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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Religion and Death
    #26955914 - 09/26/20 11:07 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Here is a hot take.  The Death impulse, that which seeks self annihilation and non existence (death wish), and the Religious impulse, that which places hope and faith in a transcendent being, are very close companions.

Both look beyond the self and the world.  Death impulse goes to it directly whereas the Religious impulse seeks to cope in the world.  It’s as if the Religious impulse handles the Death impulse and redirects it into something that negates it. 

I think this is how religion started.  Monkeys became relatively self aware of themselves and their world and figured that they could simply take exit whenever convenient.  As a survival mechanism for a sentient species the Religious impulse was born.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26955949 - 09/26/20 11:32 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Religion is a cultural construct coinciding with the onset of civilization, and is not innate. For example, hunter-gatherers  are almost universally irreligious. And I have no idea what you're getting at with "death impulse." It seems to me that virtually all living things seek to remain alive at all costs, with a few complex exceptions. "Survival impulse" would make a lot more sense.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26955984 - 09/26/20 12:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Suicide is not innate, either.  The skill of Suicide comes with the skill of Religion.  Package deal?

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
For example, hunter-gatherers  are almost universally irreligious.




Also, would it be accurate to say that the hunter-gatherers were not suicidal?


Edited by Yellow Pants (09/26/20 12:08 PM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26956004 - 09/26/20 12:15 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I said, "with a few complex exceptions." I'm sure suicide has existed as long as we have, but I'm also sure nobody really knows. Religion is not a skill, it is cultural conditioning. But who cares? My arguments make your first post meaningless. You have to look at religion as an effect, not a cause.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26956043 - 09/26/20 12:29 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Religion is not a skill.




Sure it is.

Or does your dog know how to Religion?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26956056 - 09/26/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

both 'skills' or mental occupations are really messed up IMO.

If wishes were real...

I tend to veer around them.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26956131 - 09/26/20 01:29 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Well the Death Wish is very real about as real as it gets.  Or maybe its not.  You know what, we should construct a God and then the death wish isn't real.  We wouldn't effectively die then.  Use sentience to our advantage and combat self awareness that may seek to destroy us.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26956167 - 09/26/20 01:47 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

i suppose it must be real then. have to put up with it.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26956237 - 09/26/20 02:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Seriously, historically and presently you don’t recognize a death instinct?  Are you guys not paying attention.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26956262 - 09/26/20 03:06 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'm listening, I'm watching, I'm instinctual. I die easily every night.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26956436 - 09/26/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Here is a hot take.  The Death impulse, that which seeks self annihilation and non existence (death wish), and the Religious impulse, that which places hope and faith in a transcendent being, are very close companions.

Both look beyond the self and the world.  Death impulse goes to it directly whereas the Religious impulse seeks to cope in the world.  It’s as if the Religious impulse handles the Death impulse and redirects it into something that negates it. 

I think this is how religion started.  Monkeys became relatively self aware of themselves and their world and figured that they could simply take exit whenever convenient.  As a survival mechanism for a sentient species the Religious impulse was born.




It makes sense that they would arise at the same time. I haven't experienced a religious impulse, though as a kid I believed. It was just what I grew up in and was part of the matrix of my reality. It might be more correctly termed magical thinking through learned behavior. I have a niece who is almost 13 and still believes in Santa.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleShenmue
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #26956495 - 09/26/20 06:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

It's best just to accept the fact that life is completely meaningless. If there is a God he obviously doesn't care about us. He probably randomly created the universe and doesn't even know we exist.

When you really think about it would you really want to live forever? This place is a nightmare! What makes you think God can do a better job on the afterlife?


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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: Shenmue]
    #26956741 - 09/26/20 09:28 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

There is a safety circuit in this obviously finite and consciousness-constructed game, at least on this level of it. You can move into a state of bliss and no suffering if you get your mind right. Just do it, because this isn't worth what you think it's worth, or how. It's more like a way for consciousness to keep itself busy.

Sometimes you can reach out to a "higher power" and ask for help, ask it, "make my brain and body work as they should". It won't be the domineering, bellowing God of the scriptures, but something will hear you, possibly just your unconscious mind or discarnate intelligence inherent in this scheme.


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LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: Shenmue]
    #26957090 - 09/27/20 06:48 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shenmue said:
It's best just to accept the fact that life is completely meaningless. If there is a God he obviously doesn't care about us. He probably randomly created the universe and doesn't even know we exist.

When you really think about it would you really want to live forever? This place is a nightmare! What makes you think God can do a better job on the afterlife?




two separate issues. the second - messed up heaven - is wonderfully composed, the first, about meaninglessness, not so much; although both are healthy atheism, some refinement is needed or all you get is more sad.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26957095 - 09/27/20 06:55 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Someone’s got an attitude, aherm.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26957109 - 09/27/20 07:25 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

every mind moment, some attitude prevails, don't you think?


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26957135 - 09/27/20 08:00 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Hear, Hear!


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26957155 - 09/27/20 08:19 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

is it social causes or faulty brain design?


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26957302 - 09/27/20 11:10 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Some of both I guess, but not sure faulty is right. It's fear and our imagination that makes things both unrealistically bad or good.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Religion and Death [Re: Rahz]
    #26957453 - 09/27/20 01:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Some of both I guess, but not sure faulty is right. It's fear and our imagination that makes things both unrealistically bad or good.





Agree.  I used the word skill to deviate away from pro-life bias.  I'm told suicide wasn't always viewed with such negativity throughout history.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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