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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,951
Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26947147 - 09/21/20 02:24 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You're overlooking modern dynamic biomechanics in favor or archeic paranormal pseudoscience.

It's like someone showed you a plasma ball lamp and told you that's what makes you you and then it blew your friggin mind open and you never recovered..

You're describing nerves and action potentials..

Quote:

thealienthatategod said: studying the solid state semiconductor crystalline properties of the connective tissues and the cytoskeleton, and the electrical currents generated by a flow of protons may lead to a more complete understanding of biological energetics than what currently exists.  what emerges is a picture of how sensory information can produce stable large-scale coherent  vibrations that communicate regulatory information that is responsible for the integration of function taking place at various levels within the human organism.  it is a gross oversimplification to view the nervous system as the basic control system of the body, because it leaves out the whole-systems integated communication system described above.




We integrate environmental information and extrapolate an understanding!



The nervous system doesn't just 'control the body', it is our entire being. It is the integrated system and you're a blind ass if you can't see it.

P.s. Sorry @b ass! But is required to say here


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: sudly]
    #26947247 - 09/21/20 06:18 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

All good :cool::thumbup:


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #26947287 - 09/21/20 06:52 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary?

how is it that just because something doesn't conform to established ideas about how the world normally works that it is considered imaginary or impossible?



when you observe your mental contents, you may note among them sensations arise and pass away.
some of them you are familiar with, they confirm your expectations of posture and contact, some sounds are reassuring for the presence or absence of activities around you, etc.

All of those which you do not parse into known aspects of your world seem to be 'energies'.

You may even engage synesthesia to colorize these 'energies' or you may extrapolate these 'energies' into lines tracing the paths of sensations into plausible structures. (this is what all of us do when we are stoned)

All of this is possible because of what we can call imagination, or simply "WOW, man, did you feel that? it went right though my neck..."

The mind can be turned to the purpose of tracing ambient sensation into paths of energy in the world, even if all it is physically is a few moments of 'abstract' sensation (unrecognized cognition).

Separate from this is the rich experience of prana or psychic energy from breath that can fill your body with light and make everything sparkle as if inner light is breaking through the 'cracks' of reality.

This also is imaginative extension and infill of mental contents using the mental resonance of concentrative absorption. Even though millions of people have experienced these 'energies' does not mean that they are external or objective reality; they are reality, but it is the inner reality, of the mind completing perception using abstractions from sensory experience that are strong momentary evidence that something is happening but it does not quite confirm expectations for known objects and activities in the world, including the body.

Acupuncture meridians are a great example of cultural acceptance in China and Japan (e.g.) of the formalization of a working system (of active points along lines) in which somatic responses to stimulation produces anesthesia or healing. This is usually taken to be proof of an alternate energy action in the body which science cannot detect.

Science has not yet looked at Acupuncture systematically, however when it is put into the lab along with real time high resolution brain scans, what we will most likely find is that when points are stimulated the resulting cerebral cortical field propagation of energy intersects at several locations in a traditional interference pattern with very high peak energy points and some low energy areas. the crisscross points of energy (like the intersecting rings a few raindrops would make on water) from afferent sensory signals cause efferent neural excitation responses. This can explain the magic of acupuncture (without resorting to fake quantum gibberish), and also the key to understanding engram formation and perceptive recognition of experience.

No Ethereal energies are required, but our minds can whoop up a picture for them at any moment's notice.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
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Registered: 09/20/05
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Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26947294 - 09/21/20 07:00 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Excellent, fascinating post!

I've done acupuncture quite a bit without really having any contextual framework for how it works, aside from hearing some things about body meridians. One acupuncturist mentioned to me a meridian that includes neck, shoulders, knees and gut. After that I began to notice that certain foods did, in addition to making my gut taut and bloated, cause my knees, back and elsewhere to tighten considerably. I'd always approached such aches and inflammation as something to be resolved by stretching, but now I understand it really has to do with diet as much or more than movement. That's a pretty interesting perspective shift.


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
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Registered: 10/10/17
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Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: sudly]
    #26947457 - 09/21/20 09:24 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

my description obviously wasn't very good if you think i'm describing the nervous system.

connective tissue consciousness precedes neurological consciousness.  it is a precognitive consciousness.  it is far more sophisticated than neurological consciousness, because it is able to take in, store, and process far more information than we can consciously know and access.

the works of Dr. Joie Jones disovered that stimulating vision realated accupuncture points on the foot activate neural circuits in the occipital lobes, but the stimulation happens at a rate that is too rapid for the signal to be conducted and processed by nerve impulses.  the velocity is faster then, and preceds what the nervous system is capable of.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
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Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26947500 - 09/21/20 09:57 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

the energy i'm talking about in the connective tissues isn't considered to be a metaphical energy.

there are many vibrations and spectrums that the eyes and ears are not capable of consciously tuning into, due to programmed consciousness filters that are built in to suit the environment of life survival.  the proprioceptors within the connective tissues are aware of all vibrations because they are in direct interaction
with the vibration/matter, but typically, humans are not aware of this on a conscious level.

a neurophysiologist look for consciousness  in the operation of interconnected nerve networks.

cell biologists look for consciousness in the patterns of proteins deposited in arrays of micro-tubules or other cytoskeletal elements within neurons and other cells.

neurochemists looks for consciousness in the patterns of neurotransmitters and neurohormones.

quantum physicists and quantum psychologists looks for consciousness as an emergent property of matter, space and waves.

may be its most productive to view consciousness as a synergistic, cooperative, or collective property of a system that has emerged from a multilayered set of subsystems - this is the system that i am speaking of that ariese for the connective tissues.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26947557 - 09/21/20 10:33 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
...connective tissue consciousness precedes neurological consciousness.  it is a precognitive consciousness.  it is far more sophisticated than neurological consciousness, because it is able to take in, store, and process far more information than we can consciously know and access.
...




What does it take in?
How does it store?

Critical thinking is what I am missing here.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,829
Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26947745 - 09/21/20 12:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Some studies of acupuncture find it no different from placebo.
It never did anything for me.
All those needles force one to lie still,
and leave one very vulnerable,
perfect conditions for hypnotic self suggestion to go to work.

The true test, for mysterious body energies & mental powers, would be long lasting healing effects. Wim Hof claims some such effects, from his method, but does not talk of chi as far as I know. He & his followers do stay in ice water for long periods. And he encouraged scientific studies of his method--(see the links below for details). So some effects and processes and abilities of body and mind are not yet understood by science.
It remains for the individual to determine what is worth trying and what is a scam, and a BS type theory.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=wim+hof+immune+system+study&t=h_&ia=web


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: laughingdog]
    #26947790 - 09/21/20 01:19 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

they do use acupuncture effectively for anesthesia in china.



A child, fully awake and comfortable, undergoing open heart surgery for repair of a congenital ventricular septal defect under acupuncture anesthesia in a hospital in Shanghai.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Acupuncture-anesthesia-for-open-heart-surgery%3A-and-Cheng/9786bb9ddc64ab4503d491eaf69cf6236b31d66b

the stimuli on specific points kicks the brain into an anesthetic response, shutting down sensations of pain and discomfort.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
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Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,367
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Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26947841 - 09/21/20 01:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Hypnosis is involved perhaps in a culture where acupuncture is widely accepted.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
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Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: laughingdog]
    #26947947 - 09/21/20 02:58 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Well, acupuncture has very objectively helped mobility and pain in three dogs I have had when in waning years, and my Mom the equestrian says it is effective for horses all the time. I don't think anything mystical is going on, but rather a subtle reorientation of the body's electric field, leading to positive neurological effects.

So I can tell you it works for nonhuman mammals. I have never tried it.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Posts: 4,829
Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26947992 - 09/21/20 03:23 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Strange,
seems it remains a mystery,
as animals would not be suggestible.

There may be a big difference depending on who the practitioner is.
I don't know, though.

In any case unlike doing Qigong, (if it works), it makes healing dependent on another.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: laughingdog]
    #26948276 - 09/21/20 06:21 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I'm going to guess that quite early on, people developed something like acupressure for headaches.
after some specialization, the healers, wizards, or whatever would experiment finding that if you massage two different spots that some activity in a third area, zone, or organ would occur.
to find the interactions of more than 3 spots you would need to use 3 hands or some tools to take the place of fingers.
For that stones could work - they would have found that thorns could work well too.
In this way I think acupuncture was born. passed down by word of mouth.
As new combinations of points got unwieldly to remember this way I think they brought in the meridians as a visual mnemonic.
Later on some potheads (thousands of years ago) with alex grey types of visions made up the stuff about energy in the mnemonic meridians.

So now we have an odd lore that used to be a science of indirect multipoint stimulation healing with thorns that got transmuted through history as a magic energy knowledge.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26948347 - 09/21/20 07:08 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
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Registered: 10/10/17
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Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26948807 - 09/22/20 05:26 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
...connective tissue consciousness precedes neurological consciousness.  it is a precognitive consciousness.  it is far more sophisticated than neurological consciousness, because it is able to take in, store, and process far more information than we can consciously know and access.
...




What does it take in?
How does it store?

Critical thinking is what I am missing here.




life is too rapid and subtle to be explained by neurological and biochemical processes.  the neurological bandwidth of consciousness - it’s processing and storage capabilities - is a reduced version of the sensory bandwidth.  the senses, which humans are unconscious of many, perform the job of breaking down the continuum of reality into tiny, discrete pieces that can be analyzed by the sensory system's receptors. 

electrons and protons are carriers of energy and information, and electricity and magnetism are the basis of life.  the bulk of the human organism is composed of proteins, and energy and information is propagated through this protein matrix in the form of vibrations and electrons.  the sensory receptors, within the protein matrix, communicate this information through the whole organism simultaneously, and then it is reassembled in the brain in a coherent form again.  this is what I meant when i said it precedes neurological consciousness.

the soliton - a collective excited state - is capable of carrying a large amount of energy over a long distance - in this case within the protein matrix, without loss, and this is how the sensory bandwidth of consciousness communicates and stores this info.

quantum electronic biology appears anomalous from a logical scientific perspective until...it’s not.  until then, mechanists will continue to view the human organism as a complex chemical-mechanistic machine.


Edited by thealienthatategod (09/22/20 07:35 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26948910 - 09/22/20 07:55 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
...

the solution - a collective excited state - is capable of carrying a large amount of energy over a long distance - in this case within the protein matrix, without loss, and this is how the sensory bandwidth of consciousness communicates and stores this info.

quantum electronic biology appears anomalous from a logical scientific perspective until...it’s not.  until then, mechanists will continue to view the human organism as a complex chemical-mechanistic machine.




So you do not think it is important to actually have a way of storing information as long as you can use the words?

This is a deceptive skill you are exercising here, or poor use of language to say what you mean.

Bringing in quantum vague terms does not wrap it up very nicely, especially since, so far, storage of vast amounts of detailed information or patterns is not being done using anything quantum.

magnetic tape stores bits or relative intensity in a way that can be played back, same for magnetic and laser disks.
RAM can store a pattern and spill it back out to connected components.

Cells do not do this, and parts of cells do not do this.

the one term in your comment that might lead somewhere "- a collective excited state -" was immediately crushed in importance by switching to some partly referenced idea about energy and distance and then mangled by talking about protein matrix (presumably subcellular again).

Does this mean you are thinking that each neuron is a tape recorder, because it is not a reasonable concept in neurology. there are no pathways that funnel to single neurons, nor any pathways that branch out from single neurons such that streams could be recorded or played back, so this is not a direction to seek.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
Non-Prophet
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Registered: 05/21/20
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Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26949246 - 09/22/20 12:16 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
I take smart peoples word on it and it makes sense.




Hey its good to be honest. I guess its OK to take things on faith like that, but I'm more of a "show it to me and 'splain it to me please" type. I'm skeptical of everything... even myself :confused:


To me, the most difficult part of Evolution to grasp is the self-replicating DNA molecule. This video blows my mind every time I see it.



--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Posts: 37,706
Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26949301 - 09/22/20 12:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

very cool animation.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinethealienthatategod
retrovertigo
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Registered: 10/10/17
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Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26949424 - 09/22/20 02:08 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

no, i do not think that neurons are tape recorders.  you speak of the brain and neurology as if they are something that are distinguishable from the rest of the body.  there is no separation between the mind and the body, any separation that is perceived between the two is an illusion.  no one part of the body or mind is in control, nothing is in control, yet everything is in control!  the whole is indistinguishable from the part in a network of molecular democracy.  it is an unfragmented, non-dualist knowledge system whose integration gives rise to large-scale actions, that are coordinated in a continuum of macroscopic to the microscopic and vice versa.  the protein matrix is the substrate of this coordinated whole.

living systems are not subject to the laws of thermodynamics.  the sentient whole has no definite localizations or boundaries.  energy can be delocalized over all modes, or concentrated in a single mode.  the geometrically coherent structures of the human organism allow for coherent excitations to develop, and the organic wholeness of the human organism behaves as a single crystal-like structure that is only describable in terms of quantum coherence. 

tissue solitons possess magnetic properties as each soliton is a magnetic monopole.  the electric fields generated by connective tissues can propagate as a wave through surrounding tissue, and this ripple effect, the collected excited state, is the soliton.  the crystalline materials are what produce large-scale coherent vibrations that communicate the regulatory information that are conducted through the entire protein matrix. the components of this crystalline matrix are semiconductors that can conduct and process vibrational information, and convert energy from one form to another.

electromagnetism has succeeded in changing civilization through technology, and this same energy needs to be recognized in living systems if organization and control of the whole human organism, and its most important functions is to be understood.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
Re: Evolution, religion probability and physics [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26949566 - 09/22/20 03:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I never declared that the brain or mind were in control of anything, and I never spoke of the brain and body as separate. If you can find that in any one of 16 years of my comments I would be surprised.

but you speak in repetitive nonsense and generalizations, and I have been saying that in every way I can think of.

Are you trying to describe memory in that last 3 paragraphs, does anybody besides you understand what you mean with regard to this.


--------------------
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