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Offlinethealienthatategod
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how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible?
    #26947487 - 09/21/20 09:49 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

i thought this needed it's own thread - not attached to any specific idea.

there's the contradictory and nonsensical logically impossible and imaginary, and then the logically possible that's "far out" and not something that's ordinarily encountered, that most can't bring themselves to believe could ever happen, yet it is logically possible, even if it is imaginary.

what makes something "really" impossible vs. just impossible?  if when something doesn't conform to your established ideas about how the world works, do you consider that thing to be logically impossible or can you consider it to be logically possible despite the fact that it may be radically different then the way you currently entertain the world as it is?



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OfflineKmacmo
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 2
    #26947540 - 09/21/20 10:23 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Really impossible and just impossible are the same thing to me atleast.
There are boundarys (like psychics) that we are constrained to.
For example I believe its impossible for someone to throw a golf ball into space.

But some things we think to be impossible maybe are actually possible we just haven't figured it out yet... As time goes on and things change more and more will be in the possible spectrum.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26947595 - 09/21/20 10:56 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

If something is obnoxiously persistently wrong, then, if you say it is really impossible we know that it is not just the facts that are off, but the perpetrator of the whole line of thought has become thoroughly tiresome.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26947765 - 09/21/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
i thought this needed it's own thread - not attached to any specific idea.

there's the contradictory and nonsensical logically impossible and imaginary, and then the logically possible that's "far out" and not something that's ordinarily encountered, that most can't bring themselves to believe could ever happen, yet it is logically possible, even if it is imaginary.

what makes something "really" impossible vs. just impossible?  if when something doesn't conform to your established ideas about how the world works, do you consider that thing to be logically impossible or can you consider it to be logically possible despite the fact that it may be radically different then the way you currently entertain the world as it is?







Do you want a mathematical answer?
Or a practical everyday common sense answer?
Or a quantum field theory answer?
Or a PT Barnum type answer?

I knew someone who did horoscopes for race horses.
There are those who believe in free energy and spend hours mulling over it.
So it is a good question.

One way to explore it is to watch the movie
"A Beautiful Mind" *
or perhaps to put:
"reality testing"
into a search engine

* "A Beautiful Mind is a 2001 American biographical drama film based on the life of the American mathematician John Nash, a Nobel Laureate in Economics and Abel Prize winner. The film was directed by Ron Howard, from a screenplay written by Akiva Goldsman.It was inspired by the bestselling, Pulitzer Prize-nominated 1998 book of the same name by Sylvia Nasar."

"From the heights of notoriety to the depths ... , John Forbes Nash, Jr. experienced it all. A mathematical genius, he made an astonishing discovery early in his career and stood on the brink of international acclaim. But ... Nash soon found himself on a painful and harrowing journey of self-discovery ..."


Edited by laughingdog (09/21/20 01:04 PM)


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26947784 - 09/21/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Of course in the field of psychology we must consider emotionally based self deception, which makes the whole business much trickier, and is often why folks get into therapy as they can't figure it out on a strictly logical level.


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Offlinepsillyboy
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26948638 - 09/21/20 11:25 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
"True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country - K. Vonnegut

“The real truth, that dare not speak itself, is that no one is in control. Absolutely no one.” ― Terence McKenna

"LSD is a psychedelic drug which occasionally causes psychotic behavior in people who have never taken it." - Timothy Leary


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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: psillyboy] * 1
    #26948654 - 09/21/20 11:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Something like throwing a golf ball into space... so that's just, if we had bigger arms or if space was closer.

Where as impossible is more like, becoming a plant at will.

So that one, maybe technology one day... like a device that bends light, so then, that's not really the actual thing.

Complex questions.

But then,

what is the world? It is only what you're used to. A psychedelic person knows that. So can something not unusual, but unexplainable, literally mysterious, occur?

I think it can become common that mysterious things occur.


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #26949540 - 09/22/20 02:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

does logic open up reality or wall it off?



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26949559 - 09/22/20 03:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

great film  :ohyeahdefinitely:


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #26949681 - 09/22/20 04:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The limits of impossibility must be unknown.  It is a convenient word that works effectively for communicative and practical purposes.  Throwing a golf ball into space etc.  Then logical impossibilities like there is no square circle in existence.  Everything breaks open in the abstract though.  Ambiguity could probably manifest a square circle.  Like if a sentient circle happened to be overly rigid and conservative in its demeanor. 

What I think it boils down to is that if you are going to say that square means this and circle means that.  Then you've effectively created a thing, square circle, that cannot be through language and meaning.  How big of an accomplishment is this?  Idk.  But maybe the laws of logic aren't absolute.  How do you know that the laws of logic are absolute, at least enough to say that there under no circumstances anywhere cannot be a square circle?  Sure from our perspective and for the sake of the almighty Practicality it's works just fine.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #26949713 - 09/22/20 04:31 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

so frequently, it seems, a position is taken, before evidence is even gathered or examined, or reason is engaged with.

may be a better post title for the topic would have been, how do you disover the truth, logic or reason? - assuming of course that an objective truth exists.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26949755 - 09/22/20 04:56 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
so frequently, it seems, a position is taken, before evidence is even gathered or examined, or reason is engaged with.

may be a better post title for the topic would have been, how do you disover the truth, logic or reason? - assuming of course that an objective truth exists.




exactly if the topic interests you must question your own assumptions
and your main assumption is that the human mind can contain a single truth that will give you certainty

this is contradicted within quantum theory itself
this is contradicted by trying to harmonize quantum theory with general relativity theory
this is contradicted by working on the self with psychology, while also understanding the ordinary conception of self is flawed

The desire for certainty is what all religions (except Taoism & Buddhism) use to hook people.
Jihadists die a happy death, blowing themselves up and killing others, because they are CERTAIN as regards all sorts of nonsense.

In everyday life we do some reality testing constantly and unconsciously.
Sometimes when we go up stairs, while thinking of something else, we take an extra step, and almost lose balance for a moment. The brain was predicting an extra step, and these constant hidden almost instant predictions, just got revealed.

If we are having some creative fun in our lives that's about as good as it gets.

Certainty is a mirage, and a booby prize.
Same goes for a lot of belief.

Funny...maybe the question should not be:
"What don't you understand about NO?"
But:
"What don't you understand about FUN?"


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26950269 - 09/22/20 10:48 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
i thought this needed it's own thread - not attached to any specific idea.

there's the contradictory and nonsensical logically impossible and imaginary, and then the logically possible that's "far out" and not something that's ordinarily encountered, that most can't bring themselves to believe could ever happen, yet it is logically possible, even if it is imaginary.





Well one could make the question more manageable by asking: "Are some of the things I think I know possibly false?", or even: "Do I act as if certain things are true that I really know are not true?" and: "Are some of the things I doubt as being true, possibly true?"

So yes we act as though objects are solid, but we know they are not. We depend upon our senses, but they are all very limited, and very approximate and stitched together in the brain to project an outward perception that we take for 'reality', but which both being a combination and only an interpretation, must actually be a distortion. (the 2nd question)

Some conspiracy theories like the 'hollow earth' and the 'flat earth' theories are both stupid and crazy, but to think all conspiracy theories are crazy is to ignore what we know about big tobacco, and many other abuses, by big corporations that result in the deaths of thousands, and suffering of many more. (the 3rd question).

If we look at the history of medicine and science it is highly likely, that some of our beliefs are false. As more than 50% of folks think they are better than average drivers, we again realize the 1st question has been answered.

So as regards this example how much do you think is possible or right?



and does this alter anyones views?
Public Schools, the Fixation of Belief, and Social Control


Edited by laughingdog (09/22/20 11:35 PM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26950488 - 09/23/20 04:55 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

By having thoughts I rationalize my opinions about things that are possible or impossible. Basically I have a chat with myself. That's why everyone has different opinions, I suspect they all do something similar


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26950855 - 09/23/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

"There's two kinds of people. Those who have had a bad interaction with cops and those who haven't got their turn"

there are a few more
for example

those who pay off the cops
and
and those who use the cops to do their dirty work

at least that seems to be what movies teach us

then there are the cops' families etc.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26950860 - 09/23/20 10:42 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Cool well send me a PM about my signature next time rather than making an off topic post


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26950874 - 09/23/20 10:52 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

mmm...


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26950890 - 09/23/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Is ACAB real or imaginary?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: Rahz]
    #26950929 - 09/23/20 11:37 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

had to look it up

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ACAB&t=h_&ia=web

as it seems to be a generalization
I would counter generalize that it is not always true

However I prefer not to spend my time with cops ... or mafia, or government types

generally (seems to me) folks more into creativity than control are pleasanter, in fact there is probably a direct correlation.
Unfortunately sometimes very authoritative people necessary.
But for hanging out, I would choose creative types.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: laughingdog] * 2
    #26951280 - 09/23/20 03:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

in The Center of the Cyclone John C. Lily talks about meta-beliefs.  the idea that there are no real limits, is an example of a meta-belief - the idea that we can transcend what we think is possible by examining and transcening our beliefs.

in this sense, related to the mind and reality,  perceiving of doing something could be equivalent to actually doing it.  our capacity for insight without reason or observations - our intuitions - are as much of a component of thinking as logic.  knowing without knowing.


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