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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26962211 - 09/30/20 02:47 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

just replace the words imaginary or impossible in the thread title with bullshit.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26962650 - 09/30/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

"just replace the words imaginary or impossible in the thread title with bullshit."

In that case the difference is determined by smell.

Considering that much of what is felt to be reality is determined by culture or social agreement - (the value of pieces of paper called money being a good example) - it is perhaps often good to remember the story of "the emperor's clothes" before deciding whether or not to play along with the game.

Like a game of musical chairs, one doesn't want to be caught out when the music stops.

Its tricky being a social animal.


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26962867 - 09/30/20 08:57 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

by examining bodily excrements does it become any easier to call what is real into question?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26963062 - 09/30/20 10:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

:lol:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26963346 - 10/01/20 06:22 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

wash hands frequently. wear a mask.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Registered: 11/15/09
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26963376 - 10/01/20 07:12 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

yeah and if you don't have a mask buy one now and get the best you can get

google it or something


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26963387 - 10/01/20 07:28 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

life in a bubble:




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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: laughingdog] * 2
    #26963408 - 10/01/20 07:58 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
I enjoyed Donald Hoffman's talk.
However he seems to box himself into a corner though, when he denies the reality of space and time, near the end, yet thinks science and math can solve the puzzle of reality.
Why?
Because, explaining make use of causality,
and causality
depends upon time.

The guy at the end, (the TED host?), seems to have missed this point, which I think is the crucial point, or objection.




I'm glad you like it laughingdog, Hoffman is one of my favourite deep thinkers to listen to.

The illusion of space-time is not a new concept, the mystics and almost anyone who has dosed on shrooms might concur that space and time are not fundamental reality.

To make sense of everything, the person who I have been following for many years is Tom Campbell. He is a remarkable guy not just for his Theory Of Everything but his apparent non-ordinary abilities... he is the Merlin or Gandalf of our times in my estimation.

If anyone else is interested, there is a fundraiser project that has raised over $200,000 to scientifically test Campbell's theory that we are living in a virtual reality:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/simulation/do-we-live-in-a-virtual-reality

And Campbell's YouTube channel is a smorgasbord of fascinating videos on physics, the paranormal, love, and what it all means:

https://www.youtube.com/user/twcjr44

It must be 10 years or more than I have been following Tom Campbell and I have yet to find errors or contradictions in his ideas and presentations. He is absolutely 1 in a billion, he is without equal.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: Warrk]
    #26963421 - 10/01/20 08:04 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

According to Wikipedia, ā€œUpon completion of My Big TOE, Campbell sent copies of the book to leading physicists, and fellow scientists, but received little response. This prompted Campbell to forgo enlisting support from ā€œthe topā€, in favor of reaching out to lay audiences as a better way to share and spread his ideas about consciousness and the nature of reality.ā€


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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #26963432 - 10/01/20 08:24 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I've read Campbell's Wikipedia entry too redgreenvine, if you were to make a judgement on the guy based on what Wikipedia has to say I would understand where you are coming from but would be disappointed that you don't feel compelled to dig deeper and get to something that has incredible explanatory power.

Many years ago I sent Campbell's material to a professor of theoretical physics who is a friend of mine for his feedback and critique. I don't think he could be bothered reading much of the stuff. Campbell is too revolutionary for most academics, he turns conventional physics on its head with his conclusions yet he was able to penetrate further than what Einstein was grappling with for so long without success.

I persevered with Campbell and am glad that I did even though a lot of of the information is hard to swallow and smacks you in the face. But it makes sense now the longer I let is sit and to let it permeate my consciousness...


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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: Warrk] * 2
    #26963459 - 10/01/20 08:46 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

This looks like an interesting paper as a follow up to my previous post:

https://ijqf.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/IJQF2017v3n3p2.pdf


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: Warrk] * 1
    #26963468 - 10/01/20 08:52 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

what you think of as revolutionary is not necessarily a revolution of intelligence over insanity.

the main error that I see is a proposition for simulation with no simulator that is not simulated. It is an Ouroboros proposition without functional evidence.

That is not to say that Ouroboric concepts are bad, I think of standing waves as ouroboric and that may be close to what time+gravity fields are made of; but it is magical thinking through and through which is why physicists are not humoring Campbell.


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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #26963525 - 10/01/20 09:34 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I think you are wrong redgreenvines because you don’t understand Campbell’s version of the Simulation Hypothesis. And the error you have pointed out is taken care of by Campbell, it is after all a Theory of Everything. A brief explanation in my own words is that the subset can never comprehend the superset. The simulator can never be understood because it is outside our realm of existence just as Donkey Kong, Mario and Pacman can never know who wrote the code for the game they feature in.  But that is not reason to refute the existence of a code writer.

If you read the paper above you will see that 2 physicists, from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (California Institute of Technology) no less, are co-authors with Campbell.

You are on the right path by being skeptical my friend, that is the way which Campbell urges us to be. The best thing about Campbell’s TOE is that it is experiential and you can put it to the test yourself, it isn’t mere theory.

I bring up Campbell’s TOE here for those who are interested in exploring big picture stuff.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: Warrk]
    #26963612 - 10/01/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

The analogy of donkey kong does not wash as an explanation.
the characters are us, and we do understand digital computing if we try the slightest.

Also by declaring that the simulation is beyond understanding, you and he are closing off science and writing a new bible in which you use "SIM" as a nonbinary pronoun for "GOD".


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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #26963660 - 10/01/20 11:06 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Any analogy is never perfect. I guess I could choose another game and another character, one that is not played by a human being but no doubt someone will find fault with that too.

Tom is my hero anyway, I don't mind saying that.

And there are a series of experiments that will test his theory so it doesn't really matter what we think or if we agree or not.

What is your area of expertise btw redgreenvines? What is the highest level of education you have achieved, and in what field?

I like your skepticism but I think you are still wrong, if only you invested time in digging into the material and digesting it instead of debating the subject without understanding it. When you have read the book or listened to 2 hours of any of Campbell's presentations that would impress me rather than making hasty conclusions... your second paragraph troubles me on a number of fronts and all I can really say at this point is that you don't get it yet. I think you will though eventually when you put in the hours and do the hard yards. It is easy being an armchair critic and everyone these days has an opinion on everything.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: Warrk]
    #26963687 - 10/01/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I was a biochemist and molecular biologist with majors in neurophysiology. BSc. Then I was a supervisor of construction and built subdivisions of houses. Then self trained computer software developer for 35 years specializing in video interfaces, computer animation as well as computer vision. I have most recently worked on banking projects related to ADA conformance.

Now I am mostly a shroomer.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26963729 - 10/01/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

many times when I have been on mushrooms I have thought it is my favorite drugs

it is that good

3 good:

mushroom tea

strong mushrooms

oral dmt

...

:laugh:

I have found painting to be most effective in terms of how one has it

except finding one's way things like lsd

and redgreenvines


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: Warrk]
    #26963757 - 10/01/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

So the experiments which are proposed in the link provided are elaborations of the double slit experiment.

My position about the whole class of double slit experiments is that they are corrupted by insertion of particle detectors or counters - the declared Observer. The effect of the declared observer collapses the wave to a particle and prevents the nice interference pattern produced by the wave interaction. This is misinterpreted to declare (two assumptions without proof) that the consciousness of the observer, who may not even know he is the observer at the time of the experiment, collapses the wave ERGO CONSCIOUSNESS collapses the wave,

nah ah uh!
too many assumptions followed by a plethora of prowess in multi variate equations.

Yes you can produce math that models reality. no not all math models reality, and some math can be mistaken for reality while it merely stands alone in its perfection as a beautifully stated and balanced equation.

I am unmoved by your hero. and I find little experimental support in his proposed double slit enhancements for his theory of simulation.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: Warrk] * 1
    #26963821 - 10/01/20 12:56 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

A Google Books preview of Tom Campbell's My Big TOE (theory of everything) Link





Edited by Buster_Brown (10/01/20 01:05 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: how do you draw conclusions about what is real and what is imaginary or impossible? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26963883 - 10/01/20 01:30 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

when Einstein said that space and time as we experience them are illusions, he did not mean what is proposed in this big toe.

He meant that we have convinced ourselves that aspects of space and time are fixed while they are actually relative. He meant that in a fundamental way. illusion does not mean completely illusory or simulated. this taken out of context as well as the double slit experiments taken out of context leads to the whole sloppy big toe stubfest.


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