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DividedQuantum
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Consequences of the internet over the years 1
#26949666 - 09/22/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was just idly remembering some comments the late author Michael Crichton made about the internet revolution. He said two things that stick out in my memory:
One, that because of the social dynamic of internet communication, use of the web will lead to a homogenization of thought -- a lot of people will subliminally start thinking in the same ways, reducing diversity of thought significantly.
Two, the internet will go the way of television -- it will be negatively changed by money, in the sense that advertising will be everywhere and costs associated with participation will skyrocket.
I cannot remember when or where these comments of his were made, but probably in an interview around the turn of the century.
How do they strike you? Do you feel he was on the mark, or is it a matter of greater complexity? I'm quite interested to read what you guys have to say about this, out of curiosity.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Yellow Pants


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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: DividedQuantum]
#26949705 - 09/22/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh man Idk. I would say greater complexity of thought simply through a faster exchange of ideas and information. Yet not everybody uses the internet towards the same ends. Staring at cat videos will reduce neurological systems.
In summary, I'd say the potential in an omni-directional kind of way has undoubtedly increased. Yet, there's that saying that says "you are what you eat". In this saying I can't help but fear that all this experience and progress by way of the internet and in the internet simply ends in itself. If it can't be said that there are benefits in one way or another that manifest outside of the online domain through extention then my pov towards online accomplishments diminishes significantly I think.
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thealienthatategod
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: DividedQuantum] 2
#26949742 - 09/22/20 04:47 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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i have noticed, in the periods of time when i have stayed off of the internet, i have my most unique and novel thoughts. everytime we read anothers thoughts, it tweaks our own thoughts, whether we realize it or not, even more so for those who have sponge-like personalities. using the internet certainly has the power to remove the power of imagination.
it's a little shocking to me, when i see a six month old with a phone, watching a youtube video, three inches from their face. will they ever learn to use the power of their own imagination to entertain themselves?
a frightening thought, is considering the future of technology, with something like Neuralink, where the internet will be embedded into the brain, and humans will accessing data, processing information, and essentially be sharing their thoughts telepathically with the assistance of this device. it seems with something like this, it would be even more difficult to have innovative and imaginative thoughts. oh, but with Starlink, Elon Musk will make sure everyone has access to the internet, so i'm sure there will be no shoratge of it!
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laughingdog
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: DividedQuantum]
#26949772 - 09/22/20 05:07 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
How do they strike you? Do you feel he was on the mark, or is it a matter of greater complexity? I'm quite interested to read what you guys have to say about this, out of curiosity.
advertising messes up everything Tv already homogenizes many minds
He left out computer viruses, trojans, and worms.
One can learn a lot on Youtube or watch cat videos--so we do have choice
oh & i suppose someone should mention the dark web, porn, the NSA & Google data gathering, fake news, possible election tampering, streaming video & music, & email, the 'Arab Spring', some free books, and online shopping, etc.
Edited by laughingdog (09/22/20 05:10 PM)
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Rahz
Alive Again



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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: laughingdog] 2
#26949942 - 09/22/20 07:05 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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The internet makes everyone twice as worried/angry/sad as they would be otherwise. Hundreds of internet friends and people feel more isolated than ever. Additional time spent in front of a screen deteriorates health.
Crichton's predictions have partially come true, but it's more difficult to control than TV (lots more channels to choose from). The Shroomery for instance. Still, I think the internet has subjected everyone to all the ills of the world in a way that is difficult to respond to in healthy ways, making for a dose of ever present anxiety that humans don't manage well. This seems especially true of young people.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "Youβre not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." βAyishat Akanbi
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DividedQuantum
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Interesting. I guess I would have to agree that if we use the internet even to a moderate extent, it influences our thought processes in ways of which we are unaware. On the other hand, books do the same thing, but I think it's obvious that the internet has much lower average quality of information than a good book, so perhaps this illustrates Crichton's point. At least to the extent that we are altering our thought processes subtly for the worse, collectively.
And I agree that young people are fucked.
And I agree that technology is getting... less constructive?
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: Rahz]
#26949984 - 09/22/20 07:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: The internet makes everyone twice as worried/angry/sad as they would be otherwise. Hundreds of internet friends and people feel more isolated than ever. Additional time spent in front of a screen deteriorates health.
Crichton's predictions have partially come true, but it's more difficult to control than TV (lots more channels to choose from). The Shroomery for instance. Still, I think the internet has subjected everyone to all the ills of the world in a way that is difficult to respond to in healthy ways, making for a dose of ever present anxiety that humans don't manage well. This seems especially true of young people.
Very interesting, spot-on point. Anxiety, from what I can tell, is at unprecedented levels, and this is due to the fact that there is very little not to be anxious about and we're bombarded with information about it constantly. Indeed, people are lonelier than ever. And as I said in the above post, I'm fairly sure anyone born after about 2010 is just totally fucked.
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: laughingdog]
#26949991 - 09/22/20 07:42 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
How do they strike you? Do you feel he was on the mark, or is it a matter of greater complexity? I'm quite interested to read what you guys have to say about this, out of curiosity.
advertising messes up everything Tv already homogenizes many minds
He left out computer viruses, trojans, and worms.
One can learn a lot on Youtube or watch cat videos--so we do have choice
oh & i suppose someone should mention the dark web, porn, the NSA & Google data gathering, fake news, possible election tampering, streaming video & music, & email, the 'Arab Spring', some free books, and online shopping, etc.
Good illustration of the complexity. Along with a lot of bad, there is indeed a lot of good, and still some choice. It will be interesting to see where the internet is ten years from now. Business and government are always trying to get their mitts on more and more control, and I imagine eventually they probably will. I can definitely say that in the 2000s, the internet was a virgin Shangri-La compared to where it is now, although much more primitive at the same time. Can you imagine free hosting everywhere and contacting yahoo by email?
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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laughingdog
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: Rahz]
#26950056 - 09/22/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: .... Additional time spent in front of a screen deteriorates health. ....
Yes whether it is TV, a video game, or the internet all have a somewhat hypnotic and dissociative effect. This is most clearly 'seen' if one tries to talk to kids while they are in front of the screen. It take considerable effort, to 'get through' to them. And this effect is the opposite of mindfulness, or the consciousness of a martial artist, or hunter; which is cultivated by them for very good reasons.
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: Rahz]
#26953731 - 09/25/20 12:41 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
The internet makes everyone twice as worried/angry/sad as they would be otherwise. Hundreds of internet friends and people feel more isolated than ever. Additional time spent in front of a screen deteriorates health.
Which makes home schooling during lockdown more problematic. On Tuesday a longtime classmate and friend of my son committed suicide. DJ was 16 and a very social kid. School has just resumed, from home, on computer, and he became deeply lonely and depressed. It's been a sad week. I don't see anything on the news that covers this issue. Zero. Children matter most. Let's say their names.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26953878 - 09/25/20 05:17 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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so you are a Trumper? sheesh! I never knew.
Sorry about the kid, it seems as if all implied warranties have expired.
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Ferdinando


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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: redgreenvines]
#26954156 - 09/25/20 09:44 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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trump said right wingers are orderly or something like that
but the big thing is if right-wingers get enough presence and activity there won't be an earth where there can be orderly and things like this
it's like one person not sure of wether it will die and why woulnd't he take the precaution to safety up him, the earth so he can get his volvo and chocolate and hash and food and money eafterwards..
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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Rahz
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#26954185 - 09/25/20 09:57 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: Which makes home schooling during lockdown more problematic. On Tuesday a longtime classmate and friend of my son committed suicide. DJ was 16 and a very social kid. School has just resumed, from home, on computer, and he became deeply lonely and depressed. It's been a sad week. I don't see anything on the news that covers this issue. Zero. Children matter most. Let's say their names.
I'm sorry you son lost his friend. It has been mentioned but anything that might make the narrative seem problematic is given minimal time. And for every kid (or adult) that does that there are more that are suffering. My sister is a teacher and has been working more rather than less, spending time working with the kids over the internet and it's exhausting for her. Fortunately she got a few months break but now she's back at it. Next time I see her I'll ask about it.
The internet appeals to a person's sense of comfort, but when it replaces real social interaction it becomes unhealthy. Even when in the presence of others, a young person will often fidget with their phone in avoidance. Social interaction can be problematic, but whether it is or not it provides a type of drama people need to keep their nervous system active. It's been said that the only thing worse than bad drama is no drama. The road to success is paved with discomfort.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "Youβre not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." βAyishat Akanbi
Edited by Rahz (09/25/20 11:03 AM)
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: Rahz]
#26960096 - 09/29/20 10:42 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
The internet appeals to a person's sense of comfort, but when it replaces real social interaction it becomes unhealthy. Even when in the presence of others, a young person will often fidget with their phone in avoidance. Social interaction can be problematic, but whether it is or not it provides a type of drama people need to keep their nervous system active. It's been said that the only thing worse than bad drama is no drama. The road to success is paved with discomfort.
Thank you for your post. I think every urge to use a phone or computer to communicate is rooted in the need to connect. You make an interesting point - maybe we should stop thinking of it as "social anxiety" and just call it "living". One problem with labeling experience as anxiety is that we think it is abnormal and that we should try to avoid or eliminate it. Rodents are probably comfortable being anxious every moment of their lives.
I heard a speaker say once, "We call it a NERVOUS system for a reason!"
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26960134 - 09/29/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yepz
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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redgreenvines
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26960293 - 09/29/20 12:49 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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 this is how I see more serious high anxiety problems
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: redgreenvines]
#26960307 - 09/29/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Ferdinando


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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26961491 - 09/30/20 06:07 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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great
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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Ferdinando


Registered: 11/15/09
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: Ferdinando]
#26961869 - 09/30/20 11:55 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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the keep in is a big drawback of psychiatry
to the client it is a big drawback
I found it important to work while I was in there
make drawings and do meditation and yoga
and paint
I had the idea that one made them heal from nature
later I had a more extensive idea
healing from nature
meditation
yoga
art
and lots of it
why would it not give as good results
or better
how about incredibly good music
like hallelujah
incredibly good art
art that leads you somewhere better
powerful effective
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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redgreenvines
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: Ferdinando]
#26961980 - 09/30/20 12:44 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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so many ways to be afflicted, and such a variation in impacts from mental problems. I think that no single treatment works for every one.
Many cannot sit still, Many lose it as soon as the triggering fragments arise during zazen - they are not ready to pursue meditation.
maybe just breathing exercises, yoga and medication and many cannot do even that much.
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laughingdog
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26962756 - 09/30/20 08:00 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
Rahz said:
The internet appeals to a person's sense of comfort, but when it replaces real social interaction it becomes unhealthy. Even when in the presence of others, a young person will often fidget with their phone in avoidance. Social interaction can be problematic, but whether it is or not it provides a type of drama people need to keep their nervous system active. It's been said that the only thing worse than bad drama is no drama. The road to success is paved with discomfort.
Thank you for your post. I think every urge to use a phone or computer to communicate is rooted in the need to connect. You make an interesting point - maybe we should stop thinking of it as "social anxiety" and just call it "living". One problem with labeling experience as anxiety is that we think it is abnormal and that we should try to avoid or eliminate it. Rodents are probably comfortable being anxious every moment of their lives.
I heard a speaker say once, "We call it a NERVOUS system for a reason!"
. Whether it is called distraction, anxiety, living, or a need to connect - the fact remains that most often those who begin a practice of meditation discover that their minds seem to be obsessive compulsive most of the time. . Visual electronic media are just another way modern westerners use to avoid more genuine relationships, with self, nature, or others. Pre covid of course, consumerism/shopping, were also favorites. As well as the constant noise of music, & radio programs. . How to go from mental agitation and addiction to agitation, to the states of mind yogis and eastern monks enjoy, is a difficult journey everyone wishing to make the change must learn to deal with, using the tools of personal commitment and persistence, regardless of external approval, or setbacks. . Seems that's just the way it is for 99.999...% of us.
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Jokeshopbeard
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: DividedQuantum]
#26976269 - 10/08/20 10:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Was introduced to this social commentrist the other day DQ, and was reminded of your quote above: 'I'm fairly sure anyone born after about 2010 is just totally fucked'.
Quick and fun to watch, and I think it shows the degradation of the youth at work.
I wrote about it more here.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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nooneman


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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: DividedQuantum]
#26976682 - 10/09/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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The internet at this point has probably been a net negative, but not by much.
On the upside, it destroyed television, which was like one of the great evils of the world.
On the downside, it's been used by nation states to control people just like TV, but even more effectively. It's allowed evil people to organize terrible stuff and spread propaganda and indoctrinate people into awful belief systems and stuff like that. It's been used by people and nation states to cause others to commit suicide or kill. It enables bullying, shaming, and stalking on a scale never before seen by other technologies. It's a distraction from the things that really matter in life, making trivial and stupid things seem important. It has probably wasted as many or more hours of life and productivity than TV.
None of that is the technology's fault though. It's humanity's fault. The fact that we're so immature and stupid and selfish as a species to do that kind of stuff, or to fall for propaganda and indoctrination, says a lot about the primitive state of mankind as a species.
In the future, I think it'll swing back the other way eventually. The same technologies that allow people to be indoctrinated with propaganda can also be used to teach people and to make them better human beings. The technology itself is neutral, it could be used for either purpose, and I'm sure one day it will be. Right now is just growing pains, and they might last a long time, but eventually the technology will become a net positive.
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: nooneman]
#26976983 - 10/09/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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That was Crichton's main implication. That internet, which really was a lot more neutral from about 1995-2005, would become as bad as or worse than television. And all these new forms of addiction and indoctrination are bearing that out, as you point out. I very much hope the tide turns and the internet becomes a more positive tool, but a similar evolution never took place for television, so it doesn't seem likely to me that it will happen anytime soon.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Jokeshopbeard
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: nooneman]
#26977179 - 10/09/20 03:11 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: On the upside, it destroyed television, which was like one of the great evils of the world.
I've not noticed this; most people I know still have a television.
What makes you feel this is the case?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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redgreenvines
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#26977201 - 10/09/20 03:27 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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haven't had television in 2 decades. maybe in 2 decades I will have quit the internet too, or it will have quit me.
--------------------
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Ferdinando


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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: redgreenvines]
#26977874 - 10/10/20 02:21 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: haven't had television in 2 decades.
this is good
and then I mean not having a television is that or does it or both
throw out you television if you have one
it overstimulates the mind like brain suppression
it hinders 8 fold path and middle way and getting things done
-------------------- with our love with our love we could save the world
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: laughingdog] 3
#26987366 - 10/15/20 04:15 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
Visual electronic media are just another way modern westerners use to avoid more genuine relationships, with self, nature, or others.
I think we use detractions to avoid the deep sadness and void within. Human beings experience a massive social deficit (due to lack of intimate relationships) that has huge negative consequences. There is more intimacy in a 1 hour soap opera than most people get in a month. Or a year. We somehow survive on thin broth. We live on the edge of a sharp blade - easily toppled.
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Tulipslave
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Registered: 07/25/17
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26989190 - 10/16/20 09:08 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
Rahz said:
The internet appeals to a person's sense of comfort, but when it replaces real social interaction it becomes unhealthy. Even when in the presence of others, a young person will often fidget with their phone in avoidance. Social interaction can be problematic, but whether it is or not it provides a type of drama people need to keep their nervous system active. It's been said that the only thing worse than bad drama is no drama. The road to success is paved with discomfort.
Thank you for your post. I think every urge to use a phone or computer to communicate is rooted in the need to connect. You make an interesting point - maybe we should stop thinking of it as "social anxiety" and just call it "living". One problem with labeling experience as anxiety is that we think it is abnormal and that we should try to avoid or eliminate it. Rodents are probably comfortable being anxious every moment of their lives.
I heard a speaker say once, "We call it a NERVOUS system for a reason!"
Same thing when watching the young, wild bunny rabbits (not the jackrabbits.). They are ALWAYS on alert and freaking out over the slightest sound or motion. Sometimes they get mildly comfortable but it's very short lived.
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OutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: Tulipslave]
#27003978 - 10/26/20 03:27 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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The internet is turning into a corporate conglomerate. Just a few corporate companies competing for ad revenue. Everything I see online is just someone blasting their opinion of something. This makes people unable to think for themselves because their own opinions are only formed from what they have already heard. This is how the whole social justice warrior crowd was formed. A bunch of people sharing the same exact opinions.
All media seems to be opinion based for the last few years. Journalism used to be about reporting, now it's about reporting your opinion of an affair. It's only done to stray public opinion and thought.
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laughingdog
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
#27005147 - 10/26/20 06:15 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Actually there is also a lot of very high quality educational material on Youtube for instance. It is also a great resource for crafts projects. There are many science journals, and sites where one can download free books. Also websites with free lectures of all sorts. I'm sure many have favorite sites for all sorts of peculiar and particular information.
As you say, there is of course, also much garbage, and mindless social media.
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OutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: laughingdog]
#27005169 - 10/26/20 06:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said: Actually there is also a lot of very high quality educational material on Youtube for instance. It is also a great resource for crafts projects. There are many science journals, and sites where one can download free books. Also websites with free lectures of all sorts. I'm sure many have favorite sites for all sorts of peculiar and particular information.
As you say, there is of course, also much garbage, and mindless social media.
It's not just social media websites but also news websites.
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OutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
#27005742 - 10/27/20 06:00 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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teknix
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Re: Consequences of the internet over the years [Re: DividedQuantum]
#27007760 - 10/28/20 07:29 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: I was just idly remembering some comments the late author Michael Crichton made about the internet revolution. He said two things that stick out in my memory:
One, that because of the social dynamic of internet communication, use of the web will lead to a homogenization of thought -- a lot of people will subliminally start thinking in the same ways, reducing diversity of thought significantly.
Two, the internet will go the way of television -- it will be negatively changed by money, in the sense that advertising will be everywhere and costs associated with participation will skyrocket.
I cannot remember when or where these comments of his were made, but probably in an interview around the turn of the century.
How do they strike you? Do you feel he was on the mark, or is it a matter of greater complexity? I'm quite interested to read what you guys have to say about this, out of curiosity.
Manipulation of the masses by mass media while people become more susceptible to their influences through social media's conditioning, ofc people just start falling in line and submitting to their influence when they lack the capacity to think critically. Dumbing down the commoners makes them easier to control and manipulate.
I'm more worried about what Johnny boy thinks about my new hairstyle that I just put on insta than the effects the megacorps are having on the environment.
Did he like my pic? Did he like my pic? Did he like my pic? Did he like my pic?
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