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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26941638 - 09/18/20 02:24 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I think invading what is now called North Korea was a good idea, but I don't support the draft for that war so IDK.  The other ones were not, particularly Viet Nam and Iraq. We had to do something regarding Afghanistan, but Israeli style surgical strikes against the Taliban would have been far better than what we did there for 19 years.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: Brian Jones] * 2
    #26942588 - 09/18/20 02:31 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Putin's popularity, IMO, is primarily based on what my Russian History professor called their "need for a strong boss". They might have feared Stalin but they were proud of the world stature he brought them. I'm not saying Putin is like Stalin, but in the line of succession he is the most similar to him on the strong boss scale.




That's not a uniquely Russian need, that's the end result of a perceived loss in status. Trump tried to play the exact same card with his whole "the world is laughing at us" shtick, he's just not competent enough to back it up, unlike Putin.

Putin was the result of a few factors: the collapse of the USSR, which led to internal turmoil where those with connections stole everything that wasn't nailed down (and, in some cases, things that were nailed down...some people once stole a literal bridge), and more or less weak leadership. Yeltsin was seen as a weak leader due to his (perceived) inability to control the transformation to a capitalist economy, though in retrospect he was actually pretty effective, and the economic turmoils that resulted were an inherent part of the reorganization of the economy.

Putin quickly took control of the situation, and had wide support because of it. He was seen as a stabilizing force. Since then, Putin has also proven himself a shrewd statesman, elevating the status of Russia from a failed former empire to what is it today. This played very well with the common folk, who went from vaguely screwed by communists to very screwed by capitalists.

I would say Putin's popularity is waning lately, because he has taken some more extreme measures to stay in power and crack down on opposition. This inherently annoys people, though I still think Putin has majority support, because he is keeping shit together while turning Russia into an international player again.

As for Stalin, he's an interesting figure. I would say he had less support than he deserved, at least in my lifetime. I wasn't alive in the time of Stalin himself, and I haven't had much of a discussion with my grandparents when it comes to politics. Mostly because four of my six grandparents (divorce) are no longer around, and the ones that are are in their late 90s and not in the best of shape. One thing that did happen, though, which I find interesting is that Stalin became the scapegoat for a lot of bad shit, while many of his accomplishments were instead awarded to Lenin. Even now, a lot of Russians refer to Lenin as "Grandpa Lenin", in a familial sense. The English language doesn't have nearly as big a vocabulary as Russian, so it's kinda hard to carry the exact concept over, but I guess something like "grandpa" or "granddaddy" would be most accurate. Less formal than even "grandfather".

I've always found the cultural differences between the US and Russia very fascinating. Especially the differences in Russian and US humor. Russian humor is often much more nihilistic, and in some cases downright bizarre, maybe even offensive, to an American audience.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: Kryptos]
    #26942833 - 09/18/20 05:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

One of my teachers likened Lenin's reputation in the USSR as a combination of George Washington and Santa Claus.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26942837 - 09/18/20 05:07 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

It was just announced that we're sending troops into Syria to counter Russian aggression there.

It seems Trump is not sure which card he wants to play in these last weeks before the election, the Peacemaker or Tough Guy.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26942862 - 09/18/20 05:31 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Got a link to go with that?  I couldn't find what you just described.

I only found a link saying that we're sending six Bradley Fighting Vehicles and fewer than 100 soldiers (who are already in Syria) to an area where the US tried to block Russians from passing though a few weeks ago.

The only "aggression" I read about (so far) was two vehicles bumping into each other:




There could be more, that's why I'm asking.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26942896 - 09/18/20 05:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
One of my teachers likened Lenin's reputation in the USSR as a combination of George Washington and Santa Claus.




Russian George Washington is accurate. I think comparing him to Santa Claus is a bit of a misrepresentation based on misunderstood graphetics.

Дедушка Ленин

Would be Grandpa (informal) Lenin, and obvious patriarchal reference, just like the Founding Fathers.

Дед Мороз

Is Santa Clause, or more literally, Father Frost. Though, a more accurate translation could be argued as Grandfather (formal) Frost. Father Frost is more rooted in pagan worship that immediately preceded Christianization.

While they both carry patriarchal associations, and the base word (Дед) is common to both, they are not directly related. It's like the language version of convergent evolution.

Edit: 'Д' is a 'D' sound. Which is why Borat, stylized as Borдt always threw me off. Decent enough movie, but I couldn't help but pronounce it "Bordt"


Edited by Kryptos (09/18/20 05:54 PM)


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: Kryptos]
    #26942934 - 09/18/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I think my professor was just trying to translate his reputation into an American context. I think what he meant was Lenin was all good things to everybody. Since he successfully lead the revolution and died soon after, there was no chance for his reputation to be tarnished.

Lenin handpicked Trotsky as his successor, and stated that Comrade Stalin's methods were too harsh. But when Lenin died Trotsky was sick himself and far away, and Stalin was able to take control, largely through this connections in the government bureaucratic apparatus. Lenin once referred to him as a file clerk. Trotsky had much more of a continuous revolution approach (with a revolutionary party as the vanguard, rather than the government bureaucracy) and internationalist outlook. Stalin adapted a socialism in one country approach, which was totally antithetical to the theories of Marx, Lenin and Trotsky.

Stalin soon declared Trotsky an enemy of the state, which was not a good thing to be in the Stalinist Soviet Union. We'll never know what might have happened if Lenin lived longer, and Trotsky came next.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26942972 - 09/18/20 06:32 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Nah, his reputation was whitewashed quite a bit. Everybody quickly forgot about Lenin's Cheka. Hence the George Washington comparison is more accurate, methinks. Lots of bullshit mythology about Washington in the US. Remember the cherry tree?

I'm not certain that Trotsky was the right guy for the job. Fact is, Stalin not only saw the necessity of immediate industrialization (which likely saved the world when WWII came out), but he also saw the capitalist intervention coming soon after. Stalin's methods were harsh, yes, but he dragged Russia kicking and screaming through an industrial revolution in time to face first the Wehrmacht and second NATO.

Even if Trotsky was able to deal with the Wehrmacht, I don't think he would have been able to clamp down on capitalists quite as effectively, and the USSR would have fallen apart sooner. This would have accelerated Reagan, and we'd likely be in a much shittier position now, from a labor standpoint.


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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26943283 - 09/18/20 10:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

meltdowner said:
no existing wars.




Except for, you know, the War on Terror in Afghanistan and the US interventionism in Syria, both of which are still going on today and have had the highest death toll of any armed conflict on the planet consistently for the last five years.

Do you seriously believe that your orange daddy magically made all that nasty war go away, or are you just ignorant?



Lol what troops have died?  We have mlre men killed in chicago every weekend.  I would call it more of a skirmish or a fight.  But a war? HAH

Also trump started no new wars!  Unlike obummer.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: meltdowner]
    #26944048 - 09/19/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

meltdowner said:
Lol what troops have died?  We have mlre men killed in chicago every weekend.  I would call it more of a skirmish or a fight.  But a war? HAH




You're right, meltdowner. Not many troops have died. Good thing our boys are okay, right?

Except for the fact that the vast majority of the deaths in Afghanistan and Syria during the last three years while your precious OrangeDaddy was president were civilians. Our troops killed thousands of innocent civilians, including women and children under the supervision of the Trump administration. War these days isn't about troops fighting other troops. War these days is about dropping bombs and drone striking civilians, disrupting the geopolitical landscape of a foreign nation for personal gain. If you thought that the War on Terror was just a bunch of American troops fighting Afghani and Syrian troops, then you need to open your eyes. Most of the deaths that have occurred during the war on terror have been civilian deaths, which is disgusting.

Quote:

meltdowner said:
Also trump started no new wars!  Unlike obummer.



This isn't about Democrat or Republican, though. Yes, Obama started the American intervention in Syria. His actions led to thousands of civilian casualties. He's a war criminal. So is George W. Bush for launching the war on terror. Trump has perpetuated the war (indeed, the civilian death tolls are going back up again in Afghanistan right now), so I'd say he's guilty as well.

Then again, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. I have a feeling you will defend Trump no matter what I say.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: Nonagon Infinity] * 1
    #26944190 - 09/19/20 01:35 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Trump is actively drawing down troops in Afghanistan (8000 to 4000 by the end of the year)and Iraq (5200-3000)against the MIC. The MIC has twice tried to drag him back into Syria with chemical weapon false flags, once in Afghanistan on baseless claims.

In February Trump signed a peace treaty with the Taliban (the "democratically elected") ruling party. This signaled and end to an 18 year war.

in dealing with Iran he assassinated one general in a surgical strike. no war was started. the gulf of hormuz standoff no war was started. were Trump a neocon he would have jumped at the chance to start new wars.

Trump has put America first and gotten us out of useless foreign wars and yes as a by product less brown people are getting killed. Ted cruz, jeb, and marco rubio would never have gotten us out of these wars and it goes without saying how fucked up libya is because of clinton and obama.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: JHOVA]
    #26944201 - 09/19/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with JHOVA here based on what I currently know about the situation.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: JHOVA]
    #26944250 - 09/19/20 02:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JHOVA said:
Trump is actively drawing down troops in Afghanistan (8000 to 4000 by the end of the year)and Iraq (5200-3000)against the MIC. The MIC has twice tried to drag him back into Syria with chemical weapon false flags, once in Afghanistan on baseless claims.

In February Trump signed a peace treaty with the Taliban (the "democratically elected") ruling party. This signaled and end to an 18 year war.

in dealing with Iran he assassinated one general in a surgical strike. no war was started. the gulf of hormuz standoff no war was started. were Trump a neocon he would have jumped at the chance to start new wars.

Trump has put America first and gotten us out of useless foreign wars and yes as a by product less brown people are getting killed. Ted cruz, jeb, and marco rubio would never have gotten us out of these wars and it goes without saying how fucked up libya is because of clinton and obama.




There are more troops deployed now than there were when trump took office


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26944261 - 09/19/20 02:09 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

unironically i think Trump is more deserving of the Noble peace prize than Obama was before he started drone striking the shit out of everyone. obama was awarded the NPP for his "potential" and because of black privilege'.

Trumps accomplishments with facilitating peace treaties and normalized trade relations between (Israel and Bahrain) and (Israel and UAE) are not america first and are purely for Bibis approval rating.

The transnational press instead decides that the Noble peace prize should be ended totally just because they put hating Trump over de-escalation and normalization between nations.

which is to be expected from the journalist class always serving global interests instead of their host nation.


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OnlineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: JHOVA]
    #26946427 - 09/20/20 03:42 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------


Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!


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Onlinekoods
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: JHOVA] * 1
    #26946803 - 09/20/20 07:45 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JHOVA said:
unironically i think Trump is more deserving of the Noble peace prize than Obama was before he started drone striking the shit out of everyone. obama was awarded the NPP for his "potential" and because of black privilege'.

Trumps accomplishments with facilitating peace treaties and normalized trade relations between (Israel and Bahrain) and (Israel and UAE) are not america first and are purely for Bibis approval rating.

The transnational press instead decides that the Noble peace prize should be ended totally just because they put hating Trump over de-escalation and normalization between nations.

which is to be expected from the journalist class always serving global interests instead of their host nation.




The amount of time trump and his cult members spend whining about being treated unfairly - airing every single petty grievance - is staggering. People don’t like trump. He’s an asshole. Deal with it.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: koods]
    #26946860 - 09/20/20 08:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Its maga season and wtr are going to pack the scotus and rescind roe v wade and leave it up yo the states at least.

When the election is contested the scotus will either tie or give us the win.


--------------------
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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: koods] * 2
    #26946891 - 09/20/20 09:04 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Im people and I like Trump.  He is our asshole Mr Koodsy.  He's our asshole for 8 more years!


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I'm a Lightweight.  I like to eat like two caps at a time.


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Offlinemeltdowner
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: JHOVA]
    #26946899 - 09/20/20 09:12 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JHOVA said:
Its maga season and wtr are going to pack the scotus and rescind roe v wade and leave it up yo the states at least.

When the election is contested the scotus will either tie or give us the win.




I hope we get a real hardcore conservative in there.  Someone to start letting these whiny leftists know what REAL fascism is! 
Public schools require dresscode.  Expulsion for non compliance.  Dyed hair?  Explusion.  Tattoo?  Expulsion.  Phone on school grounds?  Expulsion.  Art is ditched, gym is mandatory.  Cant run a mile?  You stay there until you do.

English, health, patriotism and STEM are the only classes taught.  Only allowed language spoken is English.  Speak spanish on school grounds?  Expulsion.

Drug dealing = imprisonment in a dark hole for a week and 20 lashes.  Caught twice, hung in the streets.
Kill someone = firing squad of the victims family.
Rape someone = death by polearm up the ass.
Theft = 20 lashes


--------------------
I'm a Lightweight.  I like to eat like two caps at a time.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: GOP platform 2020 [Re: meltdowner]
    #26946912 - 09/20/20 09:22 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Can either you or your kid(s) run a mile?


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