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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleading" [Re: Learyfan]
    #2696904 - 05/18/04 05:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

republicans: "Yeah, we lied. What are you gonna do about it? We own your banks, and the military as well!!!"


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2696923 - 05/18/04 05:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I'm sorry. Did I miss seeing him say Bush lied somewhere in that article? Please point it out to me.




from luvdemshroom's republican spin doctor dictionary:

"misleading =! lying"


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2696948 - 05/18/04 05:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Before you make yourself look completely foolish.... read the article again. Here... I'll help.

CIA sources on Iraq were 'deliberately misleading,'

The Central Intelligence Agency (news - web sites) and other US government institutions were in some cases deliberately misled about alleged Iraqi weapons of mass destruction in the run-up to the war, Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) has acknowledged.

It turned out that the sourcing was inaccurate and wrong and, in some cases, deliberately misleading,"

Am I the only one left on the planet who can fucking read and comprehend?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (05/18/04 05:18 PM)


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2697017 - 05/18/04 05:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

that reminds me of that part in Atlas Shrugged where nobody wanted to take responsibility for the train crash, so corporate executives just kept passing the blame on down the chain of command until all the fault rested on the shoulders of some poor office messenger guy.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2697049 - 05/18/04 05:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It can remind you of anything you wish. It doesn't change the fact that Powell neither stated or implied that the Bush administration lied.

Unless you'd care to show me where it did?

Now.... what this makes me think of is giving books to the blind and expecting them to read them. The written word is not all that tricky. The only ones who could read an article that says "the Administration was mislead" and come away from that believing it says "the administration lied" are those who want so desperately for it to be so, that comprehension escapes them.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2697069 - 05/18/04 05:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

What does Powells statement imply?


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2697081 - 05/18/04 05:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)


The president was the one who presented the information to me.  I blame him. 

blaming the CIA or their sources is such a lame excuse for an excuse. 

seriously, that sounds like something that some ghetto nigga would say to me if he ripped me off on a bag: 

"Yeah, I went to my homeboy's house to get you your bag, but my friend took all the money and gave me nothing.  That dude is kinda shady.  You need to watch out for him." :rolleyes:


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Get yourself cleaned out.'


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: GazzBut]
    #2697100 - 05/18/04 05:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

That the administration got misleading info. And his statement does more than imply.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2697130 - 05/18/04 05:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The president was the one who presented the information to me. I blame him.



Blame anyone you like. The fact remains no-one has shown that Bush lied. Perhaps he did but there is no proof of that.


Quote:

blaming the CIA or their sources is such a lame excuse for an excuse.



Right. So if a family member or friend lies to you and you pass on that info.... that makes you a liar?  :lol:

Do you even think about this stuff before you click continue?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2697149 - 05/18/04 05:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Lets face it Luvvie, if it were a democrat you would be jumping all over it with gay abandon!

Its fairly obvious that a)the administration is unbelievably stupid or b)they tried to mislead people and didnt get away with it.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2697152 - 05/18/04 05:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I guess the republican ideal of "personal responsibility" doesnt extend to the president.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: GazzBut]
    #2697175 - 05/18/04 05:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It'sn only fairly obvious if your reading and comprehension skills are severly lacking.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2697187 - 05/18/04 05:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

So now Bush personally gathered the info? He personally did the intelligence work?

Weak and getting weaker.

And I'm not a republican.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2697265 - 05/18/04 05:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

OK, lets say I'm working on an assembly line.

If the dude in the stage before me fucks his job up, and I let that product through my stage, arent I responsible as well? Even if I did my stage of the manufacturing process perfectly, I still let a botched product get through my position.

and what about the person at the end of the line. His job is to check the final product and make sure that no stages in that product's manufacture were botched. If he lets that botched product through, then all 3 of us are at fault.

and what about the CEO of that company? If he lets his workers get away with turning out botched products, dont you think that the board of directors would be justified in firing him?

I just think that the blame should be all inclusive here. Whoever had a hand in those mistakes should fucking share the guilt. Its not an either/or thing. Anyone that was involved is at fault. Its called: "personal responsibility".

Of course, I dont really think it was a 'mistake' in the first place, but thats another matter entirely.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2697287 - 05/18/04 05:58 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You know Luv, you're right. I am wrong. Powell didn't say that the Bush adminstration lied in that article, but that they had been lied to. I read it wrong.

However, I still think Bush deserves a big part of the blame. The buck stops at Bush.






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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: Learyfan]
    #2697343 - 05/18/04 06:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The buck stops at Bush.




incompetant, dishonest, some combination of the two?

I personally doubt that Bush was overly concerned with the truth of reports of WMDs in Iraq - he wanted to invade, and they gave him the reason he needed.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2697364 - 05/18/04 06:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Lousy analogy.

Quote:

If the dude in the stage before me fucks his job up, and I let that product through my stage, arent I responsible as well? Even if I did my stage of the manufacturing process perfectly, I still let a botched product get through my position.



Only if you know there is a problem are you in the wrong. Let's pick a product. A car. You may be working on the left side and the problem is on the right side. You have no way of knowing. Is it still your responsibility?


Quote:

and what about the person at the end of the line. His job is to check the final product and make sure that no stages in that product's manufacture were botched. If he lets that botched product through, then all 3 of us are at fault.



In many cases more than one inspector is used. If one makes a mistake but the others do not, are all still to blame?


Quote:

and what about the CEO of that company? If he lets his workers get away with turning out botched products, dont you think that the board of directors would be justified in firing him?



Only if he repeatedly does so.


Quote:

Its not an either/or thing.



It most certainly can be. If you're washing dishes and the person drying drops one, how is that in any way your fault?


Quote:

Anyone that was involved is at fault.



Not always. It can take dozens of people to build a house. If ONE of those people puts in the wrong size door is everyone who worked on that house to blame? How can you blame the plumber because the door is wrong? How do you blame the contractor if the print is wrong?


Keep trying. Or, merely admit the article does not say or imply that Bush lied.

Edit: spelling and added the word "drying".


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (05/18/04 06:16 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: Learyfan]
    #2697399 - 05/18/04 06:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You know Luv, you're right. I am wrong. Powell didn't say that the Bush adminstration lied in that article, but that they had been lied to. I read it wrong. 



:thumbup: Kudos for saying that. Would that all were able to do so.


Quote:

However, I still think Bush deserves a big part of the blame.



Time will tell, but that has yet to be shown.



Quote:

The buck stops at Bush.



Well, as that hasn't been the case for any administration for as long as I can remember, I doubt it will happen now.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: phi1618]
    #2697426 - 05/18/04 06:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

incompetant, dishonest, some combination of the two?




Interesting, and telling, that you didn't add "just plain wrong" to your choices.

Quote:

I personally doubt that Bush was overly concerned with the truth of reports of WMDs in Iraq - he wanted to invade, and they gave him the reason he needed.



Mere speculation.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Powell: "some reasons for war were deliberately misleadi [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2697545 - 05/18/04 06:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I dunno....'deliberately' misleading implies knowledge of truth while parroting falsehoods. If bush was 'deliberately' mislead by his information sources in government, why is noone facing consequences?!


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