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nektar61



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Gypsum or not in sub? 1
#26954400 - 09/25/20 12:07 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Some TCs don't use gypsum. Some do. Some of them use no gypsum, but use something other than coir / verm.
Is there a 2020 consensus on gypsum or not?
I'm wondering if it ended up in the older recommendations for no good reason.
Maybe in the 80s some Hank Hill who grew a beautiful lawn in clay soil by adding gypsum thought it belonged in shroom sub, and wrote it up. It sounded smart so people ran with it.
Psilocybin, psilocin, and Baeocystin contain no sulfur, so I don't see why shrooms would need gypsum. Gypsum is mostly used for poor soil outdoors, and verm / coir seems like a good "soil."
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, I'm basically taking a poll of people to see what the current best practice is.
Is just using coir with verm good? What's your take on that, and on gypsum, and whether it's needed or not.
Thank you.
Edited by nektar61 (09/25/20 04:57 PM)
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bebop
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 1
#26954414 - 09/25/20 12:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm here for the results. I have some Gypsum I was planning to use with Rye Berries per RR, but I don't even understand it's benefit there, let alone with coir
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Josex
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 2
#26954420 - 09/25/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I add it if I have it, but usually I don't have any gypsum with me. Can't notice much of a difference with vs without, certainly not in performance. It does seem to me that gypsum improves the consistency and texture of the substrate somewhat, but that could be my imagination playing tricks on me.
For cubes, we mainly use gypsum to adjust the pH of peat based casing material (for PE vatieties that benefit from it), becuase gypsum adds sulfur and calcium carbonate which helps to stabilize PH levels, as well as adding minerals that the colony can use for fruit formation.
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nektar61



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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: Josex]
#26954626 - 09/25/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said: For cubes, we mainly use gypsum to adjust the pH of peat based casing material (for PE vatieties that benefit from it), becuase gypsum adds sulfur and calcium carbonate which helps to stabilize PH levels, as well as adding minerals that the colony can use for fruit formation.
Thank you.
Would you skip it for B+? What about for Texas Orange Cap? and for AA+?
(I'm agar-ing those now.)
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LotKid
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 2
#26954691 - 09/25/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wouldnt bother with the gypsum
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Josex
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: LotKid]
#26954729 - 09/25/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
nektar61 said:
Quote:
Josex said: For cubes, we mainly use gypsum to adjust the pH of peat based casing material (for PE vatieties that benefit from it), becuase gypsum adds sulfur and calcium carbonate which helps to stabilize PH levels, as well as adding minerals that the colony can use for fruit formation.
Thank you.
Would you skip it for B+? What about for Texas Orange Cap? and for AA+?
(I'm agar-ing those now.)
Those are all cubes, they need the same things and the same fruiting parameters and gypsum is a completely optional additive that won't do much if anything at all.
Quote:
LotKid said: I wouldnt bother with the gypsum
. Unless you're making a casing for PE varieties, but even then the gypsum it's not a "make it or break it" kinda deal, it's just there to help stabilize PH levels.
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: Josex] 2
#26954755 - 09/25/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have never ever ever seen a difference in yield, quality of fruit, potency.... orgasm intensity.... from gypsum vs none. The only thing i think it does help with is avoiding clumpy grain. But even that is just a noob mistake that can be avoided with no gypsum and a little practice. I bought a huge bag when i was new and i still have some. I throw it in sometimes but that's mainly just to use it up and clear up some space.
I do not think it's needed at all. Coir and verm for me.
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Tormato  
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Gypsum
-------------------- Helpful Threads The Shroomery Store Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me! "Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!
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nektar61



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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: LotKid]
#26954768 - 09/25/20 04:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LotKid said: I wouldnt bother with the gypsum
Thank you!
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nektar61



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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: I have never ever ever seen a difference in yield, quality of fruit, potency.... orgasm intensity.... from gypsum vs none. The only thing i think it does help with is avoiding clumpy grain. But even that is just a noob mistake that can be avoided with no gypsum and a little practice. I bought a huge bag when i was new and i still have some. I throw it in sometimes but that's mainly just to use it up and clear up some space.
I do not think it's needed at all. Coir and verm for me.
Thank you.
I bought a 10-kilo bag. I guess when I move out my roommate will wonder why there's a 20-kilo bag of gypsum in the back of his garage. lol.
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 1
#26954808 - 09/25/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just use it up. It certainly doesn't hurt. Plus, then you can start a rainbow rumor that'll take us years to debunk. Just make sure it's nice and impossible to prove or disprove. Like when you dose a friend, tell them that they'll have enjoyable but slightly frightening memories of the child hood surface exactly when the trip is at 42% power. This is obviously because of the increase in particular actives that is created by the interactions between the gypsum and the snail jizz.
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nektar61



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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: Just use it up. It certainly doesn't hurt. Plus, then you can start a rainbow rumor that'll take us years to debunk. Just make sure it's nice and impossible to prove or disprove. Like when you dose a friend, tell them that they'll have enjoyable but slightly frightening memories of the child hood surface exactly when the trip is at 42% power. This is obviously because of the increase in particular actives that is created by the interactions between the gypsum and the snail jizz.
That's hilarious.
But what's a rainbow rumor ?
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 1
#26954880 - 09/25/20 06:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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well, the rainbow family uses them to describe wild shit you hear but can never verify at a gathering but i like to call what we do "rainbow farming" so i used it a little differently.
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CocaineBuffet
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I have not found a use for gypsum when growing cubes.
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Tormato  
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Quote:
CocaineBuffet said: I have not found a use for gypsum when growing cubes.
It's old info...no real gain or loss honestly....just one more step
-------------------- Helpful Threads The Shroomery Store Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me! "Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!
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CocaineBuffet
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: Tormato] 2
#26954967 - 09/25/20 07:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tormato said:
Quote:
CocaineBuffet said: I have not found a use for gypsum when growing cubes.
It's old info...no real gain or loss honestly....just one more step 
Agreed. I bought some thinking it was an important element in the hobby and have yet to open the bag.
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nektar61



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Quote:
CocaineBuffet said:
Quote:
Tormato said:
Quote:
CocaineBuffet said: I have not found a use for gypsum when growing cubes.
It's old info...no real gain or loss honestly....just one more step 
Agreed. I bought some thinking it was an important element in the hobby and have yet to open the bag.
For everyone with a 20 kilo bag of gypsum like me, it can be used to make homemade toothpaste, if anyone wants to give Toms of Maine a run.
Shroom toothpaste anyone?
"PSILOPASTE! Start the day right! Swallow! Don't spit!"
Oh, "CocaineBuffet" is a hilarious handle.
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maxmush
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61]
#26955159 - 09/25/20 09:52 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Maybe i am in the minority, but i find gypsum is beneficial. The sub consistency is better, the slight pH buffering seems to help with controlling (not eliminating) some contams and i find the fruits to look healthier. This is by no means a scientific observation and it's purely anecdotal. Its a cheap and simple addition to the sub. I am not an outspoken advocate or anything, just my experiences with it.
-------------------- Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: maxmush] 2
#26955162 - 09/25/20 09:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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get back to us in a few years
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nektar61



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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: get back to us in a few years
lol.
So do you think it doesn't even help with contams?
I'm not fighting to use it. Just want to know if it is useless, which it looks like from the response here from long-time users and TCs.
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 1
#26955235 - 09/25/20 10:59 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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i've seen no proof of contam resistance from gypsum use. If it did, i suppose the answers here would be wholly different
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nektar61



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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: Josex]
#26955243 - 09/25/20 11:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said: Those are all cubes, they need the same things and the same fruiting parameters and gypsum is a completely optional additive that won't do much if anything at all.....
Is gypsum useful for exotic species? If so I'll keep it for when I get thee.
If not, I'll take it to the farmers' market and trade it for some apples or something like that.
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LotKid
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61]
#26955552 - 09/26/20 04:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I used to use it... i dont anymore.
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nektar61



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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: LotKid]
#26955594 - 09/26/20 05:43 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LotKid said: I used to use it... i dont anymore.
We're 9/0 so far, from a bunch of active and respected members with years on here.
I'm convinced. Just say no to gypsum. Friends don't let friends use gypsum. We can stamp out gypsum in our lifetimes.
I still think some zealous lawn guy dropped it into the mix back in the day, and it just became an urban myth.
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Forrester
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 1
#26955605 - 09/26/20 05:53 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Never noticed a difference with or without it.
Even as recently as 4-5 years ago people were still preaching using it, some anyway.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Tormato  
The Goddess Kali Meh 😛




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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 1
#26955656 - 09/26/20 07:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
nektar61 said: So do you think it doesn't even help with contams?
I don't
-------------------- Helpful Threads The Shroomery Store Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me! "Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!
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SingularFusion


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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: Tormato] 1
#26955676 - 09/26/20 07:29 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have done tubs with it, and without it, no discernable difference that I could tell
if you have some around I encourage you to try some out for yourself but I wouldn't rush out to buy any or anything
can't imagine how it would make any difference to contamination rates one way or the other
all the best with it
-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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maxmush
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 1
#26955851 - 09/26/20 10:11 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am not sure if that comment was productive by any means, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. By marginalizing my comments and experiences, you arent being conducive to a constructive discussion. I believe this forum is intended for that and correct me if i am wrong? My way or the highway attitudes do not get you anywhere my friend and i mean this respectfully. There is no need to attempt to offend someone if they are trying to further a discussion and actually help.
Anyway, gypsum is NOT useless and outdated. It is merely a decision for the cultivator if the benefits are worth their time and resources. It certainly does NOT detract in any way. Throwing in some powder in a sub while you mix it doesnt seem like a big deal everyone is making it out to be. Try it on some and delete in on others and see if you like it for yourself
-------------------- Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.
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nektar61



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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: maxmush]
#26955916 - 09/26/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
maxmush said: I am not sure if that comment was productive by any means, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. By marginalizing my comments and experiences, you arent being conducive to a constructive discussion. I believe this forum is intended for that and correct me if i am wrong? My way or the highway attitudes do not get you anywhere my friend and i mean this respectfully. There is no need to attempt to offend someone if they are trying to further a discussion and actually help.
Anyway, gypsum is NOT useless and outdated. It is merely a decision for the cultivator if the benefits are worth their time and resources. It certainly does NOT detract in any way. Throwing in some powder in a sub while you mix it doesnt seem like a big deal everyone is making it out to be. Try it on some and delete in on others and see if you like it for yourself 
You replied to me with this post. I have no idea what I said to tick you off but I didn't say anything disparaging to you.
Or were you replying to Offlineverum subsequentis but accidentally tagged me?
I don't think he was being mean, just straightforward. 9 people with years of experience replied on here that gypsum is a waste, including some trusted cultivators. I put too much on my first grow and almost killed it. And by too much I mean 1.5x recommended amount.
I think anyone at this date saying gypsum IS good and useful for cubes should do the double blind tests and post pix if they feel that strongly about it.
Confused I am with your response.
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61]
#26956016 - 09/26/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
I don't think he was being mean, just straightforward
That's how I roll. For me, the concept of gypsum being beneficial came from ol roger rabbit. I tried it a lot and tried without it a lot. Nowadays i just keep it around and throw it in my grain sometimes.
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LotKid
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I'm pretty sure the whole gypsum is beneficial thing is originally from Stamets.
If that's wrong then show us...
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: LotKid] 1
#26956247 - 09/26/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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me?
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LotKid
Never.Trust.A.Prankster


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Yes, you!
seriously tho.. more speaking in general...
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Quote:
verum subsequentis said:
Quote:
I don't think he was being mean, just straightforward
For me, the concept of gypsum being beneficial came from ol roger rabbit.
I'll do no such thing simply because i have no fucks to give. I told you were I got it from. Hence the "for me" part of the post.
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LotKid
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Yeah, I have no qualms with how you said it. I'm just throwing info out there that I believe the info is originally from Stamets is all. I love you, buddy.
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: LotKid]
#26956320 - 09/26/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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LotKid
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Mycolorado
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: LotKid] 1
#26956398 - 09/26/20 04:44 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, it’s definitely from Stamets. He mentions adding it to spawn for button mushrooms and that’s it’s optional for everything else. He also used it in straw sub that has chicken shit in it to reduce its greasiness, iirc. It’s been 20 years since I looked the the mushroom cultivator, but if anyone feels like checking, they can do so here.
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CocaineBuffet
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 1
#26956547 - 09/26/20 06:41 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
nektar61 said:
Oh, "CocaineBuffet" is a hilarious handle.
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Profbri
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61]
#26956626 - 09/26/20 07:46 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I thought gypsum was used w grain to keep it from sticking together?
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Profbri
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I've heard that.
Snail jizz is a perpetual problem.
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: Profbri] 1
#26956634 - 09/26/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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It can be used for that but proper grain prep renders it non essential at best
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Profbri
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: Mycolorado]
#26956643 - 09/26/20 08:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycolorado said: Yeah, it’s definitely from Stamets. He mentions adding it to spawn for button mushrooms and that’s it’s optional for everything else. He also used it in straw sub that has chicken shit in it to reduce its greasiness, iirc. It’s been 20 years since I looked the the mushroom cultivator, but if anyone feels like checking, they can do so here.
Thanks dude, that's a good download to have. Doubleplusgood on you.
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Vinci
I'm You



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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: Profbri]
#26956648 - 09/26/20 08:03 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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A wise mycologist once said, "dude, just put the fucking coir in the bucket"
-------------------- Vinci luh you
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nektar61



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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: Profbri]
#26956775 - 09/26/20 09:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Profbri said: I thought gypsum was used w grain to keep it from sticking together?
That's what they used to say. But
1. Doesn't the verm do that?
2. Does it matter if if it sticks? mycelium can still get through it. Maybe even faster if it's stuck together because there are more contact points?
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verum subsequentis
seeker of truth



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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 2
#26956783 - 09/26/20 09:58 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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no and no
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nektar61



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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: Vinci]
#26956841 - 09/26/20 11:13 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vinci said: A wise mycologist once said, "dude, just put the fucking coir in the bucket"
IT PUTS THE COIR IN THE BUCKET.
Ok, I'm picturing an odd sequel to that movie...
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nektar61



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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: no and no
What in particular do you recommend in grain prep to prevent clumping.
I've only used brown rice, and it does clump.
Thank you.
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61]
#26956846 - 09/26/20 11:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quit using rice. Don't over cook. Dry properly.
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nektar61



Registered: 07/04/20
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Quote:
verum subsequentis said: Quit using rice. Don't over cook. Dry properly.
Do you use oats?
Do you even cook? I thought the idea is to just PC for an hour to kill germs and endospores, but not cook.
Do you have a link for the tek you use, whether you wrote it or not?
Thank you.
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maxmush
Always learning...

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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61]
#26956919 - 09/27/20 12:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
nektar61 said:
Quote:
maxmush said: I am not sure if that comment was productive by any means, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. By marginalizing my comments and experiences, you arent being conducive to a constructive discussion. I believe this forum is intended for that and correct me if i am wrong? My way or the highway attitudes do not get you anywhere my friend and i mean this respectfully. There is no need to attempt to offend someone if they are trying to further a discussion and actually help.
Anyway, gypsum is NOT useless and outdated. It is merely a decision for the cultivator if the benefits are worth their time and resources. It certainly does NOT detract in any way. Throwing in some powder in a sub while you mix it doesnt seem like a big deal everyone is making it out to be. Try it on some and delete in on others and see if you like it for yourself 
You replied to me with this post. I have no idea what I said to tick you off but I didn't say anything disparaging to you.
Or were you replying to Offlineverum subsequentis but accidentally tagged me?
I don't think he was being mean, just straightforward. 9 people with years of experience replied on here that gypsum is a waste, including some trusted cultivators. I put too much on my first grow and almost killed it. And by too much I mean 1.5x recommended amount.
I think anyone at this date saying gypsum IS good and useful for cubes should do the double blind tests and post pix if they feel that strongly about it.
Confused I am with your response.
My comment was directed to verum. I think his comment "see us in a few years" subsequent to my post isnt really constructive and slightly condescending.
Honestly I am not a sensitive person and it's truly indifferent to me. I should have just said nothing lol, but this thread was for input.
As i previously mentioned, i am not some sort of advocate for it but i do find it useful and it certainly didn't detract from anything.
Anyway try it out and see for yourself (or dont lol). That's truly the best way to know
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sporecap
Shedding...

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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 1
#26956996 - 09/27/20 03:51 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
nektar61 said:
Quote:
verum subsequentis said: Quit using rice. Don't over cook. Dry properly.
Do you use oats?
Do you even cook? I thought the idea is to just PC for an hour to kill germs and endospores, but not cook.
Do you have a link for the tek you use, whether you wrote it or not?
Thank you.
BOD's Easy AF OAT prep tek. BOD's Easy AF how to use your pressure cooker for mycology TEK You can replace oats by any other grain you have locally available, wheat, millet, rye, milo, etc all work. But don't use rice, it will make a sticky block that's impossible to shake.
Edited by sporecap (09/27/20 03:52 AM)
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LotKid
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: sporecap] 1
#26957036 - 09/27/20 04:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oats sucks super myco balls. Rye or wheaf if you can get it. I'll use bird food before i use oats
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nektar61



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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: LotKid]
#26957531 - 09/27/20 02:13 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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LotKid said: Oats sucks super myco balls. Rye or wheaf if you can get it. I'll use bird food before i use oats
lol. Why don't you like oats?
I took your advice and got some rye berries at a health food store.
thank you
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The Fresh Prints
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 1
#26957578 - 09/27/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I really should experiment with different grains. I thought oats were pretty standard around here, but I've seen a lot of shade being thrown at them lately. Oats always work great for me, but my local feed store has a lot of cheap options.
Anyone ever use Azure? They have 50lb bags of milo for $23.09 and delivery is free if you're willing to pick it up at a feed store.
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LotKid
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Grain price flucuates like the stock market or crypto. I ususally pay anywhere from $14-18 per bushel (56lb) of rye.
I dont like oats because of the hulls.
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verum subsequentis
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: LotKid] 1
#26958022 - 09/27/20 09:27 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I use wheat. Put in water, turn on heat, cook until internally hydrated dump on screen to dry before many start to pop. I don't use a tek. You just learn to see what's what. Fully hydrate without over cooking "popping too many grains", strain till grain is dry, load jars or bags and PC.
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Grimsweeper
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I haven't used gypsum in 2 years but if I did I'd put it in the grain not the sub to make it easier to break up. That being said if you have clean spawn it should break up very easily.
Quote:
verum subsequentis said: I use wheat. Put in water, turn on heat, cook until internally hydrated dump on screen to dry before many start to pop. I don't use a tek. You just learn to see what's what. Fully hydrate without over cooking "popping too many grains", strain till grain is dry, load jars or bags and PC.
I'd love to try wheat but I cant get it locally and it stupid expensive online.
I agree with verum though. Get a feel for your grain and it'll become 2nd nature. I rock hundreds of #'s of oats and now its nearly impossible to fuck up once you get shit dailed in.
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nektar61



Registered: 07/04/20
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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: LotKid]
#26958158 - 09/27/20 11:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LotKid said: Grain price flucuates like the stock market or crypto. I ususally pay anywhere from $14-18 per bushel (56lb) of rye.
I dont like oats because of the hulls.
Thank you.
Idea: crypto with price pegged to volatility of a fund based on all the grains used to grow shrooms. And value of said crypto backed by those grains.
I'll take Millet for 300 Monero, Alex.
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Sterben



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Re: Gypsum or not in sub? [Re: nektar61] 1
#26958243 - 09/28/20 02:27 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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You dont need it.
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