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OfflineSeussA
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Give up your rights, it is America afterall!
    #2695057 - 05/18/04 05:32 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

The following is from the leader of the free world...

Quote:


"The sacred institution of marriage should not be redefined by a few activist judges. All Americans have a right to be heard in this debate," the president said in a written statement.

"I called on the Congress to pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of a man and a woman as husband and wife. The need for that amendment is still urgent, and I repeat that call today."





> The sacred institution of marriage should not be redefined by a few activist judges.

Why is marriage sacred? If it is sacred, then religion must play into it, and the government should stay out of the arguement, no?

> I called on the Congress to pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution ... The need for that amendment is still urgent, and I repeat that call today.

With all that is happening in the world, all the problems we have with terrorism, don't you think we could be wasting our time on something more important like pay raises for congress?

I thought we already decided that 'seperate but equal' is a form of descrimination. Marriage, civil union... the same thing, but with different names... seperate but equal.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Seuss]
    #2695339 - 05/18/04 09:05 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

please don't confuse bush with his double standards.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Seuss]
    #2695468 - 05/18/04 10:09 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Cultural conservative are being encouraged to get worked up about this in the hopes they will ignore Bush's transgressions in other areas.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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OfflineGernBlanston
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Seuss]
    #2695485 - 05/18/04 10:18 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

I am convinced that most republicans, and specifically (*) and his Neocon brethren, are quite immune to irony. To whit:

Quote:


The sacred institution of marriage should not be redefined by a few activist judges.





Just 3 days after El Shrubbo made this comment, a state supreme court judge in North Dakota issued a statewide order to stop all abortions in the state, despite it being quite illegal to do so - an order that remained in place for about a week.

This was, of course, the work of one "activist judge" - but of course, since it falls in line with the (*) party line, noone from the White House bothered to acnowledge that part.


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There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.
  --  Howard Zinn

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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Seuss]
    #2696791 - 05/18/04 02:56 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Translation:

Hey religious right, I'm talking to you.. If you don't vote for me you hate god!


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If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.

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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Seuss]
    #2696955 - 05/18/04 03:18 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The sacred institution of marriage should not be redefined by a few activist judges.




Yes, marriage is for Britney Spears, Liz Taylor and people who want to marry a millionare.

Quote:

I called on the Congress to pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution ... The need for that amendment is still urgent, and I repeat that call today.




Because gay marriage will be the downfall of society and is a slippery slope that leads to people marrying dogs. Just like when women got the vote.





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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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InvisibleAhronZombi
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Registered: 04/06/04
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Learyfan]
    #2699672 - 05/19/04 01:18 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

yeah giving women the vote was a slipery slope, now its just leading us to hamster voteing

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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: AhronZombi]
    #2699688 - 05/19/04 01:27 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Whoa whoa WHOA. Did you guys really just say that?? I'm disappointed.

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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: adrug]
    #2701297 - 05/19/04 12:40 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

adrug said:
Whoa whoa WHOA. Did you guys really just say that?? I?m disappointed.




Sarcasm adrug. Sarcasm.

Obviously women getting the vote did not lead to animal voting. Just like gay marriage will not lead to interspecies marriage.





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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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Offlined33p
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Learyfan]
    #2702040 - 05/19/04 03:30 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Gay marriage will however lead to gays believing they should have the same rights with adoption.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2702050 - 05/19/04 03:33 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Gay marriage will however lead to gays believing they should have the same rights with adoption.



As they should.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlined33p
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: silversoul7]
    #2702069 - 05/19/04 03:37 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Im just wondering ss7, do you believe you can be born gay?


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Invisibleadrug

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Learyfan]
    #2702100 - 05/19/04 03:48 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

*whew* my sarcasm meter is waaay off lately. :smirk:

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2702111 - 05/19/04 03:51 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Im just wondering ss7, do you believe you can be born gay?



I'm pretty sure you can. I know it's not just the parental influence, cuz I had a gay friend in High School whose parents were radical right-wingers.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlined33p
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: silversoul7]
    #2702127 - 05/19/04 03:56 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Well i dont buy it. Although if they ever do find a "gay gene" which i very highly doubt when they decompile the human genome i will support that gays have every equal right as straights.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2702148 - 05/19/04 03:59 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Why does it matter? What's the harm in two men or two women getting married, or even raising a child?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlined33p
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: silversoul7]
    #2702185 - 05/19/04 04:08 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Kids are brutal. If anyone ever found out another kid had parents he would be torn to shreds.

Being gay is fine if thats your choice of how to live your life. What i dont think we should be teaching kids however is that it is normal or great to be gay. Homosexuality is a disfunction and not something that should be admired or even supported.

I have a bunch of gay friends probably much more than most since i live in miami. I'm good friends with them but still i dont think they should be raising kids anymore than someone whose sexual partner is a golden retriever.

And on a side note ENOUGH WITH THE FUCKING PARADES. You're gay and pround, woop dee doo, keep it to yourself.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2702213 - 05/19/04 04:18 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Kids are brutal. If anyone ever found out another kid had parents he would be torn to shreds.



Kids will make fun of each other for anything. They'll survive, though. Besides, it builds character.

Quote:

Being gay is fine if thats your choice of how to live your life. What i dont think we should be teaching kids however is that it is normal or great to be gay. Homosexuality is a disfunction and not something that should be admired or even supported.



If it was a disfunction, that would imply that they couldn't function right. Considering that gays can do anything a straight person can do, I don't think it could properly be called a disfunction. Maybe an abnormality, like being left-handed, but not a disfunction. And no, it's not "normal" in the sense that it's uncommon, but there's nothing wrong with that. It shouldn't be supported or admired, but shouldn't be discouraged or looked down upon either. It should just be seen as something different, not bad or good.

Quote:

I have a bunch of gay friends probably much more than most since i live in miami. I'm good friends with them but still i dont think they should be raising kids anymore than someone whose sexual partner is a golden retriever.



Well, you're entitled to your opinion. However, I think a lot of gays would be better parents than certain straight parents.

Quote:

And on a side note ENOUGH WITH THE FUCKING PARADES. You're gay and pround, woop dee doo, keep it to yourself.



I'm not a big fan of the parades either, but if you don't like 'em, you don't have to watch. Besides, most of these parades happen in places with a high gay population anyway.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlined33p
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: silversoul7]
    #2702261 - 05/19/04 04:33 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Kids will make fun of each other for anything. They'll survive, though. Besides, it builds character.




Its an necessary thing to put a kid through. And if the parent tries to advocate homosexuality to their child i would find that very bad.

Quote:

If it was a disfunction, that would imply that they couldn't function right. Considering that gays can do anything a straight person can do, I don't think it could properly be called a disfunction. Maybe an abnormality, like being left-handed, but not a disfunction. And no, it's not "normal" in the sense that it's uncommon, but there's nothing wrong with that. It shouldn't be supported or admired, but shouldn't be discouraged or looked down upon either. It should just be seen as something different, not bad or good.




Dont make me define disfunction here, you're smarter than that. Never mind i will. One definition of disfunction is abnormal functioning. Why are you generalizing. Of course they can function as humans im saying that homosexuality is a disfunction. An obvious thing they can't to do is produce offspring with reach.

Quote:

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. However, I think a lot of gays would be better parents than certain straight parents.




A lot and then certain just doesn't cut the mustard with me.

Quote:


I'm not a big fan of the parades either, but if you don't like 'em, you don't have to watch. Besides, most of these parades happen in places with a high gay population anyway.




Its hard to avoid them when they takeover a large part of downtown. And i already said i live in miami. You need to be careful out here. If a girl says she is unable to naturally lubricate herself..... run.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2702274 - 05/19/04 04:37 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Kids will make fun of each other for anything.  They'll survive, though.  Besides, it builds character.




Its an necessary thing to put a kid through. And if the parent tries to advocate homosexuality to their child i would find that very bad.



I don't think it would be any worse than advocating heterosexuality.  People should be free to be themselves.

Quote:

Quote:

If it was a disfunction, that would imply that they couldn't function right.  Considering that gays can do anything a straight person can do, I don't think it could properly be called a disfunction.  Maybe an abnormality, like being left-handed, but not a disfunction.  And no, it's not "normal" in the sense that it's uncommon, but there's nothing wrong with that.  It shouldn't be supported or admired, but shouldn't be discouraged or looked down upon either.  It should just be seen as something different, not bad or good.




Dont make me define disfunction here, you're smarter than that. Never mind i will. One definition of disfunction is abnormal functioning. Why are you generalizing. Of course they can function as humans im saying that homosexuality is a disfunction. An obvious thing they can't to do is produce offspring with reach.



They can if they really try.  I've heard of many lesbians who have sex with a guy in order to get pregnant.

Quote:

Quote:


I'm not a big fan of the parades either, but if you don't like 'em, you don't have to watch.  Besides, most of these parades happen in places with a high gay population anyway.




Its hard to avoid them when they takeover a large part of downtown. And i already said i live in miami. You need to be careful out here. If a girl says she is unable to naturally lubricate herself..... run.



:lol:


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlined33p
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: silversoul7]
    #2702284 - 05/19/04 04:42 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I don't think it would be any worse than advocating heterosexuality.  People should be free to be themselves.




And they should as we can see even though some are raised straight they choose to be gay. What im worried about are being raised to be gays.

Quote:

They can if they really try.  I've heard of many lesbians who have sex with a guy in order to get pregnant.




It put eachother and in spelling check i hit reach instead of each other by mistake captain obvious :P.

Quote:


:lol:




Im serious, heck remember that advice forever you can run into one too.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2702304 - 05/19/04 04:49 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I don't think it would be any worse than advocating heterosexuality. People should be free to be themselves.




And they should as we can see even though some are raised straight they choose to be gay. What im worried about are being raised to be gays.



I think most gays have experienced enough prejudice that they wouldn't want their kids to experience it, too, so I kinda doubt many would actually raise their kids to be gay. If they did, however, I don't see why it'd be that bad. I think to consider it to be a bad thing to be raised gay instead of straight would require you to believe that there's something wrong with being being gay.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlined33p
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: silversoul7]
    #2702332 - 05/19/04 04:58 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

I wouldnt say i think being gay is "wrong," although i certainly dont think it is "right." I don't care that people are gay since it is their decision but i do not want gay parents influencing their children to be gay. Its that whole behind closed doors without hurting anyone who cares. Well once they adopt it them behind closed doors plus a baby.

Homosexuality is a disfunction just as much as beastiality is.

And about that gay people specially wouldn't raise their kids gay so they wouldn't receive prejudice, havent you seen some of this gay pride stuff going on. Maybe its only bad in miami but damn sometimes i think heterosexuality is abnomral.


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Anonymous

Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2702386 - 05/19/04 05:13 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

gays can adopt children now.

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Offlined33p
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: ]
    #2702651 - 05/19/04 06:42 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit ruled on Jan. 29 that Florida has the right to exclude both single and partnered gay men and women from its pool of potential adoptive parents. The ACLU has asked the court to review its ruling.

I was speaking for my state. Unless this has been overturned recently although i think so.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2702658 - 05/19/04 06:45 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

chew on this:
almost all homosexuals were raised by HETEROSEXUALS
HMMM
...

disorders are so neat to classify, once you get rid of them all, everyone's the same

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Offlined33p
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: vampirism]
    #2702663 - 05/19/04 06:47 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Your point being?


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2702675 - 05/19/04 06:55 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

my point being that your assertion "I don't care that people are gay since it is their decision but i do not want gay parents influencing their children to be gay." is completely unsupportable

"influencing" -- heterosexual parents do the same by virtue of being heterosexual

furthermore "I don't care"
it shouldn't be your decision
fine, don't be gay, no one is FORCING you to - forcing is a strong word

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Offlined33p
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: vampirism]
    #2702795 - 05/19/04 07:26 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

A 15 year old can make a responsible decision in the way he will live his life if he begins living with homosexual gaurdians.

A child from birth can not however.

"influencing" -- heterosexual parents do the same by virtue of being heterosexual

If you become gay to spite your parents you have much much bigger problems than who you are fucking.

And by the looks of your last "paragraph" i think you are misinterpreting what im saying.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2702853 - 05/19/04 07:43 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

What makes you think gays choose to be gay?

Did you have to choose not to be gay? How did you go about making this decision?

Is there some kind of anti-gayness pill that you take?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2702860 - 05/19/04 07:46 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
What makes you think gays choose to be gay?

Did you have to choose not to be gay? How did you go about making this decision?

Is there some kind of anti-gayness pill that you take?



:thumbup:

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Offlined33p
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2702945 - 05/19/04 08:06 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
What makes you think gays choose to be gay?

Did you have to choose not to be gay? How did you go about making this decision?

Is there some kind of anti-gayness pill that you take?




I believe in environmental behaviorism. You are a direct and complete product of your environment. Your sub-conscious mind makes these choices and determines how you act, what you like etc based on your experiences.

I believe you are still responsible for these choices. Although like i said, if they find a gay gene then i will believe in complete and equal rights to the very end. So esscially i do believe that they dont wake up and say i wanna like dick but they are still essencially responsible for. And the environment they provide for a child is not healthiest.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2702988 - 05/19/04 08:14 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Not everything biological is genetic.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2702999 - 05/19/04 08:16 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

"healthiest"

who decides this health? It is only unhealthy if you classify homosexuality as a disorder, which removes it being a choice definitively

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: vampirism]
    #2703096 - 05/19/04 08:36 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

:thumbup:

True, homosexuality is only a disorder if you view it as negative. It's all in perception, and because we have close minded conservatives in office, they try to paint it out to be as such

Gay people should have the same rights as everyone else. It seems our leaders haven't learned from the past. There was a similar uprising against interracial marriage, and yet what has come of that? Not much.

When gay marriage is outlawed, only outlaws will receive gay marriage

And, just as everyone who wants to adopt a child, gays should have to take a mental competency test and have an inspection of their house to make sure it's safe to raise a child in (I don't know what they actually do, I've never adopted, but these should be the minimums to anyone who wants to adopt a child)


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Seuss]
    #2703257 - 05/19/04 09:07 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

I completely disagree with the President on this issue. I got no problem with gays getting married. I have not seen one good reason to not allow them to.

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2706966 - 05/20/04 04:24 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Not everything biological is genetic.




Wow, really? Any choice or disorder which develops after birth rests soley on the shoulders of those who has it. Life sucks and after birth you have to take responsibility for yourself.

Gay parents can do nothing but increase the possiblity of the children turning out gay.

Also im just wondering but quite a few gay men actually speak funny or with a lisp. Does this mean that since the child will learn how to speak from their parents that even though they are not gay they may sound gay?


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2706983 - 05/20/04 04:26 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

"Gay parents can do nothing but increase the possiblity of the children turning out gay."
there is neither evidence nor "proof" towards this ends

more tolerant to gays? yes

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: vampirism]
    #2706986 - 05/20/04 04:26 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Morrowind said:
"healthiest"

who decides this health? It is only unhealthy if you classify homosexuality as a disorder, which removes it being a choice definitively




Child services? So everything unhealthy is a disorder? Wow i've never heard of bigmac-aphrenia. Look at some of my other posts for clarifications on "choice."


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: vampirism]
    #2707012 - 05/20/04 04:29 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Morrowind said:
"Gay parents can do nothing but increase the possiblity of the children turning out gay."
there is neither evidence nor "proof" towards this ends

more tolerant to gays? yes




More tolerant boarders on support or telling them it is a fine and dandy life choice. Homosexuality should not be encouraged in children in the least.


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2707335 - 05/20/04 05:05 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)



You might want to read some studies about the subject before you go spewing terms like "disfunction" and "raised to be gay." There is a significant body of evidence in scientific journals, that shows being gay is biological responce with a strong genetic component, and there are even theories on how it is beneficial in an evolutionary sense. (Check out articles written in science or nature) Of course nothing is purely genetic and their are most certainly environmental factors at play, however, is having gay parents more likely to make children gay the research says no.
Here is an abstract from the Scandinavian journal of psycology, I think it is pretty self explanatory.


Twenty?three empirical studies published between 1978 and 2000 on nonclinical children raised by lesbian mothers or gay fathers were reviewed (one Belgian/Dutch, one Danish, three British, and 18 North American). Twenty reported on offspring of lesbian mothers, and three on offspring of gay fathers. The studies encompassed a total of 615 offspring (age range 1.5?44 years) of lesbian mothers or gay fathers and 387 controls, who were assessed by psychological tests, questionnaires or interviews. Seven types of outcomes were found to be typical: emotional functioning, sexual preference, stigmatization, gender role behavior, behavioral adjustment, gender identity, and cognitive functioning. Children raised by lesbian mothers or gay fathers did not systematically differ from other children on any of the outcomes. The studies indicate that children raised by lesbian women do not experience adverse outcomes compared with other children.

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: DeepDish2]
    #2707377 - 05/20/04 05:10 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Well to be honest i have a much higher regaurd for people from other countries than American.

But i don't know. On this subject i admit i look the other way on facts. Hell there is probably nothing wrong with gays rasing children but to me it just seems wrong. No matter what i will always feel this way. Blehh...


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2707541 - 05/20/04 05:33 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

No, no, no. That's ignorant. You're ignorant.

People are born with abnormalities that are not genetic.

Also, most "genetic" traits aren't caused by A gene, but by a particular combination of genes.

The genetics of gayness works like this : All humans have the genes nessisary to become gay.

sexual orientation is a combination of psychology, and biochemistry. you yourself were a female fetus at one point. some time in the late second, or early third trimester, the genes that encode for testosterone activated, and caused your vagina go grow shut, and your ovaries to drop. Hermaphrodites happen when the genes of people that are genetically male don't fully express, or sometimes don't express at all.

THese people have "the male gene" but some of them are women, and some of them are somewhere inbetween.

Genes are not absolute laws, they are at best rough guides on how to construct an organism.

The question is not whether someone is genetically gay, but whether they are biologically gay, which gets into such complicated issues as proteomics.

People don't chose to be gay any more than you chose to be straight, or male, or black, or white. Nobody chooses what they are, only what theydo.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2707564 - 05/20/04 05:37 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
No, no, no. That's ignorant. You're ignorant.

People are born with abnormalities that are not genetic.

Also, most "genetic" traits aren't caused by A gene, but by a particular combination of genes.

The genetics of gayness works like this : All humans have the genes nessisary to become gay.

sexual orientation is a combination of psychology, and biochemistry. you yourself were a female fetus at one point. some time in the late second, or early third trimester, the genes that encode for testosterone activated, and caused your vagina go grow shut, and your ovaries to drop. Hermaphrodites happen when the genes of people that are genetically male don't fully express, or sometimes don't express at all.

THese people have "the male gene" but some of them are women, and some of them are somewhere inbetween.

Genes are not absolute laws, they are at best rough guides on how to construct an organism.




The idea is that by establishing an unreachable goal i cant be wrong. Get it?

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
The question is not whether someone is genetically gay, but whether they are biologically gay, which gets into such complicated issues as proteomics.

People don't chose to be gay any more than you chose to be straight, or male, or black, or white. Nobody chooses what they are, only what theydo.




I think your last paragraph is a bad use of semantics. It could be said in much better terms. People are murderers and they choose to murder. Is being a murderer not on them?


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2707609 - 05/20/04 05:46 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Quote:

Morrowind said:
"Gay parents can do nothing but increase the possiblity of the children turning out gay."
there is neither evidence nor "proof" towards this ends

more tolerant to gays? yes




More tolerant boarders on support or telling them it is a fine and dandy life choice. Homosexuality should not be encouraged in children in the least.



Why not? With the world population being what it is, we could use a little less reproduction.


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: silversoul7]
    #2707620 - 05/20/04 05:48 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

There are better ways to go about reducing population such as sterilization.


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2707634 - 05/20/04 05:51 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

What does murder have to do with homosexuality?


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2707643 - 05/20/04 05:52 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

ok lets get to the crux of your belief: why is homosexuality bad ?

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2707718 - 05/20/04 06:04 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

i was talking semantics not about homosexuality.


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: vampirism]
    #2707731 - 05/20/04 06:07 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Its a sexual dysfunction which i believe is morally not right. I'm fine with adults choosing or being gay though. I just dont think homosexuality and children mix.


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2707799 - 05/20/04 06:17 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

"I'm fine with adults choosing or being gay though"

you repeat choice

this is NOT choice - homosexual parents can only help reduce the number of closeted gays, as opposed to rigid heterosexual parents.

Also, how can a sexual dysfunction be moral or not? Is red hair ( red hair is related to a particular disorder ) morally wrong? Besides, Is normal sex somehow moral? Sexual release is sexual release. No one is hurt by this - so almost no moral philosophy supports something like this, what are you following? Or are you creating your own morality which just happens to throw in "homosexuals are bad" ?

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: vampirism]
    #2707812 - 05/20/04 06:19 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

And some people CHOOSE to be gay.

Well what do you think about beastiality or more of the freakish sexual dysfunctions.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2707835 - 05/20/04 06:25 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

What could possibly be immoral about, say, Alex123 and Crobih having loving, consensual anal sex, without disturbing any neighbors with their screams of ecstacy, or broadcasting their love in a public place for all to see. It's none of your business, it's not hurtful to anyone, and there is actually no real moral issue involved, unless you consider the bible the only arbiter of morality and I, for one, have read far too much of it to buy any of it.

The government has no business being involved in marriage at all. It is a private contract between 2 (or more) adult people. The government has no business encouraging it or discouraging it, in whatever form people should choose to invent it. That includes not perverting the tax code. There should be no civil or criminal law that applies to marriage in any way different from any other contract.


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2707840 - 05/20/04 06:27 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Animals and children can't consent


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2707843 - 05/20/04 06:27 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What could possibly be immoral about, say, Alex123 and Crobih having loving, consensual anal sex, without disturbing any neighbors with their screams of ecstacy, or broadcasting their love in a public place for all to see. It's none of your business, it's not hurtful to anyone, and there is actually no real moral issue involved, unless you consider the bible the only arbiter of morality and I, for one, have read far too much of it to buy any of it.




Its my opinion that is is immortal and im fine with them doing but i dont really want a kid in the next room.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The government has no business being involved in marriage at all. It is a private contract between 2 (or more) adult people. The government has no business encouraging it or discouraging it, in whatever form people should choose to invent it. That includes not perverting the tax code. There should be no civil or criminal law that applies to marriage in any way different from any other contract.




If you think that is what marrige is then why do you need a license. Isn't love enough? What the fuck is a piece of paper and state offical finalizing it.


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2707847 - 05/20/04 06:28 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Nobody chooses to be attracted to other people of the same gender.

People don't choose what or whom they are attracted to.

Only what or whom they have sex with.


--------------------
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“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2707874 - 05/20/04 06:36 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Your exactly right, why should you require a government sanction? However, there are almost uncountable ways in which the government grants favor to legally married persons. The issues of inheritance(implied in a marriage license) hospital visitation rights (ditto) Social Security and medicare (more) health benefits (why do companies pay for hetero spouses and children benefits? This also screws single people. Now I think the companies may have an interest in prefering people in stable families but the government has no business not taxing these benefits as income when some receive far more benefit than others). The gays can make a much longer list than I but this is a good start


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2707901 - 05/20/04 06:43 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Well i believe gay couples should receive all of those benefits shared by married people and i always have. Just don't called it marriage because that is between a man and woman. Call it a civil union or something.

How about a super-fabulous couple.


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2707910 - 05/20/04 06:45 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Nobody chooses to be attracted to other people of the same gender.

People don't choose what or whom they are attracted to.

Only what or whom they have sex with.




What i have been saying is that although your conscious mind is not making those decision you are still responsible for them.

Edit: baby respond in vietnam thread


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Edited by d33p (05/20/04 06:45 PM)

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: d33p]
    #2707952 - 05/20/04 07:00 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

I got a better idea. Let's eliminate "marriage" as a governmental concept at all


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Seuss]
    #2708390 - 05/20/04 09:11 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

thought we already decided that 'seperate but equal' is a form of descrimination. Marriage, civil union... the same thing, but with different names... seperate but equal.




very true. I hadnt thought about the whole seperate but equal, great example.


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2708413 - 05/20/04 09:15 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

While I support gay marriage the discrimination angle is bullshit in my opinion. Gay people can get married right now like everyone else to a member of the opposite sex.

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: shakta]
    #2708426 - 05/20/04 09:18 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Way to miss a point.


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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2708434 - 05/20/04 09:21 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Again suck it. I didn't miss the point. I was giving my opinion on it. I don't believe the discrimination aspect is valid. I think that the government telling us who we can marry is retarded. That is all.

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: shakta]
    #2708443 - 05/20/04 09:23 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

You don't see how recognising one relationship and not another is discrimination?

You're the one who needs to suck it.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2708456 - 05/20/04 09:26 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

You got boobs? If so we can talk. :tongue:

Is it disriminatory to allow one and not the other? Yes it is. My point is that all people have the same right to marry a member of the opposite sex. The group in question has the exact same rights as everyone else. See the distinction? I again am not saying it is correct, I just think comparing it to the Civil Rights movemet is a weak argument.

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: shakta]
    #2712949 - 05/21/04 08:59 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Is it disriminatory to allow one and not the other? Yes it is. My point is that all people have the same right to marry a member of the opposite sex. The group in question has the exact same rights as everyone else. See the distinction? I again am not saying it is correct, I just think comparing it to the Civil Rights movemet is a weak argument.




More than weak..
I think this is like that old standard: If you start drawing comparisions to Nazi Germany and there's not actually any Jews on trains, you lose the argument.

"Seperate but equal" is referring to FACILITIES. Things you can grab and touch and walk into. SbE means that you can't have to schools, one black and one white, and consider them equal, but not let kids from one go to the other. Or you couldn't have bathrooms only for one race.

Blah blah sure I guess they should have the same rights as a married couple. that makes sense. I seriously hope none of them expect the government to force churchs to marry them. that's at the church's discretion, any gay dude who tries to get the gov't to force a church to marry homosexuals.. should be beaten ;p thats retarded, you don't get the government to force changes on religions.

Got no problem with homosexuals myself. Work around a lot of them actually.. no problem. as individuals. but as a group? well, I can't stand them, but I think that's because the ones that get on TV are like, basically, everyone else in a situation like that.. they always find the craziest, most idiotic and annoying person to tape. You know, the guy in front with the metallic purple Daisy Dukes and the tiny midget taped to his buttocks. that's annoying. that needs to stop. but honestly there's a lot of things I think need to stop, I just find a lot of things really, really stupid.

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #2712978 - 05/21/04 09:10 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

?

eh

no one is forcing a religion to change, and separate but equal refers to education not schools, it is a policy of attitude. Separate but equal works for public transportation, and all sorts of neat things -- it was a precedent meant to be followed. As it does not refer to the creation of two different facilities but rather a conceptual division, it applies well to this case.

Point : Marriage for heterosexuals, and Civil Unions for homosexuals. Neither includes religion

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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: vampirism]
    #2713014 - 05/21/04 09:34 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Civil unions for homosexuals, and civil unions for heterosexuals. Religions can call it marriage if they want to. "Civil Union" should just be the name of the type of business contract involved.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2713017 - 05/21/04 09:35 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

yes, i was just saying how it is now :tongue:

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OfflineTao
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: vampirism]
    #2713109 - 05/21/04 10:13 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

why is the government even involved with marriage? why should we give benefits to two people living together instead of apart? Ive never really understood that, anyone care to explain?

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Tao]
    #2713159 - 05/21/04 10:24 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TaoTeChing said:
why is the government even involved with marriage? why should we give benefits to two people living together instead of apart? Ive never really understood that, anyone care to explain?



These "benefits" include things like hospital visitation rights, inheritance rights, etc., which I think is reasonable for married couples. In terms of taxation, however, people are actually penalized for being married.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2713186 - 05/21/04 10:29 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

What could possibly be immoral about, say, Alex123 and Crobih having loving, consensual anal sex, without disturbing any neighbors with their screams of ecstacy, or broadcasting their love in a public place for all to see. It's none of your business, it's not hurtful to anyone, and there is actually no real moral issue involved, unless you consider the bible the only arbiter of morality and I, for one, have read far too much of it to buy any of it.

The government has no business being involved in marriage at all. It is a private contract between 2 (or more) adult people. The government has no business encouraging it or discouraging it, in whatever form people should choose to invent it. That includes not perverting the tax code. There should be no civil or criminal law that applies to marriage in any way different from any other contract.


Here Here  :thumbup:


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.

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OfflineTao
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: silversoul7]
    #2713233 - 05/21/04 10:42 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
These "benefits" include things like hospital visitation rights, inheritance rights, etc., which I think is reasonable for married couples. In terms of taxation, however, people are actually penalized for being married.




hospital visitations rights: fill out a form at the hospital.
Inheritance rights: If you dont make a will, it goes to the state.
What else is there?

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Tao]
    #2713507 - 05/21/04 11:58 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Well, for one thing, a marriage license means your partner can't legally throw you out of the house. There's other stuff, but I'm not sure exactly what there is. I'll have to get back to you on that.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineTao
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: silversoul7]
    #2713518 - 05/22/04 12:01 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

I'd be interested to know exactly what all this government stuff with marriage is. i always hear it reffered to on the news, but never in detail. i should probably know, im gettin married next year.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Tao]
    #2713628 - 05/22/04 12:25 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Here are a few of the 1,049 benefits the United States government provides to couples in a heterosexual marriage:


Access to Military Stores
Assumption of Spouse?s Pension
Bereavement Leave
Immigration
Insurance Breaks
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Social Security Survivor Benefits
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Tax Breaks
Veteran?s Discounts
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison

Here are a few of the state level benefits within the United States:


Assumption of Spouse?s Pension
Automatic Inheritance
Automatic Housing Lease Transfer
Bereavement Leave
Burial Determination
Child Custody
Crime Victim?s Recovery Benefits
Divorce Protections
Domestic Violence Protection
Exemption from Property Tax on Partner?s Death
Immunity from Testifying Against Spouse
Insurance Breaks
Joint Adoption and Foster Care
Joint Bankruptcy
Joint Parenting (Insurance Coverage, School Records)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Certain Property Rights
Reduced Rate Memberships
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Visitation of Partner?s Children
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison
Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Seuss]
    #2714927 - 05/22/04 02:37 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:

> The sacred institution of marriage should not be redefined by a few activist judges.

Why is marriage sacred? If it is sacred, then religion must play into it, and the government should stay out of the arguement, no?




Dictionary.com has 6 definitions for sacred, not all mention religion. If marriage is strictly religious, then shouldn't all privlidges related to marriage be done away with? No more joint filings, etc. Another entry from
"Idiots Interpretation of The Seperation of Church and State"
Quote:


> I called on the Congress to pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution ... The need for that amendment is still urgent, and I repeat that call today.

With all that is happening in the world, all the problems we have with terrorism, don't you think we could be wasting our time on something more important like pay raises for congress?




With the Judicial branch of the government now being allowed to make their own laws, why not just do away with Congress entirely? Checks and balances always seemed so "yesterday".
Quote:


I thought we already decided that 'seperate but equal' is a form of descrimination. Marriage, civil union... the same thing, but with different names... seperate but equal.



According to your misinterpretaiton of sep x church/state, the state should have no say in this at all. So how about if I want to marry my 5 year old cousin? No say, right?

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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Seuss]
    #2714942 - 05/22/04 02:41 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

I am wondering what "Rights" you are alluding to with this subject line. The "right" to checks and balances? The "right" to live in a nation where law is made by elected officals who are appointed to do just that, or where any judge can make law? Since when do gays have the "right" to get married? Is that like the "Right" to healthcare that Kerry made up?

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2715234 - 05/22/04 04:29 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Since when do gays have the "right" to get married?



They always have, whether or not anyone chooses to recognize it. People have a right to do as they please as long as they don't initiate force against anyone else.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: silversoul7]
    #2715329 - 05/22/04 04:56 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Since when do gays have the "right" to get married?




Since when do straight people have the "right" to get married?  :wink:


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...

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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: silversoul7]
    #2715384 - 05/22/04 05:16 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

Since when do gays have the "right" to get married?



They always have, whether or not anyone chooses to recognize it. People have a right to do as they please as long as they don't initiate force against anyone else.




Ok. I'm going to marry my 5 year old neice. I won't force ehr into it, and i'll pay a handsome dowry so that her family is happy with it. No force, no foul. Right?

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2715388 - 05/22/04 05:18 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

germin8tionn8ion said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

Since when do gays have the "right" to get married?



They always have, whether or not anyone chooses to recognize it. People have a right to do as they please as long as they don't initiate force against anyone else.




Ok. I'm going to marry my 5 year old neice. I won't force ehr into it, and i'll pay a handsome dowry so that her family is happy with it. No force, no foul. Right?



She would be too young to give informed consent. If she were able to give it, then no, there would be nothing wrong with it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2715392 - 05/22/04 05:19 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Why is the concept of "consent" so difficult? Chickens and children cannot consent.


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Offlinegermin8tionn8ion
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2715399 - 05/22/04 05:22 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Nor, actually, can the mentally ill. Since homosexuals were classified as mentally ill until the doctor that now wants peadophiles removed from the classification, I'll go with thei rmental illness is precluding them from making a rational desicion. Is fucking another man in the ass not indicitaion of mental illness?

America and the rest of the world has, until about 50 years ago, always dealt with marriage as man/woman. Why change it now?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2715400 - 05/22/04 05:23 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

On second thought, maybe you and your niece (or chicken) should be allowed to marry. You just can't fuck them.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2715418 - 05/22/04 05:27 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

germin8tionn8ion said:
Nor, actually, can the mentally ill.



"Mental illness" is a broad term that can mean all kinds of things. SOME mental illnesses prevent people from consent, but others do not.

Quote:

Since homosexuals were classified as mentally ill until the doctor that now wants peadophiles removed from the classification, I'll go with thei rmental illness is precluding them from making a rational desicion. Is fucking another man in the ass not indicitaion of mental illness?



No, it is an indication of different taste. Even if it were a mental illness, see my response above.

Quote:

America and the rest of the world has, until about 50 years ago, always dealt with marriage as man/woman. Why change it now?



Because it is the right thing to do. Slavery existed in America for a long time as well, but we ended it because it was the right thing to do.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2715426 - 05/22/04 05:28 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Nor, actually, can the mentally ill. Since homosexuals were classified as mentally ill until the doctor that now wants peadophiles removed from the classification, I'll go with thei rmental illness is precluding them from making a rational desicion. Is fucking another man in the ass not indicitaion of mental illness?

America and the rest of the world has, until about 50 years ago, always dealt with marriage as man/woman. Why change it now?




So anyone with a different seuxal preference than you is mentally ill. Wow. As to why change it now, it's because whether or not you agree with it they still have the legal right to marry and it's only bigoted religious people who have prevented it thus far. Denying a group of people the same rights the rest of the population enjoys, based solely on out-dated religious ideas is ludicrous. Is that so difficult to understand?


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2715624 - 05/22/04 06:18 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Obviously anyone who has smoked pot has permanently damaged their ability to make rational decisions, which gives the government the right to make all their decisions for them.


This also works for people who like Barbara Streisand, or eat pieces of raw potato.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2715932 - 05/22/04 07:46 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Actually, people who like Bab's should be killed.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2715943 - 05/22/04 07:47 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Slowly


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2716081 - 05/22/04 08:23 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

Very.

It's for the children.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2716984 - 05/22/04 11:19 PM (19 years, 10 months ago)

*sniff*

I liked her in On a Clear Day You Can See Forever. Other than that though, yeah she should be shot. Plus she's a total retard when it comes to politics. Thankfully Bush isn't THAT stupid or we'd just be getting around to attacking Iraq, having accidently went to war with Iran first. Though that'd be about as justifyable.


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...

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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Give up your rights, it is America afterall! [Re: unbeliever]
    #2725855 - 05/25/04 12:27 AM (19 years, 10 months ago)

OHNO ITS MECHASTREISAND

uhm. yeah.

so mental illness CAN disclude you from legally being able to make your own decisions -- such as entiring into contracts, which is basically what marriage is.. but it's not cut and dry like that.

You can't enter into contract if it can be shown that you are not mentally competent enough to understand what you're doing.

There's a lot of mental illnesses that don't turn you into a child.. most people are mentally ill in some way ;p

it's just the ones that actually cause your mental function to be hindered that prevent the right to make legally binding decisions..
which applies for straight people too. don't have sex with the severely retarded girl. you'll get in trouble, trust me, it may be easy but mentally she's 7 and couldn't spell discretion let alone understand it.

So if mental illness will prevent gays from marrying / civil unionizing? wtf?..
it'll also prevent them from doing all sorts of other things.. like, what, i dunno, driving? taking out a loan? entering into any contract? Well, at least, they couldn't without an adult of sound mind to give permission.
and seriously we dont need that many angry gay people

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