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InvisibleMateja
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Forrester]
    #26945600 - 09/20/20 07:05 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

So what you are saying is that there will always be damp perlite at the surface level and near the bottom should contain dry perlite? Could you mention a scenario in which this effect can be observed? Because I have already mentioned several situations which clearly show that the opposite of what you're saying is true.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Mateja]
    #26945624 - 09/20/20 07:23 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
So what you are saying is that there will always be damp perlite at the surface level and near the bottom should contain dry perlite?




Can you show me where I said anything remotely close to this?

You're the only one that's said anything about layers.  All I said was that perlite evaporates water off it and puts it in the air, creating humidity.  Which, somehow, amazingly, you are arguing with.


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Forrester]
    #26945640 - 09/20/20 07:37 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

Mateah said:
So what you are saying is that there will always be damp perlite at the surface level and near the bottom should contain dry perlite?




Can you show me where I said anything remotely close to this?



For example here:
Quote:

Forrester said:
when perlite dries out, it does so because the moisture has gone somehwere.  Into the air in the fruiting chamber.  Exactly what it was designed to do.



The only part of the perlite that's in contact with the air inside the fruiting chamber is the top layer at the surface, so undoubtedly you are referring to this portion of the moisture emitting perlite?


And please try to do more of your own explaining instead of making me twist your arm until youre forced to explain your statements  :shrug:


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OfflinePearl
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Mateja]
    #26945881 - 09/20/20 10:04 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Not to put words into Forrester's mouth here, but perlite isn't a solid mass but is many pieces.

Anything that evaporates into the air would move through the pieces as humid air is lighter than non.


Edited by Pearl (09/20/20 10:05 AM)


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Pearl]
    #26945919 - 09/20/20 10:25 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pearl said:
Not to put words into Forrester's mouth here, but perlite isn't a solid mass but is many pieces.

Anything that evaporates into the air would move through the pieces as humid air is lighter than non.



Yes, I'd say that's correct! It's kind of what I've as well contrived from our conversations so far. But I'm still missng the explanation as to how the majority of the perlite mass can stay wet for periods while it gradually dries from the surface towards the centre. If that was the case that water vapors are wicked throughout the perlite from the bottom up then you'd undeniably need to encounter drying perlite at the bottom and not the top, would you agree?


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Edited by Mateja (09/20/20 10:31 AM)


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OfflinePearl
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Mateja]
    #26946037 - 09/20/20 11:33 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think anyone is saying that water vapor makes nearby perlite pieces wet, just the air around them becomes humid.

The surface layer is exposed to much more air than any other section, as the top is not sandwiched by the tub and other bits of perlite. And humid air rises.

Therefore, the level of humidity on the surface is less than in the interior and bottom of the perlite.

As the moisture in the top pieces is lost to evaporation, the air around them becomes less humid and the pieces below start to lose their moisture to meet the void.


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Pearl]
    #26946129 - 09/20/20 12:28 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pearl said:
I don't think anyone is saying that water vapor makes nearby perlite pieces wet, just the air around them becomes humid.

The surface layer is exposed to much more air than any other section, as the top is not sandwiched by the tub and other bits of perlite. And humid air rises.

Therefore, the level of humidity on the surface is less than in the interior and bottom of the perlite.

As the moisture in the top pieces is lost to evaporation, the air around them becomes less humid and the pieces below start to lose their moisture to meet the void



Are you simply speculating or do you base that on observations made when inspecting this phenomena? I'm just curious you know, so I can gauge better how much effort to put into the validity of your theory (or observation)


And yes, I still agree that i understood what Forrester and you are saying, mainly that the water that's contained inside the perlite evaporates off and is wicked throughout the perlite mass out the top surface. What you call "humid air" is what I call water inside and around the perlite that is evaporating off and we're talking about the same thing :thumbup: still i don't understand how the bottom of the tub stays wet for so long if it's constantly 7n contact with moving air as it supposedly circulates through the bottom holes. I'm obviously looking for more than just free speculations. There's a tub full of perlite right across from where I'm sitting, it's calling my name so imma just zip it for a day or so and come back with more tangible arguments. :takingnotes:


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OfflinePearl
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Mateja]
    #26947643 - 09/21/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I have not used perlite in any grows, and I'm not claiming to be an expert on perlite's water retaining and distributing properties at all, just to be clear. I am simply going on physics here.

Humid air rises, so humidity would not escape out of the bottom holes to any noticeable degree. The holes in the bottom are no match for the lack of cover at the surface, so the theory still stands that moisture is lost through the surface first.

All things being equal, things like to find a balance. If the air around a piece of wet perlite is super humid, no evaporation would occur, as the balance is already met. Once the air drops in humidity (by the humid air rising), the moisture inside the perlite would evaporate to level it out. This would happen until all water is fully evaporated.

I would assume that the very last bit of wet perlite would be slightly above or at the bottom center of the container, if that could even be accurately measured.

In the end, I dunno, as I've not personally used perlite. But I'd imagine this thought exercise, and anything backed up by actual trials, may be beneficial to someone out there reading. :smile:


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Offlinesmalltalk_canceled
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Pearl]
    #26947758 - 09/21/20 12:58 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Never use perlite as a casing boys


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Pearl]
    #26947773 - 09/21/20 01:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pearl said:
In the end, I dunno



But I do, that's what Ive been trying to explain to Forrester.
I stopped speculating a while ago after I went and took a look for myself. :popcorn:
I highly recommend reserving strong opinions for subjects one knows from experience :super:


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Mateja]
    #26947987 - 09/21/20 03:21 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

And I highly recommend sticking to well-proven methods if you're new at this.

I never said this wouldn't work either, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove :confused:

You could put a wet towel in the bottom and it would work.  I was just clarifying how perlite works with air flowing through it, to achieve humidity AND fresh air at once.  That's why it's been such a popular method.


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


Edited by Forrester (09/21/20 03:46 PM)


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Forrester]
    #26948086 - 09/21/20 04:12 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove :confused:



That it's possible to learn new things by experimenting, observing and documenting results :shrug:
You know, checkin the data, verifying stuff, challenging established propaganda, testing out theories, breaking norms, estsblishing new paradigms. The good old stuff we need more of here. If I do get scolded for not wearing my humble cap at all times I'll probably get a little dent in the EGO but knowing for sure that I never jeopardized my intellectual integrity in exchange for being liked more or being politically correct. Never meant to be mean towards anyones ideas, right to self expression or anything or anyone for that matter. I'm mostly just interested in learning about how stuff works and if I come across valuable information I will share it with everyone.


I hope you have a nice day man and don't mind me I'm just being the foe that this forum deserves :mushroom2::heart:


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Mateja]
    #26948113 - 09/21/20 04:24 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
That it's possible to learn new things by experimenting, observing and documenting results




Well I have never once disagreed with that! :smile:


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Forrester]
    #26948120 - 09/21/20 04:29 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

And I have never learned anything from a man who agreed with me :crazy2::heart:


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Re: First grow, couple questions [Re: Mateja]
    #26949975 - 09/22/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

this is how you grow manly shrooms guys, you name your strain Odin
and you grow them on your own beard



Nitrogen and other additives in human hair, I can see them eating me and I masturbate in the growing room.

Bonus inoculation points when you do g2g with hairy corn kernels

So stop crying about details bitches


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Edited by smalltalk_canceled (09/22/20 07:34 PM)


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