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Newbie
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Why so much condensation? (now pinning!)
#26947160 - 09/21/20 03:20 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I decided to give grow bags a go. I made an inoculation port with RTV over that that micropore tape. (It popped off after inoculation but I put a fresh piece of tape over it)
It cooled for a good 8 hours but there's a fuck ton of condensation.
How do I avoid this in the future? It had to have come thru the filter patch, as I heat sealed the end shut.
I'm pretty sure the water content was fine because it passed the paper towel test prior to loading.
I also made sure the filter patch was on top and the bag was in the center of the PC.
Edited by Newbie (11/12/20 02:24 PM)
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Lieutenant Pan
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie]
#26947166 - 09/21/20 03:49 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Paper towel? I think you were supposed to use tissue paper.
-------------------- I never thanked ya fer saving my life.
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Stromrider
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Your grain was too wet. Dont get it so hydrated next time. You can get by having the grain a little wet in smaller bag or jar sizes. When you got 4 or 5 quarts of grain in one container its very easy to get it too wet.
Also in a bag all the moisture will go to one spot in the bag when sterilizing. Usually you can just shake it around and redistribute it
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Newbie
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Stromrider]
#26947984 - 09/21/20 03:19 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Great, thank you for the advice!
It seems it wasn't all the way cooled before I knocked it up. It wasn't hot but definitely warmer than the environment that I inoculated it in. The condensation has cleared up a bit; I'll keep an eye on it though.
I have a bag of pure millet that I've been neglecting to use; I found a good tek here I might experiment with.
Out of curiousity, do you prefer bags or jars? I've lost a few jars recently to green mold, the only variable is using injection ports and not putting RTV around the top of my SFD, so I decided to dabble in bags. I gotta admit, I do love the arts and crafts aspect of making jars. I think I'm going to switch to plastic lids, though.
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Newbie
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie]
#26948043 - 09/21/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Also I figured why not make the most out of them and add these injection ports? When it's dry I'm gonna do the other side too.
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Newbie
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie]
#26949910 - 09/22/20 06:38 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's not actually looking as bad as it did. I'll keep a tight eye on it for contams but it was definitely the temperature differential that caused the initial spike.
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Newbie
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie]
#26955524 - 09/26/20 03:42 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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So far so good...
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Newbie
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie]
#26957247 - 09/27/20 10:14 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nobler Hino
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie] 1
#26957266 - 09/27/20 10:28 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Looking good. I dig your Mitch avatar too.
--------------------
   "The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me.” – Maria Sabina
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Lieutenant Pan
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Nobler Hino]
#26959652 - 09/29/20 02:01 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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when the bag gets to 25% you're going to want to break it up mmmkay?
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Newbie
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After breaking it up the other day. Seems to still be good. A little slow because we're waiting until the last minute to turn the heat on, but in digging the inoculation points.
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Nobler Hino
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie]
#26968235 - 10/03/20 09:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your grains look much better
--------------------
   "The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me.” – Maria Sabina
Edited by Nobler Hino (10/03/20 09:05 PM)
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Newbie
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Nobler Hino]
#26973295 - 10/07/20 06:23 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Still going strong, no signs of contams. Hopefully another week. I'm gonna case it with verm/peat/lime. I haven't done a casing in a decade so I'm curious to see how it performs.
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seand04
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Stromrider]
#26973307 - 10/07/20 06:42 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stromrider said: Your grain was too wet. Dont get it so hydrated next time. You can get by having the grain a little wet in smaller bag or jar sizes. When you got 4 or 5 quarts of grain in one container its very easy to get it too wet.
Also in a bag all the moisture will go to one spot in the bag when sterilizing. Usually you can just shake it around and redistribute it
Yea I have been doing 24 hour soak on wbs but I am going to lower it to 12 hours, hopefully it will help with the condensation and burst grain issues
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seand04
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie]
#26973310 - 10/07/20 06:43 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Newbie said:

Still going strong, no signs of contams. Hopefully another week. I'm gonna case it with verm/peat/lime. I haven't done a casing in a decade so I'm curious to see how it performs.
I would just spawn it to straight coir. In a mono
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Newbie
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: seand04]
#26973319 - 10/07/20 06:54 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Only coir? I've always done coir/verm but this time I decided I'd like to try a casing layer as well. What would be the benefit of straight coir? Doesn't verm help it hold moisture better?
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seand04
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie]
#26973324 - 10/07/20 06:57 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I recently stopped using verm and it actually seems to be growing better. I only use casing layer on PE variety
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Newbie
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: seand04]
#26973333 - 10/07/20 07:02 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah these are APEs. My LC is producing some crazy potent ones (as expected) but I'm hoping for a more even pinset. I've only started growing again in the last year but I've never had a nice, even, full pinset.
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seand04
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie]
#26973335 - 10/07/20 07:03 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Newbie said: Yeah these are APEs. My LC is producing some crazy potent ones (as expected) but I'm hoping for a more even pinset. I've only started growing again in the last year but I've never had a nice, even, full pinset.
Oh yea well casing layer for sure.
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meowjinx
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: seand04]
#26973362 - 10/07/20 07:19 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I believe that condensation might have happened because you sealed it before PCing it
Once you turn off the burner on your stove, it will stop applying heat (duh hehe) to the bottom of the PC which will cause the steam molecules to lose kinetic energy to their environment (the walls of the PC and walls of whatever you are PCing) and thus a decrease in pressure
As the pressure drops, the boiling point of water also drops (inside whatever you are PCing, in this case the grain bag) so that whatever excess water was inside the bag from the start will boil off from the surface. As the bag itself begins to cool its temp will "catch up" to the lowered boiling point (or condensing point now) and the water that boiled off will start to turn back into liquid, and some of that liquid will end up on the bag walls
Basically, it came mostly from the water on the surface of the grains. I know you said it passed the towel test, and I'm sure it did, but it's impossible to remove ALL water, even on the molecular level, from grains by air drying. If you leave the bag open (folded, but not sealed) then some of the moisture would evaporate out of the bag as it cooled
At least that's how I think it works. Physics is hard
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Newbie
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: meowjinx]
#26973418 - 10/07/20 08:20 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I will definitely try this out next time and seal later. Thank you for your explanation!
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seand04
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: meowjinx]
#26973438 - 10/07/20 08:35 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
meowjinx said: I believe that condensation might have happened because you sealed it before PCing it
Once you turn off the burner on your stove, it will stop applying heat (duh hehe) to the bottom of the PC which will cause the steam molecules to lose kinetic energy to their environment (the walls of the PC and walls of whatever you are PCing) and thus a decrease in pressure
As the pressure drops, the boiling point of water also drops (inside whatever you are PCing, in this case the grain bag) so that whatever excess water was inside the bag from the start will boil off from the surface. As the bag itself begins to cool its temp will "catch up" to the lowered boiling point (or condensing point now) and the water that boiled off will start to turn back into liquid, and some of that liquid will end up on the bag walls
Basically, it came mostly from the water on the surface of the grains. I know you said it passed the towel test, and I'm sure it did, but it's impossible to remove ALL water, even on the molecular level, from grains by air drying. If you leave the bag open (folded, but not sealed) then some of the moisture would evaporate out of the bag as it cooled
At least that's how I think it works. Physics is hard
I use a tube and a clamp to close up my bags in the PC. Then I put em in the SAB, nocc with a wedge of whatever I have clean then zip tie the bag shut
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meowjinx
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: seand04]
#26973582 - 10/07/20 10:29 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
meowjinx said: I believe that condensation might have happened because you sealed it before PCing it
Once you turn off the burner on your stove, it will stop applying heat (duh hehe) to the bottom of the PC which will cause the steam molecules to lose kinetic energy to their environment (the walls of the PC and walls of whatever you are PCing) and thus a decrease in pressure
As the pressure drops, the boiling point of water also drops (inside whatever you are PCing, in this case the grain bag) so that whatever excess water was inside the bag from the start will boil off from the surface. As the bag itself begins to cool its temp will "catch up" to the lowered boiling point (or condensing point now) and the water that boiled off will start to turn back into liquid, and some of that liquid will end up on the bag walls
Basically, it came mostly from the water on the surface of the grains. I know you said it passed the towel test, and I'm sure it did, but it's impossible to remove ALL water, even on the molecular level, from grains by air drying. If you leave the bag open (folded, but not sealed) then some of the moisture would evaporate out of the bag as it cooled
At least that's how I think it works. Physics is hard
I use a tube and a clamp to close up my bags in the PC. Then I put em in the SAB, nocc with a wedge of whatever I have clean then zip tie the bag shut
Nice. I tried doing bags in a SAB. It went disastrously lol
A tube clamp or folding both work because they don't create perfect seals. If a bag is sufficiently sealed it basically becomes a pressure cooker inside of a pressure cooker. The bag traps steam inside of itself just like your PC does
Edited by meowjinx (10/07/20 10:30 AM)
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seand04
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: meowjinx]
#26973634 - 10/07/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have seen people use paper clips to fold the bag.
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Newbie
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: seand04]
#26974936 - 10/08/20 05:09 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just a few more days to ensure the inside is solid then it's spawning time! Definitely gonna do more bags, I like this method. Although jar lids are still fun to make. I really enjoy the DIY about it.
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie] 1
#26984667 - 10/14/20 08:13 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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And she's colonized! I'm pasteurizing my bulk sub right now then into the monotub it goes.
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seand04
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie]
#26984990 - 10/14/20 11:56 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Very nice. I have a bag that smells like bananas. I think I am gonna have to toss it 😥
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Newbie
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: seand04]
#26986400 - 10/15/20 03:39 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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And now she's a tub. I'll let her colonize then open her up for fruiting. I finally got the polyfill dialed in to the correct density for each respective air hole.
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seand04
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie]
#26986591 - 10/15/20 08:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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You leave your tub closed to colonize before fruiting? I am mixing up the tub and then put it right into fruiting conditions. I figure that it will just keep colonizing and growing right?
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Newbie
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: seand04]
#26986910 - 10/15/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah it's just personal preference. Once it's colonized I'll open the holes up and add a casing layer.
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Nobler Hino
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie]
#26987380 - 10/15/20 04:30 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I like to double up with micro pore tape on all the holes until I see pins, then pull a layer off the top holes. Makes for great surface conditions considering my surroundings.
--------------------
   "The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me.” – Maria Sabina
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Nobler Hino]
#27035353 - 11/12/20 02:21 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Update on the tub spawned from the grow bag. Lotsa little pins popping up. I'm pleased with the results of a casing layer. I'll hafta do it more often!
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Re: Why so much condensation? [Re: Newbie]
#27040597 - 11/15/20 01:34 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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