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Yokal
Stranger
Registered: 09/17/20
Posts: 582
Last seen: 9 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26954460 - 09/25/20 12:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bicyclist should be mowed down, theyre homeless people on wheels.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: Yokal]
#26954481 - 09/25/20 01:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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you mean like in general everywhere? I disagree.
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Yokal
Stranger
Registered: 09/17/20
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26954496 - 09/25/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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The kids especially ialky
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birdeatingspider
Stranger in Paradise



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,070
Loc: so many roads
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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said: Isn't ironic? Don't cha think?
A little too ironic, and yeah I really do think...
Quote:
Niffla said:
Quote:
Psion said: it does mention that the hamlets name predates WWII, and that the name has meaning for the residents. whether they're hindu or not doesn't really matter - it's part of the towns culture. i can understand that fully, living here in the upper penninsula of michigan - there's an entire culture dedicated to the UP. you can buy merchandise of all sorts, from necklaces to candy, licence plates to clothing... EVERYTHING you can think of. all of it related to the "yooper" lifestyle.
Yoopers!! I know all about Yoopers. Just about all of my Dad's side of the family is in Michigan not far from the Upper Peninsula. I think it would be cool to get a cabin up there someday in the UP.
I had a roomate from the Upper Peninsula when I was in fl. One of the nicest people I've ever met.
Quote:
BrotherDekatessera said:
Quote:
AlphaStar said: I think it's more like Emerson and Thoreau, getting into Indian stuff..
This is also just an outsider though.
I think the central points are, this had nothing to do with Nazism, it was named long time ago.
I would say it's a little bowing to the people who co-opted the symbol to try to change the name. It clearly means a lot to them.
It's unfortunate that all this happened, but I think the main thing is, if you change it you're really allowing the people who co-opted it, yeah, Nazism and the whole schebang, to win the day.
It's a sacred, holy symbol in Hinduism. We've seen it primarily associated with other things, but that's because of our distance, geographically, from India.
The bottom line is, they named the town based on a symbol which to them means well-being, etc.
I agree with you in general, but the whole "its a hindu symbol" thing is a myth.
it is part of hinduism but the historical fact is that the Aryan tribes passed it on to the tribes in the area where hindus now use the symbol. One of the central sites of the early Aryan tribes was in the ukraine, where they attached spiritual significance to the naturally occuring flames at gas vents in the rock. the earliest known depictions of the symbol occur there. far older than any in the hindu regions. It is an ancient Aryan symbol and that context is the context in which the NSDAP chose to use the symbol.
to say it is a "stolen" or "corrupted" hindu symbol is simply not true.
Now Im not going to say that I back Hitler's philosophy, but as a history nerd Im well aware of how they saw the symbol, and it wasnt "corrupted" or a sign of anything involving supremacy etc. They viewed it the same way their ancient Aryan ancestors did. to just put it in the context of " bad people use symbol, this mean symbol bad and corrupt" is lower than elementary.
5 more days!!
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From all I may be, or have been before, To mingle with the Universe, and feel What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,732
Loc: Texas
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: birdeatingspider]
#26954632 - 09/25/20 02:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
birdeatingspider said:
I had a roomate from the Upper Peninsula when I was in fl. One of the nicest people I've ever met.
I think Jeff Daniels is a yooper if I'm not mistaken
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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AlphaStar
Hoping for a mystery


Registered: 06/10/20
Posts: 167
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: Niffla]
#26954663 - 09/25/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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So what is a yooper, what is UP?
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AlphaStar
Hoping for a mystery


Registered: 06/10/20
Posts: 167
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Quote:
BrotherDekatessera said:
Quote:
AlphaStar said: I think it's more like Emerson and Thoreau, getting into Indian stuff..
This is also just an outsider though.
I think the central points are, this had nothing to do with Nazism, it was named long time ago.
I would say it's a little bowing to the people who co-opted the symbol to try to change the name. It clearly means a lot to them.
It's unfortunate that all this happened, but I think the main thing is, if you change it you're really allowing the people who co-opted it, yeah, Nazism and the whole schebang, to win the day.
It's a sacred, holy symbol in Hinduism. We've seen it primarily associated with other things, but that's because of our distance, geographically, from India.
The bottom line is, they named the town based on a symbol which to them means well-being, etc.
I agree with you in general, but the whole "its a hindu symbol" thing is a myth.
it is part of hinduism but the historical fact is that the Aryan tribes passed it on to the tribes in the area where hindus now use the symbol. One of the central sites of the early Aryan tribes was in the ukraine, where they attached spiritual significance to the naturally occuring flames at gas vents in the rock. the earliest known depictions of the symbol occur there. far older than any in the hindu regions. It is an ancient Aryan symbol and that context is the context in which the NSDAP chose to use the symbol.
to say it is a "stolen" or "corrupted" hindu symbol is simply not true.
Now Im not going to say that I back Hitler's philosophy, but as a history nerd Im well aware of how they saw the symbol, and it wasnt "corrupted" or a sign of anything involving supremacy etc. They viewed it the same way their ancient Aryan ancestors did. to just put it in the context of " bad people use symbol, this mean symbol bad and corrupt" is lower than elementary.
I didn't see this til later.
Symbol and word are not always the same. The word comes from Sanskrit and especially as this was what they said, it makes sense.
It's also in Buddhism and Jainism, but yes it appears to be from Indo European origin.
However, anything over 11,000 years is going to be muddy.
I would say it appears we agree on the main points.
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,732
Loc: Texas
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: AlphaStar]
#26954669 - 09/25/20 03:22 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlphaStar said: So what is a yooper, what is UP?
The "UP" is the upper peninsula of Michigan. People who live there are often referred to as "yoopers".
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: Niffla] 2
#26954689 - 09/25/20 03:38 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Insanity here as ever.
That area was named in the 1800s. The Nazi party didn't adopt it as a symbol until 1920. There is no relation.
The symbol is ancient and was used in both cases based on this heritage. Why would you allow one group to appropriate it for perpetuity?
The swastika also happens to be a Navajo symbol for good luck, also translated to "whirling log". The symbol was used on state road signs in Arizona. Navajo were actually key to the US WW2 war effort, should we tell them to change their symbolism?
Get woke Navajo
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BrotherDekatessera
Stranger
Registered: 09/24/20
Posts: 46
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: birdeatingspider]
#26967539 - 10/03/20 12:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
birdeatingspider said:
5 more days!!
wut?
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BrotherDekatessera
Stranger
Registered: 09/24/20
Posts: 46
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: AlphaStar]
#26967549 - 10/03/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlphaStar said:
Quote:
BrotherDekatessera said:
Quote:
AlphaStar said: I think it's more like Emerson and Thoreau, getting into Indian stuff..
This is also just an outsider though.
I think the central points are, this had nothing to do with Nazism, it was named long time ago.
I would say it's a little bowing to the people who co-opted the symbol to try to change the name. It clearly means a lot to them.
It's unfortunate that all this happened, but I think the main thing is, if you change it you're really allowing the people who co-opted it, yeah, Nazism and the whole schebang, to win the day.
It's a sacred, holy symbol in Hinduism. We've seen it primarily associated with other things, but that's because of our distance, geographically, from India.
The bottom line is, they named the town based on a symbol which to them means well-being, etc.
I agree with you in general, but the whole "its a hindu symbol" thing is a myth.
it is part of hinduism but the historical fact is that the Aryan tribes passed it on to the tribes in the area where hindus now use the symbol. One of the central sites of the early Aryan tribes was in the ukraine, where they attached spiritual significance to the naturally occuring flames at gas vents in the rock. the earliest known depictions of the symbol occur there. far older than any in the hindu regions. It is an ancient Aryan symbol and that context is the context in which the NSDAP chose to use the symbol.
to say it is a "stolen" or "corrupted" hindu symbol is simply not true.
Now Im not going to say that I back Hitler's philosophy, but as a history nerd Im well aware of how they saw the symbol, and it wasnt "corrupted" or a sign of anything involving supremacy etc. They viewed it the same way their ancient Aryan ancestors did. to just put it in the context of " bad people use symbol, this mean symbol bad and corrupt" is lower than elementary.
I didn't see this til later.
Symbol and word are not always the same. The word comes from Sanskrit and especially as this was what they said, it makes sense.
It's also in Buddhism and Jainism, but yes it appears to be from Indo European origin.
However, anything over 11,000 years is going to be muddy.
I would say it appears we agree on the main points.
I was just clarifying because I get sick of EVERYTHING white people do or use being accused of being stolen from somewhere else. its pure propaganda and not supported by any history outside of marxist creative writing passed off as history. The whole "this symbol was stolen from hindus" is just one piece of that idiotic puzzle, and it pisses me off when people disrespect the spiritual paths of my ancestors because its hip and cool to talk shit about europeans and be a self hating loser in 2020. The symbol derives from my ancestors and I am more or less bound to ensure that at the least, this is brought up when the opposing lie is brought up.
no personal attack on you, just speaking my piece on the subject for anyone reading the thread.
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,604
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 1 minute, 10 seconds
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Hitler dindu nuffin!
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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stimpson
a superhero buddha



Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 1,336
Loc: ny
Last seen: 3 days, 7 hours
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#26967609 - 10/03/20 01:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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where do you guys live?
i live in NY, and actually it's quite common for houses on the outskirts of cities, outskirts of suburbia, in more rural areas, to fly german flags instead of american flags. now, that's not a swastika... maybe it's a NY thing. i haven't spent enough time in any other state besides jersey to really know.
also, just to raise the point, that swastika that is allegedly a hindu or buddhist symbol can be seen in architecture that predates those cultures; for example, the temple at baalbek in lebanon. that is greek/roman/persian territory and the structures were built in egyptian times.
edit: i shouldn't say "predate" since i'm sure it would be debated that the upanishads predated everyone else or something. there was probably a regular exchange of "stuff" via travelers anyway.
check out baalbek:
Edited by stimpson (10/03/20 01:14 PM)
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JizzMasterZero
Stranger


Registered: 11/30/16
Posts: 772
Last seen: 11 months, 21 days
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: stimpson] 1
#26967705 - 10/03/20 02:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you don’t like the town of Swastika, don’t fucking go there, don’t do business with people there. Why do people suddenly have a problem with it now, and demand that the residents change the name to suit others that don’t live there? The residents should vote on it, and if they decide to keep the name everybody else needs to fuck off.
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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 11 months, 7 days
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: JizzMasterZero]
#26967713 - 10/03/20 02:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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not my circus, not my monkeys
if it was me though I'd feel very weird living in a town called swastika, religious and cultural significance aside Nazi's did sort of ruin it for the rest of us
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stimpson
a superhero buddha



Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 1,336
Loc: ny
Last seen: 3 days, 7 hours
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: Ezuma]
#26967718 - 10/03/20 02:20 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ezuma said: not my circus, not my monkeys
if it was me though I'd feel very weird living in a town called swastika, religious and cultural significance aside Nazi's did sort of ruin it for the rest of us 
they were a bit crass weren't they
-------------------- uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhmmmm... ... ... ok.
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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



Registered: 12/02/13
Posts: 8,423
Loc: Roke
Last seen: 11 months, 7 days
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: stimpson]
#26967726 - 10/03/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
stimpson said:
Quote:
Ezuma said: not my circus, not my monkeys
if it was me though I'd feel very weird living in a town called swastika, religious and cultural significance aside Nazi's did sort of ruin it for the rest of us 
they were a bit crass weren't they
utterly tasteless
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BrotherDekatessera
Stranger
Registered: 09/24/20
Posts: 46
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: stimpson]
#26983441 - 10/13/20 02:00 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
stimpson said: where do you guys live?
i live in NY, and actually it's quite common for houses on the outskirts of cities, outskirts of suburbia, in more rural areas, to fly german flags instead of american flags. now, that's not a swastika... maybe it's a NY thing. i haven't spent enough time in any other state besides jersey to really know.
also, just to raise the point, that swastika that is allegedly a hindu or buddhist symbol can be seen in architecture that predates those cultures; for example, the temple at baalbek in lebanon. that is greek/roman/persian territory and the structures were built in egyptian times.
edit: i shouldn't say "predate" since i'm sure it would be debated that the upanishads predated everyone else or something. there was probably a regular exchange of "stuff" via travelers anyway.
check out baalbek:
I was born in NY, but I live in the midwest, most of the midwest is Norse.
ukraine is the earliest known representation of the symbol, at the site of early aryan tribes. it is undoubtedly an aryan symbol that migrated to other cultures.
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yeah


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
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this vid is too long to watch but lmk if you can debunk this supposed debunking
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Edited by yeah (10/27/20 12:32 AM)
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,584
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Re: Swastika new york refuses to change its name. [Re: yeah]
#27005948 - 10/27/20 09:36 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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There's some confusion about the Aryan migrations because some current Indian movements seek to separate their history from colonial archeology, because early European archeologists misinterpreted quite a bit early on and because the Nazis used some of these early misinterpretations and ran with them to form its own mythological identity. Not to mention how long ago the migrations were and how mixed up they get with Indian mythology.
A Neolithic group called the Aryans did migrate into North India 3500 - 4000 years ago, and did have an effect on the bronze age culture that had already been established in the continent. The vast majority of these migrants were male according to DNA evidence, and brought their language with them into India.
Easy to get lost in the sauce when interpretations and semantics involved have political ramifications for some groups. A lot is semantic.
A large part of some groups of Indians desiring to completely separate from the idea is Europeans in the early part of the 20th century claiming some sort of direct lineage to Aryan civilizations (English, Germans and others), interpreting modern Indians as distinctly non-Aryan themselves, and other mismanaged interpretations over the centuries.
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