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OfflineKavalandiaShamasha
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First time grow spawn bag questions
    #26952965 - 09/24/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Hello, I have a few questions and would also like to try and clarify some things since there are always contradictory opinions.

I ordered a "complete" grow kit online. Here are the contents as listed on the website:

2  3LBS  PASTEURIZED GRAIN SPAWN BAGS
2  5LBS PASTEURIZED SPAWN BAGS

2 Spore or Lc syringes of your choice plus needles and alcohol wipes to go

Everything you have to do is inoculation to harvest

First--and I haven't really been able to find info on this-- somewhere on the site I read that the grain bags are great for starting the grow and then transferring the plants from to the regular pasteurized bag once they start to fruit. Since sterilization is so important and the bags are sealed (minus the little sticker-type flap for putting the needle through), I can't really begin to imagine how one would go about transferring them. And, from what I've read here, it sounds like using solely grain is not the best way to ensure a bountiful grow.

I've also read differing things as far as mashing/massaging the bag. It sounds like a good idea to do right before inoculating but I read somewhere on here to massage after 3-14 days once they start to colonize to ensure the mycelium gets mixed all throughout the substrate. And then that person said to repeat this process a few more times. But somewhere else I saw that you should wait until they are 30-40% (not 100% sure how to tell what 30-40% is either), massage once, and then leave it alone to avoid damaging the mycelium. What are your thoughts on this?

The syringes I got appear to be about 11 ccs of LC. How much should I use for a 5lb bag?

Lastly, it sounds like room temperature seems to be fine and light doesn't seem to have much of an effect but it is recommended to introduce the pins to indirect sunlight once they come up. Is that correct? And at any point toward the end of the process, do I want to open the bag up to allow air transfer or I don't need to open them until it is time to harvest?

I am trying to learn as much about this as I can before getting started and appreciate any input.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: KavalandiaShamasha]
    #26953118 - 09/24/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KavalandiaShamasha said:
2  3LBS  PASTEURIZED GRAIN SPAWN BAGS





This right here would make me a bit worried about your source...

Grain spawn should be sterilized.  Normally you would inoculate it with the syringe, and once it's fully colonized, mix it in with the substrate (which I guess is what they mean by "PASTEURIZED SPAWN BAGS"??). 

I don't know, it's hard to say.  You really should have come here before you ordered this crap and we could have saved you some money.

But welcome to the Shroomery!! Stick around and do a lot of research and I bet you can find a way to make some use of this stuff.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: Forrester]
    #26953126 - 09/24/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't want to be the first to respond. :lol:

A proper explanation would be quite extensive. First setting straight all the wrong info then explaining proper procedure and terminology... it's a lot, man...

Welcome to the shroomery. We might not coddle you like mommy does but... if you have thick enuff skin, you can learn to grow shrooms.


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Offlinelookintolearn
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: LotKid]
    #26953205 - 09/24/20 06:23 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

If I were you, I'd cut my losses on those premade bags and just try to start with PF tek. You already have the syringes and all you need is some jars, vermiculite, and brown rice flour. I know I read all sorts of crazy things when I started and it was a lot to process the correct way to do things.

To note on a few things you mentioned though:

-Anything premade is usually crap most of the times. You want to make your own bag/jars/ect. because you know what went in there. As Forrester said grains should be sterilized. Also meaning you need to have a Pressure Cooker (PC) if you don't already have one.

-Using solely grain is what most people do on here. There's alot of talk about adding gypsum/coffee/shells/ yada yada but a sure way is to use just one grain to start off with. ex: oats/wild bird seed(WBS), millet, ect.

-When grains are colonizing you will want to disrupt the mycellium (shake, massage bag) to ensure faster colonization as well as to make sure you're not growing a bag of contams. If it doesn't recover, it's not worth spawning.

-Room temp is fine, if you are comfortable the mushrooms are to. And light is technically not needed but you do want it. Indirect sunlight or some cheap 6500k bulbs work great.

-Never open your bags/jars before full colonization. That's like a invite for contam city to pop into your hard work. And if using bags you can spawn them in the bag but you would probably be better off spawning to coco coir in a bulk monotub. Ratios are something you should research if spawning to bulk.

-Lastly, I highly recommend you read through Bod's Cultivation Guides. They are a great place to start for almost all the questions you might have. It doesn't have every nitty gritty question you might have about something super specific but it's where I started and I learn a fuck ton from it.


--------------------
Don't be afraid of feeling the feelings

Lookin to LAGM 2021



Looking to start growing? Read through Bod's Introduction to Everything
Looking to start agar? Start with Alien's Holy Grail
Looking to perfect your transfers? Start with D3monic's Perfect Transfers
Looking for easiest prep to Coir ever? Eat's UNBUCKET Tek
Looking to start LC? Try LI first! Munch's super easy Blenderless LI


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OfflineCocaineBuffet
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: LotKid]
    #26953274 - 09/24/20 06:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:

Welcome to the shroomery. We might not coddle you like mommy does but... if you have thick enuff skin, you can learn to grow shrooms.




And stay away from Reddit! The only thing helpful I got from them is getting pointed to the Shroomery!


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OfflineKavalandiaShamasha
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: Forrester]
    #26953299 - 09/24/20 06:59 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I am not sure if I'm allowed to share the source here but everything is guaranteed to be sterile and the site even has a money back guarantee, so I figured they should be reputable. A trusted friend also recommended the site to me but it was more for the purpose of getting spores.

So the grain bags should be good to go I believe. But it is odd because their pasteurized spawn bags are the main "grow kits" they sell and then the grain bags are included in the "complete kit" I got. But you are night--I wish I came here first. It sounds fairly simple but i also figured the spawn bags would be a good way to start since I've never grown before.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: KavalandiaShamasha]
    #26953322 - 09/24/20 07:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

They'll get your feet in the water, fur sure...


--------------------

:mushroom2: LotKid's PE Tips        :shpongle:    LotKid's Chocolates :mushroom2:
:dancingbear: :dancingbear:


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OfflineKavalandiaShamasha
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: lookintolearn]
    #26953433 - 09/24/20 08:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lookintolearn said:
If I were you, I'd cut my losses on those premade bags and just try to start with PF tek. You already have the syringes and all you need is some jars, vermiculite, and brown rice flour. I know I read all sorts of crazy things when I started and it was a lot to process the correct way to do things.

To note on a few things you mentioned though:

-Anything premade is usually crap most of the times. You want to make your own bag/jars/ect. because you know what went in there. As Forrester said grains should be sterilized. Also meaning you need to have a Pressure Cooker (PC) if you don't already have one.

-Using solely grain is what most people do on here. There's alot of talk about adding gypsum/coffee/shells/ yada yada but a sure way is to use just one grain to start off with. ex: oats/wild bird seed(WBS), millet, ect.

-When grains are colonizing you will want to disrupt the mycellium (shake, massage bag) to ensure faster colonization as well as to make sure you're not growing a bag of contams. If it doesn't recover, it's not worth spawning.

-Room temp is fine, if you are comfortable the mushrooms are to. And light is technically not needed but you do want it. Indirect sunlight or some cheap 6500k bulbs work great.

-Never open your bags/jars before full colonization. That's like a invite for contam city to pop into your hard work. And if using bags you can spawn them in the bag but you would probably be better off spawning to coco coir in a bulk monotub. Ratios are something you should research if spawning to bulk.

-Lastly, I highly recommend you read through Bod's Cultivation Guides. They are a great place to start for almost all the questions you might have. It doesn't have every nitty gritty question you might have about something super specific but it's where I started and I learn a fuck ton from it.





Thanks for the info! The grains should already be all good to go. But what you describe sounds really simple and I will definitely look into it and that tek. But I'll most likely try giving the bags a go since I have them and then get started on doing it the whole DIY way.

Does anybody have any idea how much of the LC would be good to use? I would have just assumed the whole syringe but i saw someone mention somewhere on here that someone else try just using a few CCs and that should be good.

--The thing about never opening the bags until harvest--that is part of what confuses me about the transfer/combination suggested with the pasteurized grain and the other pasteurized mix (it doesn't say on their site what is actually in it); I would have to open the bags to do so. But would that just be something you do as quickly and cleanly as possible and then seal it back up?

I am going to see if it will let me post a pic of the bags. The grain bag looks sort of like a bunch of large chickpeas

...it won't let me upload a .jpg?


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OfflineKavalandiaShamasha
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: CocaineBuffet]
    #26953436 - 09/24/20 08:08 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

CocaineBuffet said:
Quote:

LotKid said:

Welcome to the shroomery. We might not coddle you like mommy does but... if you have thick enuff skin, you can learn to grow shrooms.




And stay away from Reddit! The only thing helpful I got from them is getting pointed to the Shroomery!




I tried posting on reddit and no one ever responded :'( but in the comments somewhere, someone directed me here! :laugh:

It seems like a majority of people have negative opinions about spawn bags, while a few acknowledge that they aren't necessarily bad and may be a good way to start. It just seems like a spawn bag would be the easiest way to make sure as little goes wrong as possible but I accept that the yield may not be what it could be. Spores don't seem very expensive and, since I already have the bags, I figured I'd just see how it goes while I research doing these other, more popular teks


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: KavalandiaShamasha]
    #26953798 - 09/25/20 02:38 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KavalandiaShamasha said:
Does anybody have any idea how much of the LC would be good to use? I would have just assumed the whole syringe but i saw someone mention somewhere on here that someone else try just using a few CCs and that should be good.





So it's not LC you're using, that's a different thing entirely, it's an MS spore syringe (multispore) - and you definitely don't want to use the whole thing.  Use like 1ml of it for each bag.  More isn't better.

Quote:

KavalandiaShamasha said:
--The thing about never opening the bags until harvest--that is part of what confuses me about the transfer/combination suggested with the pasteurized grain and the other pasteurized mix (it doesn't say on their site what is actually in it); I would have to open the bags to do so. But would that just be something you do as quickly and cleanly as possible and then seal it back up?




The danger in opening them is mainly when they are NOT fully colonized.  When they are fully colonized, the mushroom mycelium protects the grains from contamination fairly well.  So yes when the grain spawn is FULLY colonized, it's mixed quickly in open air with a pasteurized substrate. :thumbup:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineKavalandiaShamasha
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: Forrester]
    #26954678 - 09/25/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

KavalandiaShamasha said:
Does anybody have any idea how much of the LC would be good to use? I would have just assumed the whole syringe but i saw someone mention somewhere on here that someone else try just using a few CCs and that should be good.





So it's not LC you're using, that's a different thing entirely, it's an MS spore syringe (multispore) - and you definitely don't want to use the whole thing.  Use like 1ml of it for each bag.  More isn't better.

Quote:

KavalandiaShamasha said:
--The thing about never opening the bags until harvest--that is part of what confuses me about the transfer/combination suggested with the pasteurized grain and the other pasteurized mix (it doesn't say on their site what is actually in it); I would have to open the bags to do so. But would that just be something you do as quickly and cleanly as possible and then seal it back up?




The danger in opening them is mainly when they are NOT fully colonized.  When they are fully colonized, the mushroom mycelium protects the grains from contamination fairly well.  So yes when the grain spawn is FULLY colonized, it's mixed quickly in open air with a pasteurized substrate. :thumbup:




Thanks for the clarification! I thought LC meant liquid culture but suppose I was mistaken.

I am going to go ahead and try inoculating. I guess I will try 1 CC in the grain bag I got and 1 in the regular pasteurized mystery mix I got and see how they go. I can give updates later on if anyone would like.

I read some person say that they recap their syringes and store them in the fridge. Is keeping them cold necessary? They are ensured to be sterile upon arrival but I guess when I use them again I will heat the tip with a flame or wipe them down with alcohol before inoculating.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: KavalandiaShamasha]
    #26954835 - 09/25/20 05:29 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KavalandiaShamasha said:
Thanks for the clarification! I thought LC meant liquid culture but suppose I was mistaken.




No, you weren't mistaken, LC does mean liquid culture.  That's just not what you're using.  You're using a spore syringe.

Quote:

KavalandiaShamasha said:
I read some person say that they recap their syringes and store them in the fridge. Is keeping them cold necessary?




No, it's not necessary.  Flaming the tip between uses is definitely a good idea though.  Before you use it next, flame the tip, then squirt a couple drops through it to cool the needle, then inject.  Do this each time. :thumbup:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineKavalandiaShamasha
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: Forrester]
    #26955297 - 09/25/20 11:56 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

KavalandiaShamasha said:
Thanks for the clarification! I thought LC meant liquid culture but suppose I was mistaken.




No, you weren't mistaken, LC does mean liquid culture.  That's just not what you're using.  You're using a spore syringe.

Quote:

KavalandiaShamasha said:
I read some person say that they recap their syringes and store them in the fridge. Is keeping them cold necessary?




No, it's not necessary.  Flaming the tip between uses is definitely a good idea though.  Before you use it next, flame the tip, then squirt a couple drops through it to cool the needle, then inject.  Do this each time. :thumbup:




I see. Thanks for the info! I went ahead and inoculated the grain bag today. The syringe was much more sensitive than I expected so I probably used 4 CCs or so.

Also...so each of the 2 types of bags I got had the little paper looking filter that allows air exchange. I had assumed that was where I inoculate until I did a little digging. Only the grain bags have the self healing, black plugs on them, so the other pasteurized mix bags must solely be for transferring from grain to tub. On the website I used though, they are listed as "pasteurized spawn bags". So maybe I just got confused being a noob but I assumed that meant you could inoculate and spawn in them.

I think the last few questions I have are:

1. I read something about doing several flushes. I saw a few different comments, one of which mentioned spraying the grain with water and then resealing the bag, while another comment said something about soaking it in water overnight. Doing this allows the chance for another batch to grow, right? It's not for the sake of being able to reuse the grain and inoculating it again?

2. I had heard something about making prints (which to me essentially sounds like, if done properly, I'll never have to buy spores again unless I want new varieties). Once it is time to harvest, do I simply pop a few caps off and lay them on a sheet? Or is this done before it is time to harvest?

3. Drying the harvest--anything special I need to know about this? Can I simply lay them out and let them dry in room temperature?

Thank you all for the input, this has been very helpful :smile:


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: KavalandiaShamasha]
    #26955520 - 09/26/20 03:34 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KavalandiaShamasha said:
Only the grain bags have the self healing, black plugs on them, so the other pasteurized mix bags must solely be for transferring from grain to tub.




Yes, you are correct.  Spawn is inoculated with syringe, colonized, and mixed in the substrate.  These are terms you probably want to learn.  You don't generally put spores directly to a substrate that's why there's no injection ports on those bags.

Quote:

KavalandiaShamasha said:
1. I read something about doing several flushes. I saw a few different comments, one of which mentioned spraying the grain with water and then resealing the bag, while another comment said something about soaking it in water overnight. Doing this allows the chance for another batch to grow, right? It's not for the sake of being able to reuse the grain and inoculating it again?

2. I had heard something about making prints (which to me essentially sounds like, if done properly, I'll never have to buy spores again unless I want new varieties). Once it is time to harvest, do I simply pop a few caps off and lay them on a sheet? Or is this done before it is time to harvest?

3. Drying the harvest--anything special I need to know about this? Can I simply lay them out and let them dry in room temperature?





1. Correct
2. If you want to make prints you probably want to let a couple mushrooms go a little further than harvest point, to where they are dropping spores
3. No.  Get a food dehydrator they are fairly cheap.  There's other methods but people mess them up and I don't recommend, you can search if you want to try those...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineKavalandiaShamasha
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: Forrester]
    #26956138 - 09/26/20 01:32 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

KavalandiaShamasha said:
Only the grain bags have the self healing, black plugs on them, so the other pasteurized mix bags must solely be for transferring from grain to tub.




Yes, you are correct.  Spawn is inoculated with syringe, colonized, and mixed in the substrate.  These are terms you probably want to learn.  You don't generally put spores directly to a substrate that's why there's no injection ports on those bags.

Quote:

KavalandiaShamasha said:
1. I read something about doing several flushes. I saw a few different comments, one of which mentioned spraying the grain with water and then resealing the bag, while another comment said something about soaking it in water overnight. Doing this allows the chance for another batch to grow, right? It's not for the sake of being able to reuse the grain and inoculating it again?

2. I had heard something about making prints (which to me essentially sounds like, if done properly, I'll never have to buy spores again unless I want new varieties). Once it is time to harvest, do I simply pop a few caps off and lay them on a sheet? Or is this done before it is time to harvest?

3. Drying the harvest--anything special I need to know about this? Can I simply lay them out and let them dry in room temperature?





1. Correct
2. If you want to make prints you probably want to let a couple mushrooms go a little further than harvest point, to where they are dropping spores
3. No.  Get a food dehydrator they are fairly cheap.  There's other methods but people mess them up and I don't recommend, you can search if you want to try those...




I see. Thanks! And for the flushes, I only want to use distilled or spring water, right? And then just keep repeating that until it stops producing and then toss out the grain?

I'm still not sure how to be certain it is harvest time yet so I will need to research that. But theoretically, I could harvest a majority and then leave some of the better looking ones, reseal the bag, and harvest those once stuff starts falling out of them? There's no chance it will get contaminated in that process since they are already at the harvesting point? And does allowing them to stay in the bag even though they're ready to be harvested effect anything, like psilocybin content?

I will look into a food dehydrator :smile:


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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: KavalandiaShamasha]
    #26956291 - 09/26/20 03:25 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

does it really claim that the grain spawn is "pasteurized" and not sterilized?  this is a big difference but I see that you used the terms interchangeably above so maybe they were sterilized?  if not that would be problematic


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396


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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: TedsDead]
    #26956300 - 09/26/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

"During a gold rush is a great time to be in the pick and shovel business."

-Said by Someone


--------------------

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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: LotKid]
    #26956312 - 09/26/20 03:41 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

it is known:lol:


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396


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OfflineGTEED
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: TedsDead]
    #26956764 - 09/26/20 09:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Bump


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OfflineKavalandiaShamasha
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Re: First time grow spawn bag questions [Re: TedsDead]
    #26957427 - 09/27/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TedsDead said:
does it really claim that the grain spawn is "pasteurized" and not sterilized?  this is a big difference but I see that you used the terms interchangeably above so maybe they were sterilized?  if not that would be problematic




I should have looked at this a while ago. For some reason, this info is not listed under the kit I ordered but is stated in the website under their grain bag listings:

"We prepare our organic grain spawn by thoroughly rinsing the grains, then soaking them for 18 hours in a gypsum-fortified water bath to ensure optimal moisture and mineral levels. Immediately after the soak, the grain is simmered for 10 minutes in distilled water. The rye berries are then sterilized at 15 PSI in a lab-grade autoclave for a complete 120 minutes.


Our grain spawn comes heat-sealed in a sterile, filter-patch mycobag with injection port and can be stored at room temperature for up to 14 days before use."

This is also the first time I am seeing the last sentence...I am pretty sure the bags sat longer than 14 days :\


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