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Anonymous #1
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 US Civil War   1
#26958181 - 09/28/20 12:23 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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i hear a lot of talk about civil war if trump wins or biden wins. who here is serious about it?
how would you even participate in a civil war? have you thought of the consequences of being in one? can you accept that you might be put in tremendous pain or see everyone around you die? or is the reason for even going to civil war even that serious? i ask because i think most people are bullshitting when they act like they're going to fight in a civil war if it even breaks out.
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Anonymous #2
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A full blown civil war, no, not even close, but there will be deaths related to the outcome. And if Trump wins the riots will probably make the George Floyd riots look like amateur hour.
It's a very ugly time right now and hatred amongst us is at an all-time high
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Anonymous #3
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Yeah. Its hard to expect less. Racism these days has little to do with what cops skin color kills what person. It has to do with race and what race earns what money and who gets fired from covid. I believe no matter what President wins we will see riots unlike those seen since at least Rodney King or at least the very first days of the George Floyd riots. Buildings will burn down. The police at least the cops still funded will be out in mass force.
Fuck I may just lock my doors. Unless I feel like filming. It will be anarchy
Edit: in some ways I feel the sooner this country burns itself down then the sooner it can rebuild itself back up in a better way. Might as well get it over with.
Is that ultra pessimistic? For a moment I thought I was being ultra optimistic.
Edited by Anonymous (09/29/20 08:41 PM)
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Anonymous #4
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I think the population would stand up against their out of control government sooner than a civil war.
So, revolution yes, civil war no.
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Anonymous #2
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Quote:
Anonymous #3 said:
Edit: in some ways I feel the sooner this country burns itself down then the sooner it can rebuild itself back up in a better way. Might as well get it over with.
Is that ultra pessimistic? For a moment I thought I was being ultra optimistic.
I very much hate to say it but I think you're probably right
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 Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
 
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Quote:
Anonymous #2 said:
Quote:
Anonymous #3 said:
Edit: in some ways I feel the sooner this country burns itself down then the sooner it can rebuild itself back up in a better way. Might as well get it over with.
Is that ultra pessimistic? For a moment I thought I was being ultra optimistic.
I very much hate to say it but I think you're probably right
In that case, does Trump have your votes? If you want to fuck America in the ass with a running chainsaw dipped in Frank's Insanity Hotsauce, vote Trump 2020
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Anonymous #3
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Re: US Civil War [Re: Asante]
#26961674 - 09/30/20 09:35 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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That is amazing how you can post unanonymous like that. I have been trying forever to post unanonymous here and it just won't let me. The reason I keep posting here? This forum has the best discussions
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Anonymous #5
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Only Admins can do that. I think a US Civil War is definitely possible. I kinda hope it does so we can restart this fuckin mess we call America.
- Logical Chaos
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Anonymous #6
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Quote:
Anonymous #3 said:
Yeah. Its hard to expect less. Racism these days has little to do with what cops skin color kills what person. It has to do with race and what race earns what money and who gets fired from covid. I believe no matter what President wins we will see riots unlike those seen since at least Rodney King or at least the very first days of the George Floyd riots. Buildings will burn down. The police at least the cops still funded will be out in mass force.
Fuck I may just lock my doors. Unless I feel like filming. It will be anarchy
Edit: in some ways I feel the sooner this country burns itself down then the sooner it can rebuild itself back up in a better way. Might as well get it over with.
Is that ultra pessimistic? For a moment I thought I was being ultra optimistic.
Anarchy=/=chaos.
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Anonymous #7
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I've been waiting for the damn civil war or revolution since the 2008 recession started. And finally it is coming to some slow fruition.
I'm sick of the way this country works. I'd like to start a business but that would require already having about $250,000 to spend on licenses and other bullshit. like if I already had that kind of fucking money why would I even need to start a business? I would just invest in stocks and shit that I could make money very easily with.
No normal person in the USA can make decent money. You have to be either privileged or you have to sell out to corporate America.
Out of optimism I hope the country falls hard because it's in need of a rebuild. And what also would help is if 90% of Americans would get there head out of the sand and start questioning their government.
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Anonymous #8
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What are you trying to do that requires $250,000 in licensing fees? Incorporation is usually a few hundred dollars; it would have been $300 for me but a waiver applied and cost was reduced to $0. My tax permit may have been a small fee to cover the administration paperwork and my permitting is ~$110 annually.
It takes a few months to get all the paperwork and while it is a tedious process, it's not all that expensive for most fields. If you need a specialized building, permits, or licensing, then the costs can climb. If you need something like HAZMAT licensing, which is around $90-$4,000 in my state, then you likely already have a skill-set that commands a good wage and the expenses aren't that bad relatively speaking.
If I had a regular job to both support me and fuel my business, then I wouldn't need any of the licensing at all until I was ready to conduct business and sell to customers.
Some states require incorporation, a business license, and insurance, among other things but those are usually states like New York; even then, it's not $250,000.
Now, if you are trying to acquire land, build a structure, or find a high value location right from the start; then yes, there will be big expenses involved. New businesses do not usually start off with perfect locations or high dollar buildings unless the owner has acquired the financing by one means or another. A location may be between a few thousand dollars to several million; it depends on the location, pre-existing buildings, land improvements, state, etc. A build-ready lot with utilities will cost more than scrub land; land outside of NYC will easily cost more than land in Arizona.
You may get a loan you have good credit, proof of income, or put forth a titled asset for collateral. Getting a loan for land or a building is something banks can get on board with because if you go under, the bank can at least claim the business location and recoup losses. A pre-existing building is tangible collateral in which the bank can quickly re-sell and minimize risk. The more you can minimize risk to the bank, the better your loan will be. There are often subsidies for starting various businesses, make use of them.
Financing a business is why many people work a regular job and build their savings or their own business up over the course of several years in their off time. Starting a business doesn't happen over night, it may take 5-10 years or more to save up enough wages to start. I used up my savings from when I had a job and spent it on living expenses and a failed business; I tried again with freelancing but it didn't pay enough. I am now on my third business which is very small, but successful. I had to go broke before learning what worked and what didn't, what was essential, profitable, and what wasn't; much of the journey is learning. There is often a great deal of financial risk in starting a business, but as they say, nothing ventured; nothing gained.
I do not come from wealth, I do not come from privilege. My ancestors were indentured servants who couldn't even pay their own way to America and had to work off their debt on arrival. Very few of my extended family have any degree of wealth. Those that do have worked hard and built it through investing, or worked hard and are essentially all attorneys and doctors. Some people start from a position of wealth, but it is by no means required to be successful.
I want wealth to run in my family too, both for my parents while they still have the years to enjoy it and for my nieces and nephews who are going to have to live in a further deteriorating world. No one is going to give it to me, no one owes it to me, wealth does not come to those who do not seek it with earnest effort. My formal education is limited to a high school diploma, my savings came from enlisting which was my first job. No one owes me anything, nor do they have any obligation to pick me up off the ground.
If you are at the bottom of the barrel and want to get out of poverty then live out of a van, work two jobs, and pinch every penny, because that is what it is going to take. Refuse to do it, and poverty is all you will ever know. It doesn't matter how you wish it could be, that is how it is. I haven't bought new clothing in around five years, I can't afford it. The last pair of shoes I bought were used because I can't afford new ones. I live on pasta and cereal grains, along with what I grow for myself, forage, or hunt because I can't afford better. These few years of restricted living will not last. For my cost cutting and self-imposed restrictions, I am rewarded with money, and money seeks out money; it find's those who keep and respect it; likewise, I also have no debts.
Perpetually blaming the man, the system, a bad childhood, a lack of education, a lack of wealth, ad nauseam, will not improve your lot in life. The playing field isn't level, it has never been level and never will be level; there are only winners and losers and I decided to be a winner. No one is going to lift you out of poverty and the system is not going to change, only you can change yourself and be the change you wish to see in the world.
I didn't have $250,000, a college education, or, excluding my MOS, even a certified trade skill; I had a high school diploma and around $1,500 that I raised from selling off some of my possessions. Yet, here I am with a small business that is going into it's third fiscal year and lifting myself out of poverty. I did not sell myself out to banks, big corporations, or come from wealth, yet I am an entirely normal person who got ahead. Getting ahead when you don't have a position of wealth or power often involves literal blood, sweat, and tears; it involves applying your labor for your own benefit. My hands could tell you their own story with all of their scars and burns.
I see comments like this all the time, always blaming someone or something else; waiting for a collapse or a wealth redistribution scheme, rather than taking the hand you have and building something with it. You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had.
As for stocks,
Investing in stocks is not as simple as dumping money into a company and growing it. Stocks are a long term game and it comes with plenty of new taxes, paperwork, and commission fees. You need to examine the company's debt, cash holdings, leadership, it's future viability, historical stock price, state and federal politics, speculation, etc. You put your money at risk when you buy a stock position, that position can become more or less valuable and there is no reset button if you lose. Again, nothing ventured; nothing gained. The stock market is not a magical means to make money, but it is an excellent means to transfer wealth from the young and panicky to the old and patient. Load up when there is fear and panic, sell when everyone is confident; if you have the spare money to do so. I have watched many opportunities pass by, but my time is not yet and another opportunity is coming.
As for the civil war,
People say the civil war is something in the future but I say it's already here; people are dying right now. I personally believe that if the civil war escalates, it will still be limited to civil unrest in the large cities. The national guard will quickly handle any disturbances caused by the current instigators and it's unlikely that the insurrection act will be invoked because that will be further escalation. The national guard is entirely capable of restoring order to the anarchy and most of the punk kids causing problems right now will scatter when they get their first lesson in consequences; something they should have learned from their parents. Cities have always had these problems and they will always have these problems, it's been going on for thousands of years.
I have had my fill of fighting wars and any involvement I may have in the civil war or civil unrest will probably be limited to keeping the peace in my county. Because of my passed experience, I would likely be temporarily deputized and added to a posse without too many questions. It's unlikely that there will be clear cut geographical fronts, rather every ideology will be mixed together. Those who want to play politics and sow chaos can do it outside of town or in another county for that matter. My local sheriff will probably need a lot more boots if they intend to keep the peace. Then again, people still need to eat and I may reserve myself to producing enough food in unstable times.
It's not necessarily who wins in a civil war, but who is in charge of rebuilding after it's done.
I'm in a very strict county, any kind of lawlessness gets shut down quickly and I would like to keep it that way. I expect practical people who don't mind getting bloody and burned to step up to the occasion.
Family wise, a lot of my extended family will show up and it will be FOB operations until the unrest is under control.
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Anonymous #7
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I make cannabis products (balms/creams for external use) and I have no idea what all the cannabis laws and permits are for that. I don't grow my own flower that I use for it.
I think we are already in a civil war also.
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Anonymous #9
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Quote:
Anonymous #8 said:
What are you trying to do that requires $250,000 in licensing fees? Incorporation is usually a few hundred dollars; it would have been $300 for me but a waiver applied and cost was reduced to $0. My tax permit may have been a small fee to cover the administration paperwork and my permitting is ~$110 annually.
It takes a few months to get all the paperwork and while it is a tedious process, it's not all that expensive for most fields. If you need a specialized building, permits, or licensing, then the costs can climb. If you need something like HAZMAT licensing, which is around $90-$4,000 in my state, then you likely already have a skill-set that commands a good wage and the expenses aren't that bad relatively speaking.
If I had a regular job to both support me and fuel my business, then I wouldn't need any of the licensing at all until I was ready to conduct business and sell to customers.
Some states require incorporation, a business license, and insurance, among other things but those are usually states like New York; even then, it's not $250,000.
Now, if you are trying to acquire land, build a structure, or find a high value location right from the start; then yes, there will be big expenses involved. New businesses do not usually start off with perfect locations or high dollar buildings unless the owner has acquired the financing by one means or another. A location may be between a few thousand dollars to several million; it depends on the location, pre-existing buildings, land improvements, state, etc. A build-ready lot with utilities will cost more than scrub land; land outside of NYC will easily cost more than land in Arizona.
You may get a loan you have good credit, proof of income, or put forth a titled asset for collateral. Getting a loan for land or a building is something banks can get on board with because if you go under, the bank can at least claim the business location and recoup losses. A pre-existing building is tangible collateral in which the bank can quickly re-sell and minimize risk. The more you can minimize risk to the bank, the better your loan will be. There are often subsidies for starting various businesses, make use of them.
Financing a business is why many people work a regular job and build their savings or their own business up over the course of several years in their off time. Starting a business doesn't happen over night, it may take 5-10 years or more to save up enough wages to start. I used up my savings from when I had a job and spent it on living expenses and a failed business; I tried again with freelancing but it didn't pay enough. I am now on my third business which is very small, but successful. I had to go broke before learning what worked and what didn't, what was essential, profitable, and what wasn't; much of the journey is learning. There is often a great deal of financial risk in starting a business, but as they say, nothing ventured; nothing gained.
I do not come from wealth, I do not come from privilege. My ancestors were indentured servants who couldn't even pay their own way to America and had to work off their debt on arrival. Very few of my extended family have any degree of wealth. Those that do have worked hard and built it through investing, or worked hard and are essentially all attorneys and doctors. Some people start from a position of wealth, but it is by no means required to be successful.
I want wealth to run in my family too, both for my parents while they still have the years to enjoy it and for my nieces and nephews who are going to have to live in a further deteriorating world. No one is going to give it to me, no one owes it to me, wealth does not come to those who do not seek it with earnest effort. My formal education is limited to a high school diploma, my savings came from enlisting which was my first job. No one owes me anything, nor do they have any obligation to pick me up off the ground.
If you are at the bottom of the barrel and want to get out of poverty then live out of a van, work two jobs, and pinch every penny, because that is what it is going to take. Refuse to do it, and poverty is all you will ever know. It doesn't matter how you wish it could be, that is how it is. I haven't bought new clothing in around five years, I can't afford it. The last pair of shoes I bought were used because I can't afford new ones. I live on pasta and cereal grains, along with what I grow for myself, forage, or hunt because I can't afford better. These few years of restricted living will not last. For my cost cutting and self-imposed restrictions, I am rewarded with money, and money seeks out money; it find's those who keep and respect it; likewise, I also have no debts.
Perpetually blaming the man, the system, a bad childhood, a lack of education, a lack of wealth, ad nauseam, will not improve your lot in life. The playing field isn't level, it has never been level and never will be level; there are only winners and losers and I decided to be a winner. No one is going to lift you out of poverty and the system is not going to change, only you can change yourself and be the change you wish to see in the world.
I didn't have $250,000, a college education, or, excluding my MOS, even a certified trade skill; I had a high school diploma and around $1,500 that I raised from selling off some of my possessions. Yet, here I am with a small business that is going into it's third fiscal year and lifting myself out of poverty. I did not sell myself out to banks, big corporations, or come from wealth, yet I am an entirely normal person who got ahead. Getting ahead when you don't have a position of wealth or power often involves literal blood, sweat, and tears; it involves applying your labor for your own benefit. My hands could tell you their own story with all of their scars and burns.
I see comments like this all the time, always blaming someone or something else; waiting for a collapse or a wealth redistribution scheme, rather than taking the hand you have and building something with it. You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had.
As for stocks,
Investing in stocks is not as simple as dumping money into a company and growing it. Stocks are a long term game and it comes with plenty of new taxes, paperwork, and commission fees. You need to examine the company's debt, cash holdings, leadership, it's future viability, historical stock price, state and federal politics, speculation, etc. You put your money at risk when you buy a stock position, that position can become more or less valuable and there is no reset button if you lose. Again, nothing ventured; nothing gained. The stock market is not a magical means to make money, but it is an excellent means to transfer wealth from the young and panicky to the old and patient. Load up when there is fear and panic, sell when everyone is confident; if you have the spare money to do so. I have watched many opportunities pass by, but my time is not yet and another opportunity is coming.
As for the civil war,
People say the civil war is something in the future but I say it's already here; people are dying right now. I personally believe that if the civil war escalates, it will still be limited to civil unrest in the large cities. The national guard will quickly handle any disturbances caused by the current instigators and it's unlikely that the insurrection act will be invoked because that will be further escalation. The national guard is entirely capable of restoring order to the anarchy and most of the punk kids causing problems right now will scatter when they get their first lesson in consequences; something they should have learned from their parents. Cities have always had these problems and they will always have these problems, it's been going on for thousands of years.
I have had my fill of fighting wars and any involvement I may have in the civil war or civil unrest will probably be limited to keeping the peace in my county. Because of my passed experience, I would likely be temporarily deputized and added to a posse without too many questions. It's unlikely that there will be clear cut geographical fronts, rather every ideology will be mixed together. Those who want to play politics and sow chaos can do it outside of town or in another county for that matter. My local sheriff will probably need a lot more boots if they intend to keep the peace. Then again, people still need to eat and I may reserve myself to producing enough food in unstable times.
It's not necessarily who wins in a civil war, but who is in charge of rebuilding after it's done.
I'm in a very strict county, any kind of lawlessness gets shut down quickly and I would like to keep it that way. I expect practical people who don't mind getting bloody and burned to step up to the occasion.
Family wise, a lot of my extended family will show up and it will be FOB operations until the unrest is under control.
Intelligence.
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Anonymous #10
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It’s funny to me when people suggest that the people burning our cities will rebuild America. I don’t think these people can or want to build anything. Once it’s gone, it’s gone for good. Who would invest a dime in rebuilding a city or anything else when the rioters would be allowed to destroy it again? The good news is that by allowing our cities to burn means we aren’t racist, so burn baby burn!
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Anonymous #11
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Those who fantasize about fighting in wars and are fuelled by hatred know nothing of the horrors of war.
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Anonymous #12
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And tend to run face first into it.
There’s been nothing in the news other than covid that couldn’t have been easily avoided. The stupidity just snowballs though. See how that works?
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Anonymous #3
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War to me is the idea those who fight and die are truly lucky. Its probably over before too long. Those who live face pain and possibly living crippled, watching friends die, having to kill people you don't know, suffering, death and worst of all attrition. Only idiots go and die on the battlefield. The smarter opponents try and starve out the enemy to win without getting hurt. Its a cowards game. Living in a war torn world is a lot like living through a covid torn world. Finding food and a way to stay clean just becomes a daily task. Finding food and not getting it taken from you is even harder. You may end up killing your own cats and cooking them. Your life is fucked. No decency or humanity exists. You live to kill or be killed its not much of a life. Love and hope long disappear. Living clean and healthy and with food becomes so tough you pretty much get used to living with disease.
Yeah no one who wants that knows what it is. Except we live in a reflection of a world always fighting. People are based in value off a dollar figure. Work where you help people and build buildings and cook food is almost obsolete and expendable. There are always jobs fighting if society thinks your record is clean you can be valued as a cop. Someone to go out and harass and push the war and risk your life over a traffic stop. We live in a very warlike world always fighting over a piece of fucking bread. War would be like this like what we live in now but 100x worst. Maximum outcome. Truly fucking sad. Misery at its highest extent. Total torture and suffering. No morals or values. No love. Only taking from someone else to better your own life. Fucking someone up to survive. Physically or by means of selfishness.
Pathetic. Not something we want to go through. Over politicians that are greedy 360 degrees 100% of the time. They might as well hold their hand in your pocket holding your wall while you hold your hand in their pocket holding their dick. Life as a dog that takes orders for water in its dish or gets beaten. No future for a family. Life as a bitch. Throw you in the pit and chew off someone elses face or face your own demise which you probably prefer anyway.
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Anonymous #13
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they promised a civil war and we didn't get one. Just another promise the media/trump flaked on
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Anonymous #12
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You sir have a good eye for things. I like you.
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Anonymous #3
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Quote:
Anonymous #13 said:
they promised a civil war and we didn't get one. Just another promise the media/trump flaked on
All of Trump's fake fans could not bring it either. Typical redneck trash. Claimed leftists would riot. Leftists didn't even riot. But please if 10,000 Trump supporters get arrested I will not give a shit. Its just another hollow group of people who talk shit and bring nothing.
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Anonymous #2
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Quote:
Anonymous #3 said:
Quote:
Anonymous #13 said:
they promised a civil war and we didn't get one. Just another promise the media/trump flaked on
All of Trump's fake fans could not bring it either. Typical redneck trash. Claimed leftists would riot. Leftists didn't even riot. But please if 10,000 Trump supporters get arrested I will not give a shit. Its just another hollow group of people who talk shit and bring nothing.
Couple of serious questions
I know it's popular for liberals to label Trump voters as redneck white trash, but do you really believe that the 70 million or so votes he received are just primarily made up of rednecks? Personally I know many people who voted for Trump who are about the furthest thing from white trash you could imagine.
He also did extremely well with latinos:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/12/trump-shocked-world-with-his-latino-support-heres-how-it-happened/
And correct me if I'm wrong but he also did significantly better with black voters than any other republican challenger in recent memory.
My second question, regarding your statement of "But please if 10,000 Trump supporters get arrested", why do you feel such hatred for people because they voted for Trump? You really would like to see them arrested just because they voted for someone you don't like?
I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just legitimately curious.
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Anonymous #12
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The chilldrens are losing they minds! 
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Anonymous #2
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Heck I also have another question while we're at it.
Why is it so acceptable to call some white people "redneck white trash"? Not just here (but definitely here), but pretty much everywhere.
Isn't it supposed to be frowned upon to say such things about people of any race? I mean if one were to say "black ghetto trash" then that would be a racist thing to say. And rightfully so. But why is it okay to say such things about certain white people?
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Anonymous #14
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Quote:
Anonymous #2 said:
Heck I also have another question while we're at it.
Why is it so acceptable to call some white people "redneck white trash"? Not just here (but definitely here), but pretty much everywhere.
Isn't it supposed to be frowned upon to say such things about people of any race? I mean if one were to say "black ghetto trash" then that would be a racist thing to say. And rightfully so. But why is it okay to say such things about certain white people?
Yeah it's racist if you are talking about another race. Most of us are white so we can say it.
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Anonymous #2
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Quote:
Anonymous #14 said:
Quote:
Anonymous #2 said:
Heck I also have another question while we're at it.
Why is it so acceptable to call some white people "redneck white trash"? Not just here (but definitely here), but pretty much everywhere.
Isn't it supposed to be frowned upon to say such things about people of any race? I mean if one were to say "black ghetto trash" then that would be a racist thing to say. And rightfully so. But why is it okay to say such things about certain white people?
Yeah it's racist if you are talking about another race. Most of us are white so we can say it.
I guess that's true I suppose. Still seems like a terribly demeaning thing to say (which of course is the point).
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Anonymous #15
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Usually its because we all realize that white trash is just a choice. Like saying dumb nascar fans.
It's not some all encompassing thing for all white people.
When people say black trash they mean they think all black people are trash.
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Anonymous #2
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Quote:
Anonymous #15 said:
Usually its because we all realize that white trash is just a choice. Like saying dumb nascar fans.
So what constitutes white trash?
Any caucasian who lives in a trailer park? And watches Nascar?
Is it their choice to be below the poverty line anymore than an African American who lives in a struggling inner city neighborhood?
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Anonymous #15
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Ever been to a trailer park or the hood? There's plenty of people that are not trash
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Anonymous #2
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Oh I agree of course but it seems to me that for a pretty good number of people, that's the stereotype. Or one of them anyway.
Like to a staunch liberal, if someone who is white, watches Nascar, and lives in a trailer park, that person would almost assuredly be labeled and written off as white trash. Particularly if they voted for Trump.
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Anonymous #15
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I guess most people are not actively looking for double standards to defend their own bad behaviors so people don't really care that some libtards think all trump voters are trash
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Anonymous #2
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Quote:
Anonymous #15 said:
I guess most people are not actively looking for double standards to defend their own bad behaviors
Is that what you think I'm doing? Looking for double standards to defend my own bad behaviors?
For the record I think demeaning labels that apply to certain races of any kind are wrong.
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Anonymous #15
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Liberals are not a race but don't you think its prejudice to assume they're all too stupid and would call people watching nascar in trailer parks white trash.
I'm just saying this is a conversation I see a lot of people with prejudices having because they can't wrap their head around double standards and want to pay more attention to double standards than their own ideas.
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Anonymous #2
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I do think it's true that there are quite a few out there who do use the double standard point to justify their own behaviors, yes.
I'm just saying that I am not doing that and think it's wrong to stereotype and label large groups of people, even if those people belong to your own race. Because it's a way of dehumanizing people and making them inferior to you (not you personally but in general of course).
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Anonymous #16
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Quote:
Anonymous #15 said:
Usually its because we all realize that white trash is just a choice. Like saying dumb nascar fans.
It's not some all encompassing thing for all white people.
When people say black trash they mean they think all black people are trash.
So you attempt to justify your double standards by guessing how people think. 
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Anonymous #17
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america wont have a civil war over this, no way. I could see a civil war occurring down the line, if no viable political philosophies come in to challenge neo-liberal conservatives, but things will have to get a lot worse, first.
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