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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
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So can you help Nonagon Infinity find these plans to prove Paul Craig Roberts wrong?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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birdeatingspider
Stranger in Paradise



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,070
Loc: so many roads
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Maybe after I pick my peppers
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From all I may be, or have been before, To mingle with the Universe, and feel What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
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Wikipedia has a lot of excuses why you might not find it:
"...as Germany's defeat became imminent and the Nazi leaders realized they would most likely be captured and brought to trial, great effort was made to destroy all evidence of mass extermination."
Again, even if these documents don't exist, that doesn't mean the holocaust didn't happen. It just means Paul Craig Roberts was correct in that they haven't been found.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,308
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 4 minutes
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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koods said: Lol
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birdeatingspider said:

Can either of you write a logical rebuttal, or is ridicule the best you can do?
I guess I'll have to get on board with your debating styles: "You two are big fat poo poo heads!"
Better?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 days
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I don't know if it's true or not. 
Then I take it you haven't read much of the literature surrounding WWII history.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: All you have to do now is find that "German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews" and then you'll have proven your point.
I kind of find it hard to believe that this is even a question for you, as someone who is the self-proclaimed king of calling out people on their "make-believe". The idea that the Nazis were unaware of the plan to exterminate the Jews is one of the most make-believe claims imaginable. Though, as Kryptos pointed out, Holocaust denial is becoming more and more mainstream these days (unfortunately, especially for Jews like me). Every time I engage in conversation with you, I see more and more that you're not interested in debate. You're interested in "finding the truth", which is a position that sounds good on paper, but often ends up being counterproductive to legitimate debate. When you shed doubt on the historical facts of the Holocaust, you are not simply being skeptical with the purpose of "finding the truth". You are implicitly defending an extremely dangerous political narrative that can have real world consequences, which is the idea that the Nazis were blameless. Is that really a point you want to defend?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If you can't find it, Paul Craig Roberts has proven his.
Absolutely not.
Paul Craig Roberts is making the claim that Hitler, Himmler, and other higher-up Nazis were unaware of any plan to exterminate the Jews. This is an absurd claim, and there is no evidence to support this idea whatsoever. The fact that there was no paper document describing the details of The Final Solution does not mean that we get to fill in the cracks in history with whatever narrative we like, yet that is exactly what Irving and Roberts are doing. The fact of the matter is that the Final Solution happened anyway, with or without a paper document, and it was primarily executed by the members of Hitler's Regime, in death camps controlled by the Nazis.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm interested to know which of you two is wrong on this.
That's always what it seems to come down to for you: who's right and who's wrong? I couldn't imagine a more simplistic worldview, or one that is more driven by the ego.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Regardless, it doesn't even matter to the point above.
If you don't want to discuss the matter anymore, then that's fine, but Paul Craig Roberts is a Holocaust denier. It's not a matter of opinion or interpretation. He's a Holocaust denier.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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birdeatingspider
Stranger in Paradise



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,070
Loc: so many roads
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I don't know if it's true or not. 
Then I take it you haven't read much of the literature surrounding WWII history.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: All you have to do now is find that "German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews" and then you'll have proven your point.
I kind of find it hard to believe that this is even a question for you, as someone who is the self-proclaimed king of calling out people on their "make-believe". The idea that the Nazis were unaware of the plan to exterminate the Jews is one of the most make-believe claims imaginable. Though, as Kryptos pointed out, Holocaust denial is becoming more and more mainstream these days (unfortunately, especially for Jews like me). Every time I engage in conversation with you, I see more and more that you're not interested in debate. You're interested in "finding the truth", which is a position that sounds good on paper, but often ends up being counterproductive to legitimate debate. When you shed doubt on the historical facts of the Holocaust, you are not simply being skeptical with the purpose of "finding the truth". You are implicitly defending an extremely dangerous political narrative that can have real world consequences, which is the idea that the Nazis were blameless. Is that really a point you want to defend?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If you can't find it, Paul Craig Roberts has proven his.
Absolutely not.
Paul Craig Roberts is making the claim that Hitler, Himmler, and other higher-up Nazis were unaware of any plan to exterminate the Jews. This is an absurd claim, and there is no evidence to support this idea whatsoever. The fact that there was no paper document describing the details of The Final Solution does not mean that we get to fill in the cracks in history with whatever narrative we like, yet that is exactly what Irving and Roberts are doing. The fact of the matter is that the Final Solution happened anyway, with or without a paper document, and it was primarily executed by the members of Hitler's Regime, in death camps controlled by the Nazis.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm interested to know which of you two is wrong on this.
That's always what it seems to come down to for you: who's right and who's wrong? I couldn't imagine a more simplistic worldview, or one that is more driven by the ego.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Regardless, it doesn't even matter to the point above.
If you don't want to discuss the matter anymore, then that's fine, but Paul Craig Roberts is a Holocaust denier. It's not a matter of opinion or interpretation. He's a Holocaust denier.
Some other fast facts:
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He has expressed his opposition to Affirmative Action policies and dismissed the existence of white male privilege.[33] In an opinion column for Scripps Howard News Service in 1997, Roberts opposed gender integration aboard U.S. Navy vessels, opining that gender integration would destroy the "ethos of comradeship" which, in his view, motivated wartime sacrifice more than "abstract concepts such as honor and country".
Also, it appears Paul Craig Roberts is funded by Ron Unz- A white supremacists who runs the 'The Unz Selection,' a self proclaimed 'An alternative media selection.' They strive to be antisemitic and anti-Israel.
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According to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) in 2014, the webzine is an "outlet for certain writers to attack Israel and Jews".[22] It has also been described as "an alternative conservative website",[30] and "a mix of far-right and far-left anti-Semitic crackpottery".[29]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Unz#The_Unz_Review_and_other_activities And they believe Mossad was involved with the Kennedy brothers' deaths.
5 mins, I'm done. I like the term 'crackpottery-' That's as long as I'll spend on it.
Just to reinforce what Nonagon asked- Is this really what you'd like to be associated with, Fal?
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From all I may be, or have been before, To mingle with the Universe, and feel What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,308
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 4 minutes
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Those Jews weren’t poisoned. They just had uncontrolled diabetes.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I don't know if it's true or not. 
Then I take it you haven't read much of the literature surrounding WWII history.
I haven't seen any actual literature documenting organized holocaust, no. I'm NOT saying it didn't happen, I'm saying if it exists you would easily be able to find it.
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Nonagon Infinity said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: All you have to do now is find that "German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews" and then you'll have proven your point.
I kind of find it hard to believe that this is even a question for you, as someone who is the self-proclaimed king of calling out people on their "make-believe".
So you don't have it? That's all you had to say, you didn't need a whole paragraph belittling me for asking about it.
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Nonagon Infinity said: The idea that the Nazis were unaware of the plan to exterminate the Jews is one of the most make-believe claims imaginable.
Who made that claim? I didn't present it, nor did Paul Craig Roberts in the Wikipedia quote I provided.
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: Every time I engage in conversation with you, I see more and more that you're not interested in debate. You're interested in "finding the truth", which is a position that sounds good on paper, but often ends up being counterproductive to legitimate debate.
Because I ask for evidence that you can't/won't provide? I find the opposite true, actually. 
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: When you shed doubt on the historical facts of the Holocaust, you are not simply being skeptical with the purpose of "finding the truth". You are implicitly defending an extremely dangerous political narrative that can have real world consequences, which is the idea that the Nazis were blameless. Is that really a point you want to defend?
No, I definitely never said the holocaust wasn't real, and I don't know if Paul Craig Roberts did. If the evidence is missing, why can't we just agree Wikipedia was right that the Germans did a good job of destroying it? Why do we have to make believe I don't like debate because some evidence is missing?
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Nonagon Infinity said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: If you can't find it, Paul Craig Roberts has proven his.
Absolutely not.
The fact that there was no paper document describing the details of The Final Solution does not mean that we get to fill in the cracks in history with whatever narrative we like, yet that is exactly what Irving and Roberts are doing.
At least you're now admitting Paul Craig Roberts was right. Is he "filling in the cracks", or or you doing that for him? I didn't see him say the holocaust is fake.
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Nonagon Infinity said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm interested to know which of you two is wrong on this.
That's always what it seems to come down to for you: who's right and who's wrong? I couldn't imagine a more simplistic worldview, or one that is more driven by the ego.
I guess that's one of the oddest ways I've ever been told I'm right about something, but ok.
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Nonagon Infinity said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Regardless, it doesn't even matter to the point above.
If you don't want to discuss the matter anymore, then that's fine, but Paul Craig Roberts is a Holocaust denier. It's not a matter of opinion or interpretation. He's a Holocaust denier.
Can you provide a quote of something to back that up, or are you the one "filling in the blanks"? I haven't seen him say that, and I'm certainly not saying that.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
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Back to the voting topic, I don't think anyone's replied to this post:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm doing my best to figure out what the voting situation is, though many people here can't seem to get past "whatever my side tells me to believe, is what I'm going to believe, I'm not going to look into it".
It turns out Trump DOES support mail in voting for all who request it. What's new/different this time around is that Democrats want to give everyone a mail in ballot whether they request it or not. And we know how inaccurate the voter rolls are.
So I believe Trump may have a valid concern.
New Local Election Ordered in N.J. After Mail-In Voter Fraud Charges The New York Times Aug. 19, 2020
Quote:
In the days before New Jersey’s third-largest city held municipal elections in May entirely by mail, postal workers became suspicious when they found hundreds of ballots bundled together.
On Wednesday, a New Jersey judge ruled that the election in Paterson, N.J., had been irreversibly tainted and ordered a new vote to be held in November to settle the race for the City Council seat.
Mr. Trump’s campaign cited the Paterson corruption case as a reason not to expand voting by mail. “By ordering universal vote-by-mail, he has created a recipe for disaster”
...more than 3,000 ballots that were thrown out to make the case that mail-in voting makes it too easy to manipulate elections by allowing ineligible voters, including the dead, to vote.
Rick Hasen, an election law professor at the University of California, Irvine, School of Law, said the problems in Paterson illustrate the challenges of mass rollouts of mail-in voting and the need for anti-fraud mechanisms like ballot tracking, which allows voters to follow their ballots through the postal system.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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birdeatingspider
Stranger in Paradise



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,070
Loc: so many roads
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Quote:
In Canada and Europe a researcher who challenges the official Holocaust story can be imprisoned regardless of the objectivity of his research. The question should be: is he right or wrong, not has he violated a taboo lobbied into law. Even research that reports massacres of Jews can put a researcher in prison if he doesn’t support the official number of exterminated Jews and official means of extermination. If a researcher finds that two million Jews were machinegunned into open trenches but there were no gas chambers, he is toast if he publishes his findings.
(See what he did there?)
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As America and the Western World have many lies among their foundations and historical development, indoctrinated people are hostile to truth that disproves the lies that are the foundation of their belief system. Peoples, such as Americans, Canadians, and Europeans, who are accustomed to a diet of lies, are naturally hostile to the truth.
(Then here?)
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I suppose we gentile whites, if we had any pride, should regard these labels as badges of honor. We should respond to these labels applied by the Israel Lobby with the statement that yes, “we are all anti-semites” as long as you oppress the Palestinians, cause wars, interfere in our elections, purchase special interest laws that protect you from criticism and boycotts, and slander those of us who tell the truth.
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If the demonization of Jews led to the Holocaust, what will the demonization of White People lead to? Unlike feisty Jews, mentally and emotionally weak white gentiles, overwhelmed with a false sense of guilt, seem willing to accept their extermination.
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2020/02/13/white-people-are-being-erased/
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From all I may be, or have been before, To mingle with the Universe, and feel What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.
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birdeatingspider
Stranger in Paradise



Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,070
Loc: so many roads
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Quote:
What was the Holocaust? According to zionists, the Holocaust was National Socialist Germany’s elimination of 6 million Jews by first gassing them and then cremating the bodies. It is unclear how Germany managed this feat when all of its limited and dwindling resources were employed, unsuccessfully as it turns out, on the Russian front.
Quote:
"We know very little about the Holocaust, because no one is allowed to study it."
(What?!) https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/05/03/morality-truth-facts-exited-dying-west/
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From all I may be, or have been before, To mingle with the Universe, and feel What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 days
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I haven't seen any actual literature documenting organized holocaust, no. I'm NOT saying it didn't happen, I'm saying if it exists you would easily be able to find it.
Read any of the books published by Otto Frank (the only member of the Frank family who managed to survive the Holocaust), especially his publication of his daughter's diary, called Diary of a Young Girl. His books give first-hand accounts of what it was like to live as a Jew in Nazi Germany, and he is not the only survivor who gave an account of his survival. These accounts are evidence that the Nazis were responsible for the extermination of Jews (also known as The Final Solution). Are you saying that this, among other first-hand accounts of survivors and even the testimonies of Ally soldiers who freed Jews from the death camps at the end of the war, is not enough evidence to hold the Nazis responsible for the atrocities? Are you really saying that we need an explicit plan signed by Hitler himself to prove their guilt?
Another side point, since you're unfamiliar with the literature of this event: the word "Holocaust" is actually a bit problematic. The word comes from a Greek word that roughly translates to "burnt offering", which is a bit of an insult to the Jews that were murdered, as it implies that this was all some sort of sacrifice for a greater good. The preferred term for many Jews is "Shoah", which is the Hebrew word for catastrophe, which is an excellent way to describe what happened in Germany and Poland during the late thirties. I know that's kind of an aside, but what the hell. I'll still use the word Holocaust because that's the one that everyone recognizes.
I am not accusing you of saying that the Holocaust didn't happen. However, I have already made the point that you don't have to deny that six million Jews were killed in order to be considered a Holocaust denier. Holocaust denial takes many forms, but they all serve a common purpose: absolving the Nazis (especially Hitler) from guilt. Demanding a paper document detailing plans for the extermination of Jews as evidence of Hitler's guilt is a defense of Nazi innocence. It is a form of Holocaust denial, and it is exactly the behavior that Paul Craig Roberts is engaged in.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Nonagon Infinity said: I kind of find it hard to believe that this is even a question for you, as someone who is the self-proclaimed king of calling out people on their "make-believe".
So you don't have it? That's all you had to say, you didn't need a whole paragraph belittling me for asking about it.
This is a defense tactic I've seen from you on other threads: accusing people who challenge your outrageous positions of "attacking" you (in this case, "belittling" you). I'm not belittling you here. I'm telling you that your defense of Paul Craig Roberts is unjustifiable. That's not a personal attack on you, it's an attack on the position you're holding. Roberts is clearly a Holocaust denier, and I find it kind of ironic that you would defend someone who holds such an absurd position if you're really so concerned with the truth.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Nonagon Infinity said: The idea that the Nazis were unaware of the plan to exterminate the Jews is one of the most make-believe claims imaginable.
Who made that claim? I didn't present it, nor did Paul Craig Roberts in the Wikipedia quote I provided.
David Irving made that claim, and Paul Craig Roberts supported it without any criticism in his article that I linked in my last comment. Roberts might not have said it himself, but he agreed with it.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Nonagon Infinity said: Every time I engage in conversation with you, I see more and more that you're not interested in debate. You're interested in "finding the truth", which is a position that sounds good on paper, but often ends up being counterproductive to legitimate debate.
Because I ask for evidence that you can't/won't provide? I find the opposite true, actually. 
The demand of such evidence is a form of Holocaust denial, though. It's literally an attempt to defend the Nazis.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: When you shed doubt on the historical facts of the Holocaust, you are not simply being skeptical with the purpose of "finding the truth". You are implicitly defending an extremely dangerous political narrative that can have real world consequences, which is the idea that the Nazis were blameless. Is that really a point you want to defend?
No, I definitely never said the holocaust wasn't real, and I don't know if Paul Craig Roberts did. If the evidence is missing, why can't we just agree Wikipedia was right that the Germans did a good job of destroying it? Why do we have to make believe I don't like debate because some evidence is missing?
That is not how this conversation went down, though. I never accused you of believing the Holocaust wasn't real (I've already made it quite clear multiple times that this is not the only form of Holocaust denial). I jumped in the discussion when you said that Paul Craig Roberts' claims were "pretty reasonable", and I responded by saying that he is a Holocaust denier. I explained in great detail about why he was a Holocaust denier, and how his actions are all directed towards painting the Nazis in a blameless light. Now, all of a sudden, you're talking about whether or not there exists a paper document detailing the Final Solution (even though I've already explained that the demand for such a document is a form of Holocaust denial).
You are shifting the goalposts away from the discussion of whether or not Roberts is a Holocaust denier, which is why I confronted you in the first place. That is why I believe you're not interested in debate. Your defense of Roberts makes me sincerely wonder if you have some controversial opinion about the Holocaust that you're trying to obfuscate. However, I think the more likely scenario is that you don't actually hold any problematic views surrounding the Holocaust. No, what's really happening here is that you put forward a clear defense of Paul Craig Roberts, other people called you out and said that Roberts is a Holocaust denier, and now you're trying to muddy the waters of the conversation and make it look like you were really just concerned about whether or not a paper document detailing the Final Solution actually existed, which is a much more reasonable position than outright defending a Holocaust denier. That way, you're hoping that people will just drop it and that you'll look like you were the reasonable one all along (or that you were "right" or whatever). It's all directed towards obfuscating a controversial position you put forward (namely, that Roberts was "being reasonable"), and that's why I think you aren't interested in debate. You're much more concerned with your reputation than you are with discourse, which is why you frequently respond to criticism or polite correction by claiming it was a personal attack (or "belittlement" or whatever). It's all about ego, and it's kind of a waste of time for other forum users like myself who want to engage in real discussion about political issues. I know I'm not alone in that regard: this is a pattern. Someone confronts you about this shit on almost every thread you participate in. It's not a coincidence.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Nonagon Infinity said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm interested to know which of you two is wrong on this.
That's always what it seems to come down to for you: who's right and who's wrong? I couldn't imagine a more simplistic worldview, or one that is more driven by the ego.
I guess that's one of the oddest ways I've ever been told I'm right about something, but ok.
I rest my case.
You know what, Falcon, if that's what you need to tell yourself, then I guess that works for me. If this is really all just about who's right and who's wrong, then I concede to you: you're right. Congratulations, man.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,322
Last seen: 5 hours, 52 minutes
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: Are you really saying that we need an explicit plan signed by Hitler himself to prove their guilt?
Based on Falcon's previous arguments, this is exactly what he wants. He needs a document, signed by Hitler, notarized, and the signing ceremony photographed. Without that, he will not accept any accusations of guilt against Hitler.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,800
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Dude, Hitler publicly promised the complete annihilation of the jews. After that, millions were killed by people under his command.
Coincidence? I think not.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
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I think the holocaust happened and I think there's PLENTY of evidence that to prove that it did, but I'm also saying that Paul Craig Roberts may have been correct in saying that they never found the German plans. You seem to have agreed with that, yet you still want to call him a denier. Maybe you've seen other things from Paul Craig Roberts that I haven't seen, but I don't think that statement makes him a denier, especially since I think you agreed with it.
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: The demand of such evidence is a form of Holocaust denial, though. It's literally an attempt to defend the Nazis.
Nobody's "demanding" (your word) such evidence, they're simply pointing out that this hasn't been found.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Enlil]
#26948286 - 09/21/20 06:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Kryptos said:
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Nonagon Infinity said: Are you really saying that we need an explicit plan signed by Hitler himself to prove their guilt?
Based on Falcon's previous arguments, this is exactly what he wants. He needs a document, signed by Hitler, notarized, and the signing ceremony photographed. Without that, he will not accept any accusations of guilt against Hitler.
Quote:
Enlil said: Dude, Hitler publicly promised the complete annihilation of the jews. After that, millions were killed by people under his command.
Coincidence? I think not.
HOLY MAKE BELIEVE dudes! Nonagon's got everyone thinking I don't believe in the holocaust. Can I get a mod to please ask people to stop with all the make believe? I spend almost all my time correcting such people here.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Back to the voting topic, I don't think anyone's replied to this post:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm doing my best to figure out what the voting situation is, though many people here can't seem to get past "whatever my side tells me to believe, is what I'm going to believe, I'm not going to look into it".
It turns out Trump DOES support mail in voting for all who request it. What's new/different this time around is that Democrats want to give everyone a mail in ballot whether they request it or not. And we know how inaccurate the voter rolls are.
So I believe Trump may have a valid concern.
New Local Election Ordered in N.J. After Mail-In Voter Fraud Charges The New York Times Aug. 19, 2020
Quote:
In the days before New Jersey’s third-largest city held municipal elections in May entirely by mail, postal workers became suspicious when they found hundreds of ballots bundled together.
On Wednesday, a New Jersey judge ruled that the election in Paterson, N.J., had been irreversibly tainted and ordered a new vote to be held in November to settle the race for the City Council seat.
Mr. Trump’s campaign cited the Paterson corruption case as a reason not to expand voting by mail. “By ordering universal vote-by-mail, he has created a recipe for disaster”
...more than 3,000 ballots that were thrown out to make the case that mail-in voting makes it too easy to manipulate elections by allowing ineligible voters, including the dead, to vote.
Rick Hasen, an election law professor at the University of California, Irvine, School of Law, said the problems in Paterson illustrate the challenges of mass rollouts of mail-in voting and the need for anti-fraud mechanisms like ballot tracking, which allows voters to follow their ballots through the postal system.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Mycolorado
Hobbyist


Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 8,538
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,800
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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What did I make believe? What is false in my post?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
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Re: DNC Caught Political HeadHunting - Bannon [Re: Enlil]
#26948428 - 09/21/20 07:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I agree with your post, but I'm not sure why you directed it at me. Kryptos' post was clearly make believe though.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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