any of the mental health disciplines. The proof of efficacy is usually up to the client's report since their psychical malady is not apparent to observation. I mean, I do not subject a phobic client to the object of their phobia since that is cruel and unethical. But I have shown such phobic triggers afterwards to test the success of the treatment. However, in cases of physical symptoms like visible limps or audible stutters, I the therapist can witness their disappearance. I have witnessed bent posture from Fibromyalgia straighten up when the pain has left following treatment for a seemingly unrelated complaint. So like every other claim, there needs to be evidence only in the realm of psyche one is usually dependent on subjective report.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26964367 - 10/01/20 05:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I too like to sniff my own farts  :wink:


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,852
Last seen: 50 minutes, 24 seconds
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: sudly]
    #26964392 - 10/01/20 05:49 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Don't we all :lol:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Kickle]
    #26964647 - 10/01/20 07:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

:cheers:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: sudly]
    #26964709 - 10/01/20 08:16 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
I too like to sniff my own farts  :wink:




Try appreciating something you've produced that benefits someone else instead of benefitting from your own pleasure, such as it is.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/02/20 07:11 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 932
Last seen: 7 months, 21 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26964979 - 10/01/20 11:10 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

The problem with diagnosing someone is that IT IS opinion based.

100 different mental disorders share a number of traits.

Nobody is a mind reader.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

"Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence,
the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is
chaos and decay"
"Logic leads to nihilism"



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 2
    #26965029 - 10/01/20 11:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I was the guy in orange.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 932
Last seen: 7 months, 21 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: sudly]
    #26965076 - 10/02/20 12:09 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

L00L
:laugh2:
I almost woke up my roommate


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

"Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence,
the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is
chaos and decay"
"Logic leads to nihilism"



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26965687 - 10/02/20 10:57 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Parents can know their kids better than the kids sometimes know themselves.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26965703 - 10/02/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

kids also often know their parents better than they know themselves too.

it's contextual.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26965718 - 10/02/20 11:12 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

That too.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
    #26966526 - 10/02/20 07:10 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

HEALING someone does not require a diagnostic label. I do not answer to insurance companies so I do not require a diagnosis for treatment. Moreover, many of my clients are suffering from what would probably be diagnosed as PTSD if I needed to record something. I have seen clinical records of kids I used to work with, with a wide range of diagnoses from different clinicians. Over time one can narrow down what is going on within the name-game that the system uses. They delete disorders that I have observed (e.g., folie à deux, Shared Delusional Disorder), and create new ones. I'm on the side of R.D. Laing and others when it comes to the name-game. Fortunately, one does not need to be a "mind reader" when the unconscious gives up the trauma that has been generating symptoms for years or decades. I routinely tell people that "I have no crystal ball" and" I do not know you but I trust the process [of hypnotherapy]." This is true and I do not need preternatural assistance.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26966883 - 10/03/20 02:32 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Jim Jones did a lot of that folie a deux.


What have you cured?


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleImmy
Female
Registered: 07/18/18
Posts: 11
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: sudly] * 3
    #26967727 - 10/03/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I lost my personal identity from a catastrophic traumatic brain injury. For three yrs afterward, people around me were very comfortable telling me who I was. They would sometimes (often) completely contradict one another. Some of the early identity labels were helpful, such as being informed I was a mother, that I had been married previously to the father of my children (so was a wife, now a divorcée), that I had been an artist and technical and scientific illustrator, etc.... These were helpful because I used them to fill in content in order to function as these things or as a former of these things.

But some others were very unhelpful and untrue, and I rejected them once I recognized what they were, and I’m still doing that almost 6 yrs later. At the three yr mark, I cut out everyone who repeatedly lied to me about who I am and refused to stop when gently confronted.

The interesting thing about losing identity in an established life is that I was suddenly in the position of an infant being told by people who seemed to know more, who I am, how to behave, what is acceptable and unacceptable in society, etc..., but my memory slowly began to re-emerge and there were glaring contradictions that I have had to address. This is an ongoing process for me still.

Infants of parents who are not curious and fascinated enough to discover alongside their children who those children really are do a grave disservice to their children and humanity alike. When your friends and family aren’t curious, but rather certain of things they simply cannot know, you can still be curious. You do not have to accept their unwarranted certainty. They are likely some version of scared. It’s possible that they (subconsciously) cannot live with the uncertainty of curiosity and wonder, so they try to stiffen you into a piece of cardboard they can point at and say, “That’s a cardboard friend. They’re mine. They like apples.”

I developed the habit of being curious about the lack of curiosity expressed by such people. I’ve asked, “Can you tell me why you think that of me?” Then I’ve really listened. I gained so much self-awareness from this approach, including who is not admitted into my circle or life and why. I’ve learned compassion for the projections and fears of others and myself. So far, in my personal experience, I’ve not found any downside to “beginners mind.”

This is how I deal with this as it seems unending. For me, finding people who don’t do this has been impossible, and I accept that because it seems a ubiquitous human trait (thankfully that can be mitigated with awareness and deliberate behaviour). So I try to populate my life with people who delight in discovery and remain curious and fascinated by life.

People who aren’t that way tend to latch on for a time to “teach” me, but quickly fall away on their own because curiosity and openness to experience is anathema to them. I don’t mind that either. Maybe they’re supposed to be like that and I’m supposed to be like this. How would I know? Haha


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: sudly]
    #26968136 - 10/03/20 07:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Folie à Plusieurs, 'a folly of several.'    Jonestown used Flavor-Aid.

I have eliminated (rather than "cured") a host of symptoms originating from traumatic events as well as enhanced athletic performance by removing fears. I was quite popular with a number of pre-pubescent female tumblers, especially the children of those driven, Olympics-aspiring soccer moms.  I have listed things that I've been successful with on at least a few occasions: Anger, Anxiety, Depression, Emotional Abuse, Fear, Grief, Guilt, Insomnia, Nightmares, Phobias, Procrastination, Psychogenic Pain, Physical Abuse, Psychedelic Flashbacks, to name a select handful here.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/03/20 08:52 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26968454 - 10/04/20 01:16 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Tis a shame we don't have psychedelic therapy for all that.

Could add quitting addictions to the list then too.

Hypnotherapy sounds like one of the biggest scams, like a psychic reading.
Sure you could help people if they open up and you start an honest dialogue, but hypnotising them? :lol;

People seem more likely to hypnotise themselves to me.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: sudly]
    #26969975 - 10/04/20 11:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

You're just ignorant of hypnosis. That is not my responsibility. Educate yourself, or not. It has been recognized by the American Medical Association since 1958. Only charlatans and criminals scam people not ethical and capable clinicians. I have pages and pages of gratitude in writing that I do not advertise with because it's gauche IMO. They are available to those who ask but so far nobody has requested to see the binder. Besides, you're just being a troll. :lol:  :bye:



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26970100 - 10/05/20 03:32 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Don't forget the fine print :trustme:

Quote:

In the study, Spiegel and his colleagues screened about 500 people in search of the most hypnotizable. The ability to be hypnotized is a highly stable trait—like IQ, Spiegel says—that can be tested by a hypnosis practitioner in a five-minute mini-hypnosis session. Not everyone can be hypnotized, but two thirds of adults can, and people who are easily hypnotized tend to be more trusting of others, more intuitive and more likely to get so caught up in a good movie or play that they forget they’re watching one, Spiegel explains. “They tend to be less insistent on logic and order and more experiential—they like using their imaginations. They find it fun.”

https://time.com/4426856/hypnosis-hypnotism-brain/




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: sudly]
    #26970170 - 10/05/20 06:14 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

the ceremony of practitioner and client may include Hypnosis or some form of visualization and relaxation ritual to increase the trust and communication relationship.

many symbolic exchanges are normal during trust building. this kind of treatment involves trusted information transfer, and the development of trust in one's self as well as the other.

underlying the power of hypnosis is the power of suggestion as well as the power of ceremony and symbols and the resonant platform that relaxation and trust affords.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldnameforgotten
Traveler
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 956
Loc: Pilbara Australia Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 10 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26971440 - 10/05/20 11:46 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Sometimes you do really know better than the individual.

I have many times in my life pointed out a delusion of another. With a girlfriend, family member, close friend, or a much younger person going through something I had experienced a long time ago.



I think critiques from others is a big part of personal growth. Someone assertive is going to have a much better chance of giving you the option of growth vs someone who would prefer to indulge your every fantasy so as to avoid confrontation.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26971614 - 10/06/20 06:06 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

it is easiest to see one's own flaws in others first.
it helps to analyze crowds with a good friend.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26971619 - 10/06/20 06:18 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:
Sometimes you do really know better than the individual.



I disagree. Sometimes one can take a guess, and that guess may turn out to be right, and the other person can validate your guess, but that's all it; a guess.

One simply cannot know the truth of another's inner world, IMO.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldnameforgotten
Traveler
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 956
Loc: Pilbara Australia Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 10 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26971624 - 10/06/20 06:33 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:
Sometimes you do really know better than the individual.



I disagree. Sometimes one can take a guess, and that guess may turn out to be right, and the other person can validate your guess, but that's all it; a guess.

One simply cannot know the truth of another's inner world, IMO.




Everything is a guess. We take guesses at our own minds as well. Theres a wall of bias we have in ourselves.

I think theres definitely some times where you can tell someone else what is really going on and help them through it. We lie to ourselves constantly. Self-delude. And a lot of it are things that happened a million times before to a million other people. Those other people can give insight onto those experiences.


I mean just look at a therapist. They help you see things. Of course they are just guessing. But do they not help? Do they not accurately find the core issues?



I think if we are to not point out the flaws in others thinking that it would negatively impact society. What are the negative aspects of telling someone what you think they think? I dont see the cons.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Oldnameforgotten] * 1
    #26971639 - 10/06/20 07:01 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah but a therapist helps you to steer your way to seeing your inner truth, right? They hardly sit about postulating that 'this is your problem' and 'you feel this way about this. A good one approaches the situation with humility and a clause of 'this is my guess/thought/suspicion', leaving you free to take it or leave it.

Like anything we say, it all comes down to how it's presented, does it not? I'm guessing you haven't read the entire thread, because it comes down to that; people who say 'I know you like/don't like/feel _______ about ______', in an arrogant manner; uninvited.

There's few things that annoy me in this life any longer, but that is definitely one of them.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldnameforgotten
Traveler
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 956
Loc: Pilbara Australia Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 10 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26971654 - 10/06/20 07:18 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

If their goal is to help an individual then I am all for it even if it upsets the individual.

If their goal is to sound smart or insult an individual then im against it.



I wouldn't want it removed entirely though. I feel like the irritation one may feel from someone doing this does not weigh out the potential benefits of correcting someones delusion.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26971662 - 10/06/20 07:34 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Fair enough. I can see where you're coming from, and yet the phrase 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' instantly rings about my head as I consider the first line in your response.

It's definitely nuanced, inasmuch as the act can absolutely be a noble one, but at the same time, I know that the only times people have got through to me to introduce me to my own misguided or unseen thinking have been when said people have opened my mind to it by a line of questioning, rather than stating categorically. I am grateful that this has happened often in my years.

Still I think that I, and a great many other humans on this planet, are very likely to reject even the best advice if it is presented forcefully. I'm sure there's a good name for this situation. Easy does it, or something.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldnameforgotten
Traveler
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 956
Loc: Pilbara Australia Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 10 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26971690 - 10/06/20 08:02 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I find it interesting that you dont like the arrogance of someone suggesting a flaw in an individuals thinking..... but the individual being stubborn and refusing to listen to reason due to the basket it was presented in is fine with you.


I think the error there that has a very clear negative impact on society are the individuals being irritated by correction. Definitely not an individual sounding arrogant. I dont see the negative impact on society of someone sounding arrogant.


And I am not being contrarian here! This is something I have thought a lot about. There are other benefits to presenting your ideas directly and assertively. You can also embarrass yourself and that will utilize your ego for good. It will make you not want to make a mistake again.



I think modesty is MUCH worse for society than pride. Modesty is the thing I reckon we should despise.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26971731 - 10/06/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I guess we just see the issue from 180 degrees apart; I can't get behind the idea that 'modesty is a thing we should despise' or that it is worse than pride in any way. Just doesn't sit right with me. Arrogance is horrible to be on the receiving end of, I feel, and I know I'm not alone. After all, as users on a banned substance forum, do we not generally agree that we don't like being told what's best for us?

BTW I don't think being stubborn is 'fine' - I just think it important to accept the quandaries of the human condition head on, rather than to look at the world from an idealistic standpoint - which is to say, most people, when forcefully told what to do/think, will outright reject what they're told, whether it is good for them as not.

Subtlety is highly required for the inception of a new paradigm, in most instances, IMO.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldnameforgotten
Traveler
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 956
Loc: Pilbara Australia Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 10 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26971785 - 10/06/20 09:25 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Yes most people do disagree with my opinion on this topic.

I guess my main issue is there just doesnt seem to be a negative impact of arrogance other than "it bothers me". It seems like being arrogant is a beneficial trait both for the individual and also society.

Meanwhile modesty only plays a role in making you more socially accepted while at the same time manipulating others into a lesser understanding (by definition) of the world.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26971809 - 10/06/20 09:55 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Arrogance causes separation between humans.

That, IMO, is one of the biggest issues facing our species. It is endemic, given that we are a social species designed to work together, not apart.

Look at the greatest ills facing us; politics, religion, war. Do these things not thrive on and are rooted in, arrogance?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldnameforgotten
Traveler
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 956
Loc: Pilbara Australia Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 10 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26971846 - 10/06/20 10:16 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Arrogance like daring to fly? Daring to question the church?


I dont think we can categorically say both that arrogance is the cause or even main cause of these ills and that arrogance isnt a needed tool for the benefit of society.


So many factors play a role. Greed. Self-esteem. Predicament. Power dynamics.


And if anything the wish to remove arrogance from the dominant species on Earth is the most utopian of all wishes. We got here by being selfish and arrogant. Daring to explore, daring to fight, daring to innovate.


I think at best we can pretend we aren't arrogant. And what is that if not manipulation?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26972867 - 10/06/20 08:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:
If their goal is to help an individual then I am all for it even if it upsets the individual.

If their goal is to sound smart or insult an individual then im against it.



I wouldn't want it removed entirely though. I feel like the irritation one may feel from someone doing this does not weigh out the potential benefits of correcting someones delusion.




Seeking out a therapist is not the same as receiving unsolicited advice. In either case, the individual will generally be upset. Bringing up things that were previously being actively avoided can do that and therapy can make things worse before it get's better.

I think when it comes to unsolicited advice, if the aim is to help the individual they should tread lightly. Pushing someone away may or may not be an acceptable outcome.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineRJ Tubs 202
Male


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,014
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 52 seconds
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #26973018 - 10/06/20 10:27 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:

Still I think that I, and a great many other humans on this planet, are very likely to reject even the best advice if it is presented forcefully. I'm sure there's a good name for this situation.




Some might call this psychological resistance. A bit of an obtuse point - often one politician will demand that another politician denounce someone or an organization. BLM members have been known to interrupt people's dinner and demand the diners repeat a slogan or make a hand gesture. It's human nature to not succumb to this pressure, even if you agree with the perspective. If you demand I denounce the KKK, I likely will not do it, and that doesn't reflect my actual opposition to the KKK. It would be wrong to assume I support the KKK if I refuse demands to denounce them.

An act of respect, if made mandatory, becomes an act of submission.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldnameforgotten
Traveler
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/19/19
Posts: 956
Loc: Pilbara Australia Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 10 days
Re: People who say they know your mind & motivations better than you do [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26973039 - 10/06/20 11:00 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I DEMAND THAT YOU DENOUNCE THE KKK!!!!



:smile:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The Key to Happiness is in the Mind - An LSD trip Report... jono 992 2 04/28/03 01:52 PM
by Murex
* the individual Lenore 2,343 12 12/17/01 04:13 PM
by Ulysees
* My mind is stained with this thought.
( 1 2 3 all )
Aaladorn 2,372 47 01/07/03 10:48 AM
by SnuffelzFurever
* The post that never dies
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Dogomush 7,735 62 08/29/03 11:23 AM
by fireworks_god
* Love, a universal force.
( 1 2 all )
LOBO 3,925 29 12/10/01 07:26 AM
by LOBO
* Space Impact Responsible for the Survival of Christianity? Jackal 913 5 06/24/03 02:24 PM
by fireworks_god
* Human mind vs body(Re:the self post)
( 1 2 all )
PsycheStudent 3,763 24 05/03/10 04:11 PM
by BluePixieWaves
* Will the forces of Good ultimately defeat the forces of Evil recalcitrant 1,835 16 03/15/03 07:50 AM
by quemo

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,306 topic views. 0 members, 11 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.042 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 12 queries.